|
|
| Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better (465079) | |
 |
|
| Home > OTChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
|
|
Page 1 of 7 |
|
|
| (465079) | |
Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jun 21 21:28:28 2009 Robert Gibbs had trouble naming one country that has better healthcare than the United States. But then he continiued to say that if you spoke to some people from one of those countries he had trouble naming, that they would say they are happy with the healthcare system in their country. But remember, he can't name the countries those people would come from, but he's pretty sure they like their healthcare system. Gibbs is a laugh a minute! He's the best! |
|
|
| (465097) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jun 21 21:57:23 2009, in response to Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jun 21 21:28:28 2009. Surprised he didn't say "Cuba". Guess he knows it's all propaganda when it comes to that country . . . |
|
|
| (465099) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jun 21 22:00:20 2009, in response to Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jun 21 21:28:28 2009. It doesn't seem to matter in terms of public opinion.Based on surveys.... The following are concurred with by a great majority: 1A. Health insurance costs are too high. 2A. Private health insurance administrative costs are too high, e.g., up to to 30 cents on each dollar. The following seems correct to most: 1B. A public health insurance plan (or plans) should be supported. 2B. There ought not to be a penalty for failing to carry health insurance. 3B. People should be able to purchase private health insurance of their choice. 4B. Health insurance benefits should not be taxed. ---- Since the Democrats' plan contradicts 2B and 4B, I don't think that it will be adopted. (4B, as I recall, was also contradicted by Senator McCain and Clinton, but supported during the campaign by then-Senator Obama). Going forward, I think that we will first have to address health insurance costs, which means addressing the consensus points 1A and 2A. The Democrats' plan attempts to do so via dropping 2B and 4B, but in my view this makes their plan politically DOA unless they can show that costs really will decrease substantially. I have not seen that demonstration. I think that the bipartisan compromise bill, the so-called Wyden-Bennett bill (Healthy Americans Act) is also a political non-starter unless it makes a similar demonstration since it also contradicts 2B and 4B; for the uninitiated, it also contradicts 2A, which is the main difference with the Democrats' plan. |
|
|
| (465104) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jun 21 22:06:23 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jun 21 22:00:20 2009. Perhaps health insurance is the problem. Retail costs for medical procedures should not be so high.(BTW, off this topic, but how good or bad would the interstate highway system be if the private sector built it?) |
|
|
| (465119) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Jun 21 22:42:16 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jun 21 22:06:23 2009. I think the Interstates would be worse. As an (admittedly subjective) example, you should have seen the Cooper bus lines here in Queens just before the MTA took them over to complete MTA Bus. The buses were in abysmal condition, and the published timetables were mere suggestions. More than one Jamaica Buses operator told me Cooper stopped purchasing parts and/or making major repairs several months before the MTA took his companies over. That's an extreme case, but it does illustrate what big private sector businesses will try to get away with... |
|
|
| (465125) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by Easy on Sun Jun 21 22:50:02 2009, in response to Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jun 21 21:28:28 2009. The question had nothing to do with which countries have better health care than the US. You need to listen again. |
|
|
| (465127) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Jun 21 22:51:42 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Jun 21 22:42:16 2009. Under MTA Bus, they are still treated like stepchildren. |
|
|
| (465133) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jun 21 22:56:33 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jun 21 22:06:23 2009. Retail costs for medical procedures should not be so high.Not sure how those costs could be reduced, though, unless the state literally sets prices, which is of course massive intervention beyond anything it's ever done in that sphere. |
|
|
| (465139) | |
interstates Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jun 21 22:59:04 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jun 21 22:06:23 2009. (BTW, off this topic, but how good or bad would the interstate highway system be if the private sector built it?)Interesting question. Depends on how I cash out the verb 'built', I guess. Weren't private sector firms used in construction? Or do you mean: what if the state had left the whole interstate system to the private sector to plan and then execute? |
|
|
| (465141) | |
Re: interstates Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Jun 21 23:00:11 2009, in response to interstates Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jun 21 22:59:04 2009. The latter in all likelihood, where private enterprise planned and owned the highway. I'm not sure it would be for the best. Because the highway would be taxed via property taxes, improvements would be discouraged. |
|
|
| (465185) | |
Re: interstates Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 04:30:27 2009, in response to Re: interstates Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Jun 21 23:00:11 2009. Any sort of transportation is very hard to have in the private sector as there is very little room for profitability in it. Totally different sort of situation. |
|
|
| (465186) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 04:36:49 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by Easy on Sun Jun 21 22:50:02 2009. I am afraid you are mistaken. The question was "it was claimed there are some countries where nationalized health care works pretty well, do you know which countries that would be"? And he couldn't answer that question. He was prompted to say "Britain and Canada" by the reporter, and threw in "maybe France too". He then went on to say that if he knew which countries they were, he was pretty sure the people of these supposed countries probabaly liked their health care system like those in the US liked theirs".Okay Mr Gibbs, that answered the question.....not. |
|
|
| (465192) | |
Re: interstates Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by Fred G on Mon Jun 22 06:24:43 2009, in response to interstates Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jun 21 22:59:04 2009. There would be a toll plaza every mile, probably.your pal, Fred |
|
|
| (465193) | |
Re: interstates Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by Fred G on Mon Jun 22 06:43:23 2009, in response to Re: interstates Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by Fred G on Mon Jun 22 06:24:43 2009. I forgot to mention the wall-to-wall billboards and neon.your pal, Fred |
|
|
| (465198) | |
Re: interstates Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 08:16:03 2009, in response to Re: interstates Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by Fred G on Mon Jun 22 06:43:23 2009. Haha, yup, it's the only way it could have been profitable privately. |
|
|
| (465202) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 22 08:22:31 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Jun 21 22:42:16 2009. As an (admittedly subjective) example, you should have seen the Cooper bus lines here in Queens just before the MTA took them over to complete MTA Bus. The buses were in abysmal condition, and the published timetables were mere suggestions. More than one Jamaica Buses operator told me Cooper stopped purchasing parts and/or making major repairs several months before the MTA took his companies over. That's an extreme case, but it does illustrate what big private sector businesses will try to get away with...Bad example. The private bus companies were guaranteed a profit by NYCDOT and had no incentive to provide adequate service. |
|
|
| (465203) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 22 08:26:57 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jun 21 22:06:23 2009. (BTW, off this topic, but how good or bad would the interstate highway system be if the private sector built it?)It would be less extensive, and every highway would be a toll road. If you also want to take government regulation out of the mix, we would have 8 foot wide lanes, no shoulders, no lighting, possibly no striping, and advertising everywhere. Ramps would probably be about a 7% grade. |
|
|
| (465206) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 08:40:52 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 22 08:26:57 2009. If you also want to take government regulation out of the mix, we would have 8 foot wide lanes, no shoulders, no lighting, possibly no striping, and advertising everywhere. Ramps would probably be about a 7% grade.While I don't see how private enterprise would be possible running the highways, that said, your scenario isn't a given either. While yes, there would probably be advertising everywhere and tolls(how else would it spin a profit to make it possible for private sector), there is no evidence whatsoever that there would be no safety considerations on these roads making them "8 foot wide, no striping, or dangerous grades on ramps, or striping". Most private business has standards of safety, and yes, perhaps some regulation would be required too. For example, safety features were put in cars, long before Obama took over the car companies. Food business has safety standards, etc. The same would be true for Highway in private. |
|
|
| (465207) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 08:45:40 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 08:40:52 2009. I forgot to address the lighting, which I was going to. As for lighting, I think it is total overkill on many roads, and a waste of energy too. For example, I think the lighting is way too close together on highways. There is no need night needs to be made into day. It's light pollution.On many roads it's not necessary at all. For example, the Sunrise in Suffolk from Babylon east, has no lighting, and it's perfectly safe to drive, and no harder than a road with so much lighting. That's because it's very straight for one, and the same can be done with the reflective lines, which work fine without providing terrible light pollution. Many roads were strung with lighting for no good reason and at a waste of energy, even forgetting the light pollution they give. In many instances, I even find it easier driving on a highway with no lighting at night, than with lights, as the orange glare is a killer sometimes, and even worse when raining. I can see much better on a dark road. (The whole post is in reference to highways, local roads are another topic). |
|
|
| (465212) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jun 22 09:28:12 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 22 08:26:57 2009. If you also want to take government regulation out of the mix, we would have 8 foot wide lanes, no shoulders, no lighting, possibly no striping, and advertising everywhere. Ramps would probably be about a 7% gradeYou don't think a private company would be innovative enough to make a standard superior to the present government standard? Remember, I.K. Brunel didn't get government cheese for Britain's Great Western Railway, and built that railroad to the famous 7' ¼" broad gauge . . . if anything, government intervention made the gauge shrink on that railroad . . . |
|
|
| (465215) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 09:38:15 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jun 22 09:28:12 2009. What I don't understand of these people that think that "public" is always better than private, just look at how "great" many public agencies are run, and how "happy" people are with them. Everyone just "loves" how well run the MTA is run, DMV, etc.This country was built on private enterprise, and there is much more evidence that private enterprise would be innovative than not innovative. To assume that the interstate highway system would not have been just as good as the safety features on the highway are now is totally without foundation. |
|
|
| (465220) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by bmtlines on Mon Jun 22 09:56:05 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 22 08:26:57 2009. Well lets see... By the late 1930's the BMT developed cars like the Bluebird, Green Hornet and Zephyr while the government run IND system settled for OLD Technology Arnines....The government's first contribution to passenger comfort upon taking over the entire system: Cancel the Bluebird order :( If we relied on government we would still be using the rotary telephone! |
|
|
| (465222) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 09:59:17 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by bmtlines on Mon Jun 22 09:56:05 2009. This is something these government control pushers don't understand for some reason. In fact, they are also forgetting that while not the only cause of the failure of the BMT and the IRT, one of the major causes for their failure was the government intervention of the mandate of the 5 cents (unrealistic) fare for so long.Government interference usually hinders innovation, not promote it. |
|
|
| (465223) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by Fred G on Mon Jun 22 09:59:38 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 08:40:52 2009. I think the last 6 months has shown dramatically how business will not regulate itself.I think anyone who's worked with highways knows that private companies will cut corners wherever they can, in both design and construction. In fact anyone who's worked with any kind of construction knows that. your pal, Fred |
|
|
| (465225) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by bmtlines on Mon Jun 22 10:01:19 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Jun 21 22:42:16 2009. you should have seen the Cooper bus lines here in Queens just before the MTA took them over to complete MTA Bus.That was because the government forced them to charge fares as low as $1, cut their subsidy and then refused to give tnem the new buses that they were contractually obligated to provide. The government destroyed the companies - the companies were literally strangled to death financially. |
|
|
| (465227) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by Easy on Mon Jun 22 10:09:09 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 04:36:49 2009. Maybe I'm too literal, but I don't interpret:"...told the AMA that there are some countries where a single payer system works pretty well. Do you know what countries he was referring to?" to be the same as better health care than the USA. |
|
|
| (465230) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 10:14:10 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by Fred G on Mon Jun 22 09:59:38 2009. I think anyone who's worked with highways knows that private companies will cut corners wherever they can, in both design and construction. In fact anyone who's worked with any kind of construction knows that.And anyone who's ever worked with government bureaucracy also knows how the government cuts corners and wastes. Tell me how many government run agencies get high praise for work they do? They often cut corners with contractors, sweetheart deals, and bureaucracy. In fact, some of their work is often substandard. A small example, I know a homeowner in queens that got ticketed for a cracked sidewalk. They were told they had to fix the problem, or the city would do it for them, and then bill them. The whole block got these notices (those who had problems). The homeowner I know chose to have it done themselves, and did. The neighbor two homes down chose to ignore it, and the city came and sent their contractor (which charged even more than my friend's sidewalk). My friend's sidewalk is in perfect condition. The neighbor's is all pitted, and surface coming off (usually when too dry cement, or improper cement mixture used). So much for "the government" doing it better and cheaper. I am sorry, but the government cuts corners often even more than private enterprise. And they usually take longer to get things done because it's tied up in Bureaucracy. Again, just look at how well the MTA runs things. Another great example. I know a station agent who was working at a station in Brooklyn, and there was a barricade for construction up near his booth. One morning, a construction crew came to remove the barricade. About 1/2 hour later, a painting crew came to paint the barricade. An argument took place for about 15-20 minutes, at which time supervisors on both sides were called. And you want to know how the wonderful government agency handled it? The painting crew was told to paint the barricade, and the demolition crew was told to leave, and come back the next day to take the barricade down..... |
|
|
| (465233) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by Fred G on Mon Jun 22 10:17:35 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 10:14:10 2009. I was talking about private business running without oversight. So put your agenda back in your pocket and save it for when I actually say something like "government does everything better" k?your pal, Fred |
|
|
| (465239) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by ntrainride on Mon Jun 22 10:22:01 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 08:45:40 2009. I disagree about Sunrise Highway. Sunrise Highway is a full fledged expressway from Lindenhurst to East Patchogue. It (at least the express lanes) should be lit. Seems safer, esp. if your car breaks down. To me, 495 is way better now that it's fully lighted. BTW, I got one of those "serving the people" e-mails from Levy's office stating that the county has received 10 million $ for improving the L.I.E. service roads in Suffolk. This is way needed also, as they are in crappy shape. I love driving along them but the roadway is beat up in many spots, like between Patchogue Holbrook Road and Lakeland Avenue, and between Route 111 and Washington Avenue in Brentwood. |
|
|
| (465243) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 10:25:45 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by bmtlines on Mon Jun 22 10:01:19 2009. It's something typical of when government bureaucracy gets involved in anything. |
|
|
| (465244) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 10:27:24 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by Easy on Mon Jun 22 10:09:09 2009. You are too literal. And even if that was the case, of you "not" being too literal, and if these supposed countries (which of course he doesn't know where or who they are) are not "better" than the USA, then why are we trying to change it? |
|
|
| (465245) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jun 22 10:31:29 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by Easy on Mon Jun 22 10:09:09 2009. I don't interpretOh, you do. |
|
|
| (465246) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 10:33:27 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by Fred G on Mon Jun 22 10:17:35 2009. The original post was a post about how had the highway system have been built privately instead of publically, that it "may" be missing many safety features the highways have today. You then said that private enterprise doesn't police itself well without regulation (meaning they cut corners, implying that the work would not be done as well as if the public agency did it). I then gave you examples of of where public agencies also cuts corners, with substandard work too, showing how the government doesn't run things much better often times. So perhaps please put you SPIN back in your pocket, and don't accuse others of doing the very thing you are doing, and then blaming it on others. |
|
|
| (465247) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 10:42:14 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by ntrainride on Mon Jun 22 10:22:01 2009. I personally like the Sunrise darkened as it is, but I guess it's personal driving preference. I can see much better without the lights, ESPECIALLY when it is rainy when the glare from those orange lights are terrible. I also preferred driving on the LIE< before they recently extended the lighting to Route 112 where it currently ends. I also thought it was much easier to see without them. Also, even when they are lit up, even if they had every other post it would be enough.As for Service roads, I know what you mean, they are beat up. I also heard that they want to extend the Sunrise's service roads from where they currently end around Hospital Rd (exit 54 in Patchogue) to either Station Road (exit 56) or William Floyd Parkway in Shirley at exit 58, I forgot which. East of Hospital Rd, the small stretches of service road there are, are even two way currently! They also don't cut through. |
|
|
| (465249) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by Easy on Mon Jun 22 10:46:13 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jun 22 10:31:29 2009. No I don't. Stop being an ass. |
|
|
| (465251) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by Fred G on Mon Jun 22 10:49:13 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 10:33:27 2009. Wrong, I didn't imply anything. If you don't keep an eye on private business, you'll end up with crap. As for spin, I spun nothing. You and your less than perfect reading comprehension are well known around here.your pal, Fred |
|
|
| (465253) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by Easy on Mon Jun 22 10:51:01 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 10:27:24 2009. Could be, but I don't know the context of Pres. Obama speaking to the AMA. If he was intending to say that those countries have better health care than the US, then that's that. But he could have just been responding to a question about whether national health care works well anywhere in the world. How can you be so sure? |
|
|
| (465255) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 10:54:18 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by Easy on Mon Jun 22 10:46:13 2009. Perhaps then you should "interpret" better. If you weren't "too literal", and you "weren't interpretting" either, and these supposed countries (that Gibbs can't name of course) that have "good government health care" AREN'T better than the US, then why exactly would Obama want to change it? If we can't assume these countries are "better" (again, these supposed countries that Gibbs can't name), then why exactly would we want to change to the system they have? |
|
|
| (465256) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 22 10:57:00 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 08:40:52 2009. For example, safety features were put in cars, long before Obama took over the car companies. Food business has safety standards, etc. The same would be true for Highway in private.Automotive and food safety standards are all the result of government mandates. GM would have been importing Chinese cars and slapping Bowties on them decades ago if they even came close to meeting federal safety standards. Here's private enterprise without government regulation: Crash+Test%3a+Chinese+Car%2c+Brilliance+BS6. |
|
|
| (465257) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 10:57:26 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by Fred G on Mon Jun 22 10:49:13 2009. If you don't keep an eye on private business, you'll end up with crap.And I showed how the government run things ALSO turn to crap often times.....and often at a higher cost. You and your less than perfect reading comprehension are well known around here. LOL, an attack because you don't want to deal with the problem I brought up that kills your claim. Of course it's easier to downplay the person making the accusation instead of dealing with the issue they brought up. That is ALSO well known around here my friend. |
|
|
| (465258) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by Fred G on Mon Jun 22 11:02:00 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 10:57:26 2009. Wow, I can't believe it. You claim I imply something, then you claim your rebuttal cancels out what I actually did say, and now you say I'm attacking you. You proved my points!your pal, Fred |
|
|
| (465259) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 22 11:04:39 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 10:14:10 2009. The homeowner I know chose to have it done themselves, and did. The neighbor two homes down chose to ignore it, and the city came and sent their contractor...And their contractor was a private company. It sounds like what was really needed was a City inspector to be present to check the mix and test the concrete, but then people would complain about governmen workers getting paid to stand around and do nothing. |
|
|
| (465260) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 11:06:09 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by Easy on Mon Jun 22 10:51:01 2009. For this country to want to change to a government run system, which Obama wants to do, that would automatically imply that the countries with the "best" government run systems would be BETTER than the USA, and if not, WHY in the world would we want to change to that system if they weren't better? The simple fact that Gibbs can't even mention countries that have GOOD government run systems, much less "better" government run systems doesn't do much for the case of Obama changing to that sort of a system. And if Obama wants to change to a government run system and none of these countries "have" a better system than the current system in the USA would be reprehensible then. So either way, your argument about whether "better" was meant or not, falls by the wayside. |
|
|
| (465261) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 11:10:35 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by Fred G on Mon Jun 22 11:02:00 2009. You didn't, but okay, to argue about he said she is asinine. The examples I gave more than prove that government run agencies don't necessarily run things better than private. |
|
|
| (465263) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Jun 22 11:11:31 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 09:59:17 2009. This is something these government control pushers don't understand for some reason. In fact, they are also forgetting that while not the only cause of the failure of the BMT and the IRTI would be interested to hear the views of others, but I think that only the BMT would have stood a fair chance of being commercially successful, not the IRT. |
|
|
| (465266) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by Fred G on Mon Jun 22 11:19:45 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 11:10:35 2009. Goody for you and your examples; they'll have their place when someone claims the public sector can build things better than private. But that wasn't at all what I was talking about. RIPTA got it, as his post about the Chinese cars shows.your pal, Fred |
|
|
| (465267) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 11:21:15 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 22 11:04:39 2009. And their contractor was a private companyCorrect. A contractor the GOVERNMENT hired to do the work, which was probably done through a bidding process, and CHOSEN by THEM to do the work. A contractor that charged MORE than the other company, to do the same job (both buildings got new sidewalks). The one the GOVERNMENT chose and paid (of course using the homeowner's funds as they lien the property) did a worse job than the one the other owner chose himself to do the job. I didn't say all private enterprise did things well, of course there are good contractors and there are bad contractors. The GOVERNMENT chose the bad contractor. So much for the government doing things better....they are the ones that CHOSE the inferior contractor. It sounds like what was really needed was a City inspector to be present to check the mix and test the concrete, but then people would complain about government workers getting paid to stand around and do nothing. In this case, they may or may not have a warranty with this inferior contractor. But what a waste of time, funds, materials, and inconvenience because the GOVERNMENT chose to work with this contractor. Who knows how many other jobs they botched up as they did on this street. And this is not at all atypical of government run or chosen work. And you didn't address the barricade issue with the MTA..... Another example of government waste. |
|
|
| (465268) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Jun 22 11:23:55 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by bmtlines on Mon Jun 22 10:01:19 2009. From what I saw, those Cooper operations took cheapness to the next level. And I got to see the difference between those operations and facilities and the others up front at the end.In my view, those operations were so cut rate that NYC DOT was out of line not to have rescinded the franchises in prior years. Other NYC DOT franchises - New York Bus Service, Queens Surface, and Liberty Lines Express - did not have that problem. |
|
|
| (465269) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by Fred G on Mon Jun 22 11:24:59 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 22 11:21:15 2009. The GOVERNMENT probably went with a LOW BIDDER, as is most often the case because they are mandated to do so.your pal, Fred |
|
|
| (465271) | |
Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better |
|
|
Posted by bmtlines on Mon Jun 22 11:29:15 2009, in response to Re: Gibbs Can't Name Countries Where Government Health Care Works Better, posted by trainsarefun on Mon Jun 22 11:11:31 2009. Actually the IRT subway division was profitable - the Manhattan Elevated leases were dragging them down. Then there is also the 800-lb gorilla in the room - the IND. The companies would have had a chance IF it had not been built.That is not to say that it is bad that subways replaced elevated lines such as at Fulton St in Brooklyn but what if the Fulton St subway were turned over to the BMT while the Sixth and Eighth avenue subways were turned over to the IRT? As for a unified system - the BMT recognized the need for a unified system in 1927 and probably would have merged with the IRT at some point. In fact steps toward such a merger were taken - in the early 1930's BMT management had acquired contol of the IRT through stock ownership but they were forced to sell the shares. Apparently private monopolies are evil but public ones are glorified :( |
|
|
|
|
Page 1 of 7 |
|