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| Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better (465079) | |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Jun 22 23:19:46 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by SMAZ on Mon Jun 22 23:17:29 2009. I only meant the people that come here for care, not the entire population. I really like Canada. I could definitely live there if it weren't so cold. |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Jun 22 23:20:13 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 12:57:34 2009. (And yes, his plan would ultimately lead to that).The only way it would ultimately lead to that is if consumers found the public option to be superior. |
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| (465577) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Jun 22 23:21:19 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by SMAZ on Mon Jun 22 23:18:44 2009. Personally my health care seems to get worse and cost more every year. I can no longer communicate with the doctors in my plan because they barely speak English. Maybe that's an LA thing. |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Jun 22 23:22:47 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 12:57:34 2009. Lots of Americans go to other countries for their health care as well. It works both ways. Buying prescription drugs in Canada and Mexico is big business. |
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| (465579) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 23:24:04 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by SMAZ on Mon Jun 22 23:18:44 2009. Because spending $1 TRILLION or $1.6 Trillion, depending on the plan's acceptance, and adding that to our already TOTALLY OUT OF CONTROL spending that is going on under this administration is NOT the answer for something that may or may not fix the healthcare situation.Who and how is this going to be paid for? What is Obama going to do, "print" more money? Don't you realize we are already in danger of some of the worst inflation we have seen in decades? You can't just keep printing money, or borrowing money and our children's and grandchildren's future for this either. Where is the money coming from to pat for 1-2 TRILLION dollars of healthcare? |
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| (465582) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Jun 22 23:26:20 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 23:24:04 2009. Inflation will make it easier to pay back the money we owe to China. They are already screwed and could be screwed worse. |
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| (465583) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 23:26:31 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by Easy on Mon Jun 22 23:21:19 2009. And if you think that is bad now, just wait until it's nationalized. Have you ever tried to call some government agencies or bureaucracies?Ask some vets how well the VA hospitals and healthcare is run. |
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| (465585) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 23:29:13 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by Easy on Mon Jun 22 23:22:47 2009. Yes, I do understand that a lot of prescription drugs come from Canada... But doesn't mean that it would be better after spending up to 2 trillion dollars on this. Who is paying for that? Where is the money coming from? And government handling of healthcare has been far from handled well. Just ask a vet trying to get care through the VA. |
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| (465586) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Jun 22 23:30:02 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 23:26:31 2009. There will still be private insurance. It's just that if I choose that then I will have to pay twice. |
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| (465587) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 23:30:05 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by Easy on Mon Jun 22 23:26:20 2009. So we are praying for severe inflation under Obama? |
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| (465588) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Jun 22 23:32:23 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by David Fairthorne on Mon Jun 22 15:23:55 2009. Yes. Our dysfunctional health care system is a major drag on our economy. Explaining to people from other countries that Chrysler and GM went bankrupt because of "retiree health care costs" brings stares of disbelief. |
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| (465589) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Jun 22 23:32:46 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 23:30:05 2009. I don't pray. And I worry more about unemployment (we're over 12% in California) than I do about inflation. If I don't have a job what else is there? |
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| (465590) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Jun 22 23:34:22 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by SMAZ on Mon Jun 22 23:32:23 2009. They had ridiculous contracts with the unions. Workers that were laid off were paid full salaries for something like 2 years if they didn't find work! And partial salaries for years after that. |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Jun 22 23:39:13 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 19:02:39 2009. I have little faith in the government to run medical facilities, and it's not based on inexperience.And as we all know, Obama is proposing to nationalize all US medial facilities.  |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jun 22 23:40:41 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by SMAZ on Mon Jun 22 23:39:13 2009. Self portrait? |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 23:41:04 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by Easy on Mon Jun 22 23:30:02 2009. Yes, where now you have a choice, THEN you will be paying twice, and FOR all these other people that aren't paying. |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 23:42:44 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by Easy on Mon Jun 22 23:34:22 2009. And that's the part where HE will give you blank stares. |
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| (465600) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Jun 22 23:45:07 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 23:42:44 2009. Why would anybody look for work if they got their full salary for doing nothing? Especially when the only job that could possibly pay them as much as they used to make was the one that laid them off. |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 23:49:56 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by Easy on Mon Jun 22 23:45:07 2009. I was agreeing with you....he forgot to mention the union contracts, which were a part of the collapse, which he tried to blame just on health care (which was also a part of those union contracts). |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Jun 22 23:55:27 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 23:49:56 2009. Yeah I know. Health care could be a big part of it, although I'm guessing that people that were laid off also benefited from the free health care for many years. |
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| (465615) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 23 00:10:06 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 21:36:37 2009. Where are your stats from, and what was the sample they used.Include A Public Insurance Option |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 23 00:43:26 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 23:24:04 2009. Who and how is this going to be paid for?The money will be more then payed for by the extra economic growth from business and consumer savings that would come from such a system and that would be put back into the economy. I don't even know why the Dems are talking about possible tax hikes to pay for it. They would be mostly unnecessary. It would be real trickle-up economics. Leaving the system as is will insure bankruptcy of most govts, businesses and private citizens. |
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| (465632) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 23 00:45:55 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by Easy on Mon Jun 22 23:21:19 2009. Except for the speaking English part it's a national problem. Growth in health care costs exceed inflation and wage gains by a large margin. If people were to pay for such yearly tax hikes as they do for health care spending there would be a revolution. |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 23 00:48:26 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 23:26:31 2009. Ask some vets how well the VA hospitals and healthcare is run.It's run great actually. |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 23 00:49:28 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by Easy on Mon Jun 22 23:30:02 2009. It's just that if I choose that then I will have to pay twice.No you wouldn't. It's either one or the other that you can choose. It's not single-payer. |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 23 00:53:43 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by Easy on Mon Jun 22 23:34:22 2009. They had ridiculous contracts with the unions.The ridiculous contracts wouldn't be needed if we didn't have a ridiculous health care system. Do CAW GM and Chrysler workers have "retiree health care" in their contracts? Why do you think they don't? |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by Easy on Tue Jun 23 01:35:02 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 23 00:49:28 2009. I didn't know that was the plan. But considering that many people that don't have health care don't have it because they can't afford it. And further considering that they will have it under the government plan, who is paying for them? |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 23 01:44:11 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by Easy on Tue Jun 23 01:35:02 2009. But considering that many people that don't have health care don't have it because they can't afford it. And further considering that they will have it under the government plan, who is paying for them?Employer mandates, cost savings from the current system, the tax cuts on the rich that expire in 2011 and possibly taxing health insurance benefits that exceed $13000 a year (except for those in union contracts which will be grandfathered in). It means that McDonalds and Wal-Mart will either insure their workers or pay a payroll tax to the govt. |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Jun 23 01:47:35 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 23 01:44:11 2009. Name some tax cuts for the rich.I'm still waiting to see the 2010 tax schedule. It's a shame that health benefits will be taxed. More taxes seems to be the goal. |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 23 01:54:27 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Jun 23 01:47:35 2009. Name some tax cuts for the rich.The 2001 and 2003 Bush tax cuts. |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Jun 23 01:56:55 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 23 01:54:27 2009. But what are they? Name them, and explain how they benefit the wealthy. |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 23 02:11:25 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Jun 23 01:56:55 2009. Over $2 TRILLION (more with interest on the debt) worth in income, capital gains, dividends, estate tax cuts since 2001. That's a pretty good benefit for them. And that's just off the top of my head.What we got in return is the worst economic meltdown since the Great Depression. |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Jun 23 02:16:19 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 23 02:11:25 2009. Try raising the capital gains tax again, and watch how quick people pull their money from the market. I wouldn't play the market at a 30% tax rate.Estate tax cuts are fine. Income taxes are already high for the rich. Someone living in NYC is already filling out three tax forms. A higher earner is already paying 50% of his/her income living in NYC. How much more do you want? |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 23 04:35:51 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 23:26:31 2009. Ask some vets how well the VA hospitals and healthcare is run.It's pretty good if you actually asked some vets. Walter Reed hospital was a fiasco, but that's not the total VA picture. Again, actually ask an actual vet and you'll find the care is pretty good. your pal, Fred |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 23 06:01:00 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 23:29:13 2009. <>i>Just ask a vet trying to get care through the VA.Yes you should ask a couple, maybe a few. your pal, Fred |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 23 06:19:17 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 23 06:01:00 2009. When a VA hospital screws up, it's national news. When the one around the block from you does, it gets buried. :( |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 23 06:53:42 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 23 00:10:06 2009. "Page not found", but I see "editorial" in your link, so it sounds like it wouldn't mean much anyway. |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 23 06:58:02 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 23 00:43:26 2009. Yes, in a Democrat's wet dream that will happen. |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 23 07:01:18 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Jun 23 02:16:19 2009. Don't mind him, he's just having a far left wet dream. |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 23 07:03:29 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 23 06:53:42 2009. LOL, how do you know the "editorial" doesn't have a link to a chart or some statistics?your pal, Fred |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 23 07:20:51 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 23 07:03:29 2009. I wouldn't know, as the link doesn't work. |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jun 23 08:27:04 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 23 00:43:26 2009. I don't even know why the Dems are talking about possible tax hikes to pay for it. They would be mostly unnecessary. It would be real trickle-up economics.You're sounding like a Republican. Nothing in economics works that way. Cut taxes by $1 and the added economic activity doesn't increase taxes by $1, no matter what some people here would say. It only adds a moderate fraction of $1. Cut business and personal expenses for medical care by $1, and again, tax revenues don't increase by more than a moderate fraction of $1. Anything else, as I believe George Bush put it so well, is voodoo economics. |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jun 23 08:29:38 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 23:26:31 2009. I have asked, since you seem to think that anecdotal evidence is useful in that discussion. My father-in-law was very happy with his VA hospital care.And health care isn't going to be nationalized, even if the blogs and radio shows claim that that is the administration's plan. |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jun 23 08:36:17 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Jun 23 02:16:19 2009. Someone living in NYC is already filling out three tax forms.That's odd. I've lived in NYC for eyars and I only fill out 2 tax forms. |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by BMTLines on Tue Jun 23 08:38:50 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by SMAZ on Mon Jun 22 21:08:12 2009. You mean take them to...the government?Wouldn't a private small claims court be cheaper and more efficient? LOL - my point is you can't take government agencies to small claims court. Who do you take the government to without spending thousands on an attorney? You essentially have recourse when a private company screws you but it is very hard to sue a government agency that screws you. |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by BMTLines on Tue Jun 23 08:46:04 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by AlM on Tue Jun 23 08:36:17 2009. 50 years ago that was true - At one time the City tax was on a separate form from the state tax which is why some W2's still come with a "city or local" copy that generally is rarely used.As for today - A city worker who lives outside the 5 boroughs may be required to fill out an NYC-1127 so for them three forms are required |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Jun 23 08:57:23 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Jun 23 01:56:55 2009. But what are they? Name them, and explain how they benefit the wealthy.The Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001 (EGTRRA) Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003 (JGTRRA) |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by BMTLines on Tue Jun 23 08:57:26 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by AlM on Tue Jun 23 08:36:17 2009. 50 years ago that was true - At one time the City tax was on a separate form from the state tax which is why some W2's still come with a "city or local" copy that generally is rarely used.As for today - A city worker who lives outside the 5 boroughs may be required to fill out an NYC-1127 so for them three forms are required |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jun 23 09:11:13 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by BMTLines on Tue Jun 23 08:46:04 2009. 50 years ago that was trueLess than 50 years ago, even. I remember filling out the NYC form long ago. But he was using the present tense and referring to people living in NYC. |
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Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jun 23 09:13:09 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Jun 23 01:56:55 2009. explain how they benefit the wealthyBy reducing the income tax percentage rate on the top bracket. Clearly that allows the wealthy to pay less in federal income tax. Of course, some could argue that this does not benefit the wealthy, but I don't think you're one who would make that argument. |
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