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Good for San Francisco

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Nov 18 20:07:18 2009

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I am almost a fanatical recycler, so this is right down my alley.
San Francisco wants to have zero waste, by 2020, finding a use for all waste.
They stepped up the anti, as they just added a new pail....the compost pail to put stuff like food waste into to send off for compost. San Fran is closer than you think to 100%, as they are already up to 72% of their garbage recycled. Hopefully other cities follow suit.

I am pretty happy with NYC already, they are more aggressive with recycling than many other cities, and more aggressive than we have it out here in Suffolk. But I like this new addition to San Fran...


http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/11/18/san-franciscos-goal-zero-waste/

San Francisco’s Goal: Zero Waste
November 18, 2009 - 12:03 PM | by: Claudia Cowan

Environmentally-sensitive San Francisco is taking aim at trash- assembling shiny green bins by the truckload to help residents, landlords and merchants comply with a new mandatory composting law.

Alongside blue and black bins for recycling and garbage, curbs are now lined with green bins for food scraps-- and, after an initial grace period, improper sorting could mean a hefty fine.

It's part of an aggressive push to cut greenhouse gas emissions and have the city sending "zero waste" to landfills or incinerators by 2020.

It sounds like a tall order, but San Francisco is already 72% of the way there-- the highest trash diversion rate of any big U.S. city. Officials say it's a matter of doing something useful with all those mineral-rich leftovers: reducing the amount of garbage generated, and therefore the need to build costly, smelly, new landfills. Equally important, composting helps clean up the air, because at landfills, decomposing food generates methane, a more toxic greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. Turning foodscraps and other organic matter into compost helps the earth, too, because it returns minerals and carbons to the soil. And farmers love it, saying San Francisco's "four course" compost is better than "miracle grow" thanks to all the diverse nutrients that went into making it --- especially foodscraps from restaurants: think crab shells from Fisherman's Wharf, pasta from North Beach, shrimp fried rice from Chinatown, etc.

The city's trash agency's new name, Recology, and some very cool 3-D graphics showing recyclable trash on the trucks, all aim to get people to look at garbage in a new way-- as a resource that should be valued... not automatically "trashed."

And it seems to be working. Recology says composting has grown from 400 to 500 tons a day in the past year, a sign San Franciscans are ready to give a very green light... to "zero waste."

-Claudia Cowan


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(525943)

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Nov 18 20:15:41 2009, in response to Good for San Francisco, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Nov 18 20:07:18 2009.

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Sounds better than pocket mulch.

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(526118)

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by Charles G on Thu Nov 19 07:55:21 2009, in response to Good for San Francisco, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Nov 18 20:07:18 2009.

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Switzerland has an interesting approach.

You can recycle for free. Throwing out garbage costs money. The santitation trucks will only collect garbage that is placed in special bags sold by the local government.

A 60L (about 15 gallons) garbage bag costs about $2. So you're welcome to throw that plastic bottle or cardboard box in the garbage if you're willing to pay through the nose to have your garbage taken away.

Of course, you never know what the secondary effects of change will be. Once this was implemented, the Swiss started recycling more and the actual garbage being incinerated decreased. The incinerators were less efficient below full capacity -- so now they import garbage from Eastern Europe. So revenue is way up, but pollution levels are the same. At least the trash moves by rail, like almost all cargo does here.




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(526123)

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Nov 19 08:06:11 2009, in response to Good for San Francisco, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Nov 18 20:07:18 2009.

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Great! Once we started composting at home, we started throwing out about one tall kitchen bag of garbage every three weeks (not including cat litter and diapers).

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(526124)

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Nov 19 08:07:14 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by Charles G on Thu Nov 19 07:55:21 2009.

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The side effect of something like that would appear to be a lot more illegal dumping. That is something I wouldn't want increased.
For example, when I first moved to Suffolk, my neighborhood didn't have garbage collection yet. You had to bring your garbage to the landfill, which I did once a week. Obviously, that was a pain in the rump. You saw a lot more garbage and furniture, etc dumped in the woods along roads where there wasn't much development. You don't really see that anymore now that we have "free" garbage collection, which we have had now for a long time.

You can still bring your garbage to the landfill too, if you want, or if you have a lot. And anything recyclable is free, even if you bring it to the landfill.

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Nov 19 08:11:35 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by Charles G on Thu Nov 19 07:55:21 2009.

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You can recycle for free. Throwing out garbage costs money.

Makes sense. Picking up garbage, transporting it, and dumping it in an landfill costs money, but recyclables are sold. In Rhode Island, cities and towns actually get an annual rebate from the Resource Recovery Corporation based on the amount of recycleables collected.

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Nov 19 08:12:28 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Nov 19 08:06:11 2009.

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I am the same way. All my table scraps, etc go into the garden. My cats go outside, so I don't have a litter box (they are like dogs, they stand at the door when the "have to go"), I don't have a baby right now, so no diapers..... All my metal, glass, and plastic goes into the recycling pail. And all my paper goes out on paper days.
If I have a shopping bag or two of garbage every week, that's a lot.

I am one of the few int he neighborhood that actually has more recycling out on recycling day, than garbage on regular garbage day!

Some "Rightest", eh.... :)

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by docstox on Thu Nov 19 08:32:09 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Nov 19 08:12:28 2009.

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This is just good policy that goes beyond any idealogy

I raise organic vegetables and use all food waste, especially from my daily "juicing" as organic compost for the garden.We have a good recycling policy here in my town so all plastic, metal, glass, paper and cardboard goes that route.

Taking this all beyond recycling, I also am a believer that reducing one's carbon footprint is good policy as well.I have a 75 by 200 property that I maintain myself using a battery powered lawnmower,weed whacker and electric blower.I junked my gas clothes dryer when it blew out and use a clothesline or lines strung in the basement to dry clothes.I use only box fans and ceiling fans to cool in the summer, no AC and set the thermostat at 60 at night and 65 during the day.I drive a vehicle with a small 3.3 liter V6 engine. I get away with all this because I am not married,LOL!I challange all the liberals who support cap and trade to institute my policy,LOL!

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by Charles G on Thu Nov 19 09:38:50 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Nov 19 08:07:14 2009.

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The side effect of something like that would appear to be a lot more illegal dumping.

Such behavior just isn't tolerated here. It just isn't the Swiss way. When they do find a dumped bag of trash, it is rumored that they'll go through it like the folks on CSI to figure out who/where the source is.

I don't know what the fines are for illegal dumping, but many other fines will knock your socks off, so I suspect they'd be severe.

Simple speeding -- say the equivalent of 15 MPH over the speed limit on a highway -- has fines that are similar to those in the US. For excessive speeding -- say the equivalent of 50 MPH through a school zone, or 40 MPH over the speed limit on a highway -- fines are assessed as a percentage of your annual income and have been known to be as high as 10 or 15%.

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Nov 19 09:43:20 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by docstox on Thu Nov 19 08:32:09 2009.

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While I am fanatical about garbage and recycling, I don't go as far as you with the other stuff. I make very little garbage, and recycle what I do make for the most part, but I am not going to go the way of hanging clothes outside (I don't have the time for that). I do use AC on the hottest days, and am not changing that....and I do drive an SUV which I am not giving up.

I cut my grass with a riding lawn mower (I have a few acres to maintain), and a gas weedwacker....although I don't use a leaf blower. I instead hand rake all the leaves into the lawn out from under the bushes and stuff, and at this time of year weedwack the hell out of the flower and vegetable garden which pulverizes everything....then rake that into the grass too, and then finall drive over all the leaves and garden debris with the lawn mower which mulches them into the grass (so I have no leaf or garden debris either). I just finished yesterday...all the leaves and gardens are cleaned out, it's all mulched into the grass, and I don't have one pile of debris or bag of leaves, it's all gone.

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by AlM on Thu Nov 19 09:55:38 2009, in response to Good for San Francisco, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Nov 18 20:07:18 2009.

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The one place I draw the line on recycling is what I would call contaminated recyclables. For example, what is an oil-stained pizza box? It's not food, but you shouldn't put it in with paper. Sometimes I think plain old trash is the best category. But it should be relatively minimal in volume.


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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Nov 19 10:04:18 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by Charles G on Thu Nov 19 09:38:50 2009.

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uch behavior just isn't tolerated here. It just isn't the Swiss way. When they do find a dumped bag of trash, it is rumored that they'll go through it like the folks on CSI to figure out who/where the source is.

But you KNOW that will happen here if they ever tried that. People dump crap now already.....and we have "free" garbage collection.
And really, how can you tell who's "mattress" or "couch" it is when it's dumped in the woods.
As for going through it, you don't always find "addresses" in garbage, although yes, you can occasionally. That's how I used to handle the NYC recycling law for my 6 family building I have there. While most of the tenants were great about the recycling law, I got a fine a few times from someone putting a non-recyclable item in the recycling, or more so, recyclables with the trash. I asked the asked the super to save the bag of trash it was found in, and traced it back to a particular tenant, and handed them the city summons. Never had a problem again.
And in a small building, it can be found out by process of elimination too, by ruling out "who" the other garbage is from, or what else is mixed in a bag. For example, the tenant who was causing the problem also has a dog (the only one in the building).....and I found a plastic wrapper for dog treats in the sunbject bag of trash.....smoking gun....

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Nov 19 10:12:42 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by AlM on Thu Nov 19 09:55:38 2009.

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I put my pizza boxes in with the paper recycling. It gets disolved down anyway when they do the process. Now if it has leftover pizza slices in it, that's another story....

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Nov 19 10:33:25 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Nov 19 10:12:42 2009.

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You throw out the pizza and put the box in the recycling.

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(526156)

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by docstox on Thu Nov 19 11:11:00 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Nov 19 09:43:20 2009.

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091118/us_nm/us_usa_laundry

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Nov 19 11:46:46 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Nov 19 10:33:25 2009.

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Yes, that's what I do.

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by Fred G on Thu Nov 19 12:15:31 2009, in response to Good for San Francisco, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Nov 18 20:07:18 2009.

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Good for them. I do same as you and recycle all I can, plus compost.

your pal,
Fred

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(526182)

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Nov 19 12:34:43 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by docstox on Thu Nov 19 11:11:00 2009.

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This is when I think it goes to far. And in the front yard no less. No one should have to look at her bras and panties, or her husbands jockstrap hanging in front of her house. It's my right not to look at that crap too.
I don't care what she does in her backyard though.

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Nov 19 12:42:32 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Nov 19 10:04:18 2009.

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But you KNOW that will happen here if they ever tried that. People dump crap now already.....and we have "free" garbage collection.
And really, how can you tell who's "mattress" or "couch" it is when it's dumped in the woods.


Video surveillance in known dumping areas is getting common here.

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(526185)

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Nov 19 12:47:41 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by AlM on Thu Nov 19 09:55:38 2009.

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The one place I draw the line on recycling is what I would call contaminated recyclables. For example, what is an oil-stained pizza box? It's not food, but you shouldn't put it in with paper. Sometimes I think plain old trash is the best category. But it should be relatively minimal in volume.

Our local recycling ordinances say pizza boxes are not recyclable. I usually use discretion, since some come lined with wax paper and does not absorb the oil.

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by Charles G on Thu Nov 19 12:48:15 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Nov 19 10:04:18 2009.

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It would take a change in attitude for the US -- The Swiss are different that way. When they see you carrying a mattress into the woods, they will call the police who will be there before you come out.

This is wonderful for infractions everyone dislikes, like dumping garbage in the woods, but those same folks will call the police when you've left your car running in the no stopping zone in front of your building for 5 minutes -- and the police will be there before you come out. (Of course, in NY your car would be stolen if you left it running and unattended for 5 minutes, so I guess a fine is the better of the two choices).



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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by Charles G on Thu Nov 19 12:49:55 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Nov 19 11:46:46 2009.

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Come on Chris. A reply of "Really? Thanks, now I know what to do with the 14 pizza boxes with 26 slices of pizza that have been lying around my apartment for the past three months" was clearly warranted there.

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Nov 19 12:58:36 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Nov 19 12:42:32 2009.

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Of course, but you can't have cameras on every stretch of road where there is a vacant lot or parcel. You KNOW people dump, and you know they would dump even more if people had to "pay" to get rid of their garbage.

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Nov 19 13:01:05 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by Charles G on Thu Nov 19 12:49:55 2009.

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I have a small 6 family house, you'd be surprised what people leave in with their "recycling". Slices of pizza may be one of the more minor things put in for "recycling"....

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by docstox on Thu Nov 19 13:13:13 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Nov 19 12:34:43 2009.

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You can string a line in the basement to dry out the offensive articles in question.

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by Easy on Thu Nov 19 13:14:12 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by Fred G on Thu Nov 19 12:15:31 2009.

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I'm the outlier here. I don't recycle anything and I don't compost. However my city, like most cities in California recycles the state mandated percentage at the local drop off centers.

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Nov 19 13:15:58 2009, in response to Good for San Francisco, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Nov 18 20:07:18 2009.

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I like it too, except that they've made it mandatory. That's where you lose me.

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Nov 19 13:16:40 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by docstox on Thu Nov 19 13:13:13 2009.

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That's not putting it on the front lawn as was in the article. Why would anyone care what she does in her basement?

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Nov 19 13:22:14 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by Easy on Thu Nov 19 13:14:12 2009.

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You only have "drop off centers" for recycling? That's not a great way to "get people to recycle".
I like NYC's approach. It's not "too" stringent, but it's comprehensive enough to get people to do it, and actually really reduce trash.
I like NYC's better than what I have out in Suffolk too. We have a less stringent policy in Brookhaven Township where I live (garbage is done on the town level, not county). It's "mandatory", but it's not really enforced. You don't see recycling pails in front of every house like you do in NYC. A lot of people don't do it, and even less so on paper week.

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Nov 19 14:09:16 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Nov 19 13:22:14 2009.

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You only have "drop off centers" for recycling? That's not a great way to "get people to recycle".

Chicago was like that until recently, too. As of last year, there is finally curbside (er, alleyside) recycling in a handful of neighborhoods.

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Nov 19 14:48:41 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Nov 19 14:09:16 2009.

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I, who hates waste....don't even think I would bother with recycling if I had to save everything and drive it somewhere.

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by Fred G on Thu Nov 19 15:03:51 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Nov 19 12:34:43 2009.

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We all had clotheslines and clothes dryer things like this:



but in the backyard. Not the frontyard as that's tacky. Besides why do I wanna show everyone my laundry?

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by Fred G on Thu Nov 19 15:13:12 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Nov 19 13:22:14 2009.

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They've made it so easy here with single stream recycling. It's one bin for everything.



your pal,
Fred

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Nov 19 15:14:27 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by Fred G on Thu Nov 19 15:13:12 2009.

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Even paper? We can mix glass, metal, and plastic together, but paper is seperate. What's the green pail for in the photo?

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by Easy on Thu Nov 19 15:37:27 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Nov 19 13:22:14 2009.

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Nah. Remember that I'm in California and we're ahead of the curve! ;)

California has a requirement that all cities recycle a certain percentage of their trash. I can't remember the number but it's like 50-60%. What many cities do is that they take 50-60% (or whatever the number is) of their total trash to large recycling centers where all of the recyclable materials are separated from the trash before heading to the landfill. Often these centers are at the landfill. In that case you just throw all of your trash in one bin like the old days.

Some cities still do the thing where they give you separate containers for different recyclables. Some do both the mass separation and the individual recycling (likely why SF is so high). It's been this way out here for about 15 years or more.

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by Fred G on Thu Nov 19 15:56:46 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Nov 19 15:14:27 2009.

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Yes, paper, cardboard, plastic, glass, metal, all in one.

The green bin is for regular garbage.

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by Easy on Thu Nov 19 16:00:33 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by Fred G on Thu Nov 19 15:13:12 2009.

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That's two bins. We have one bin for everything.

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by Easy on Thu Nov 19 16:00:35 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by Fred G on Thu Nov 19 15:13:12 2009.

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That's two bins. We have one bin for everything.

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by Fred G on Thu Nov 19 16:03:08 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by Easy on Thu Nov 19 16:00:33 2009.

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The green bin is for straight garbage, not recyclables.

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by Easy on Thu Nov 19 16:06:27 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by Fred G on Thu Nov 19 16:03:08 2009.

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I know, but we have one bin for garbage and recyclables.

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by Easy on Thu Nov 19 16:09:18 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Nov 19 14:48:41 2009.

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I wasn't clear. I don't drop it off. The trash guys that haul it away take everyones trash to the recycling centers. But some cities are different. Long Beach still has the bins where people have to separate their own recyclables.

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by Easy on Thu Nov 19 16:11:24 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Nov 19 15:14:27 2009.

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Do you know why paper is separate? Because most of it goes to the landfill anyway. The supply of recyclable paper far, far exceeds the demand.

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by Easy on Thu Nov 19 16:11:26 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Nov 19 15:14:27 2009.

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Do you know why paper is separate? Because most of it goes to the landfill anyway. The supply of recyclable paper far, far exceeds the demand.

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by Easy on Thu Nov 19 16:14:36 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Nov 19 10:12:42 2009.

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I think that the "process" for pizza boxes might be to send them to the closest landfill or municipal waste combustor. Either way I can't imagine that oils would dissolve. Most likely separated.

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by Fred G on Thu Nov 19 17:00:21 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by Easy on Thu Nov 19 16:06:27 2009.

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Yeah, we used to do that before we recycled lol.

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Nov 19 17:55:09 2009, in response to Good for San Francisco, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Nov 18 20:07:18 2009.

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The only problem with these, is if you aren't rich like Pelosi(zero waste yet she's still in office?), there's not enough room for a half a dozen bins.

Second of all. All these cities with the recycling programs, have crappy and inefficient gov't run waste collection pick up. So when you have no space, they don't pick it up in time.

I always recycle when I have the opportunity, but I like my pay any trash collector I like, and they come by as frequently as need be. They even do the recycling programs more often than mandated.
Yea, if i had a used trash truck, I could operate tomorrow.

NY and San Fran, I'll be out on the street cuz I won't be allowed to. America.

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by docstox on Thu Nov 19 18:43:34 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by Fred G on Thu Nov 19 15:13:12 2009.

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We have that here in Mahwah NJ, also.Before that, you needed bins for clear glass, green glass, brown glass, plastic, and metal.It was way too much work and storage, and, I confess,I did not recycle until it went to the single stream system a few years ago.

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Nov 19 18:48:03 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Nov 19 13:15:58 2009.

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Parts of Canada goes through your trash instead. They got something called bag crushers.

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Nov 19 18:54:12 2009, in response to Re: Good for San Francisco, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Nov 19 10:12:42 2009.

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"Now if it has leftover pizza slices in it, that's another story.... "

Also known as a special surprise for some hungry trashman.

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Re: Good for San Francisco

Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Nov 19 18:55:31 2009, in response to Good for San Francisco, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Nov 18 20:07:18 2009.

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I wonder if the city gets revenue for selling the materials while taxing you to have it picked up.

double-dipping.

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