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Vatican and Obama—"War" over FOCA? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 2 02:20:30 2008 That's what some unnamed "senior Vatican official" alluded to, if Obama signs the Freedom of Choice Act; the "equivalent of a war".Time Magazine (from November 18)
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 2 02:43:13 2008, in response to Vatican and Obama—"War" over FOCA?, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 2 02:20:30 2008. Addendum: About the same time, this came out, from a former bishop of Memphis TN and former archbishop of Denver CO named Cardinal J. Francis Stafford. He's using rhetoric that describes Obama (especially his agenda) as "aggressive, disruptive and apocalyptic", saying that his election was a "cultural earthquake" for the US. (His speechwriter sounds like Obama ought to hire him.) There's a YouTube video of Stafford on there speaking, too.National Catholic Reporter (for Catholic News Service)
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Posted by AlM on Tue Dec 2 18:10:12 2008, in response to Vatican and Obama—"War" over FOCA?, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 2 02:20:30 2008. Believing that women should have the right to an abortion under a range of circumstances is not the same thing as believing that doctors should be required to perform abortions if they object to them. |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 2 19:18:48 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by AlM on Tue Dec 2 18:10:12 2008. Try using that argument to break through a Catholic conscience. And besides, that's not a true argument anyhow within the context you're defining. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Wed Dec 3 02:35:43 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 2 02:43:13 2008. Hmmmmmm...It's not enough that they want to control people..they want to control EVERYTHING. |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 3 02:54:47 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Edwards! on Wed Dec 3 02:35:43 2008. That goal of theirs hasn't changed in two millennia. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Dec 3 04:04:44 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Edwards! on Wed Dec 3 02:35:43 2008. Ignore that man's crap. *I* am a Catholic and the Pope spouts, and we ignore him. THIS is America ... the Pope can say whatever he feels like, he doesn't control this country. He may manage to pursuade some votes, but even though about 20-25% of this country is still Catholic, even in South Carolina, people don't get whipped for missing vespers. Olog is tinfoil country, even crazier than one of my other Faith Assembly of God buddies who got busted a few years ago for the usual FAG "arsenal of illegal explosives in his basement." :)PNAC has been deposed, the Pope smokes dope, and Germany has too much angst to do much of anything. We need to get Olog LAID. Heh. |
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Posted by Fred G on Wed Dec 3 04:17:58 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Dec 3 04:04:44 2008. It's been lip-service Catholicism in this country ever since they let us speak English and eat meat on Fridays. Pass the Reynolds® Wrapyour pal, Fred |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Dec 3 04:27:52 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Fred G on Wed Dec 3 04:17:58 2008. SPECIAL DISPENSATION if you made your parish's goal on the meat drive - Friday cheeseburgers (and FREE BEER) for everyone! Those at Saint Stanislav's go STRAIGHT to hell for failing the missions! :) |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 3 04:41:39 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Dec 3 04:04:44 2008. Ignore that man's. . . truth. Sorry, but you can't put a lid on the press. And you sure ain't putting a lid on Benedict. These ain't my words, as much as you want to believe they are. Olog doesn't ghostwrite for multiple news services. And you insult "Edwards". You imply that he cannot think for himself. (He sure can.) *I* am a Catholic and the Pope spouts, and we ignore him You haven't been to church lately, eh? Liberalism in the US catholic churches is on its way out. The Vatican now controls Italy (the media will tell you that). Fantasyland doesn't have impenetrable walls. Yoda says: Face reality, you must. |
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCOCIA? |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Wed Dec 3 04:56:50 2008, in response to Vatican and Obama—"War" over FOCA?, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 2 02:20:30 2008. I like mine toasted |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Dec 3 05:19:06 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 3 04:41:39 2008. Sorry ... YOUR "reality" has no happy outcome. Olog is obsessed with toilet monsters in other nations when the PROBLEM is right here. Show a desire to do THAT first, and maybe we'll talk. Germany and the EU ain't the problem. By OUR absence, they've had to "fend for themselves" since we're no longer "united nations" as was taught by NASA in the 60's.But hey, no point in discussing ... you HAVE all your answers, and everybody else is wrong. End of story ... :-\ |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Dec 3 09:35:39 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Edwards! on Wed Dec 3 02:35:43 2008. It's not enough that they want to control people..they want to control EVERYTHING.The Vatican, just like many other churches, wants the law in countries where it has adherents to reflect its moral views. They do this by exhorting their members to support political processes and candidates that help implement these views. In the US, they are a lot less successful than other churches, such as LDS, because the membership (except for a small dedicated core) generally shrugs off these exhortations. They can do better in Italy because referenda there require a majority of voters (whether they vote or not) to support a change, so the apathetic automatically become Church supporters. |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Wed Dec 3 17:22:59 2008, in response to Vatican and Obama—"War" over FOCA?, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 2 02:20:30 2008. figures that's who he'll find to go to war with.friggin warmonger |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 3 17:47:58 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Wed Dec 3 17:22:59 2008. To be fair, the Vatican threw the gauntlet down by being more explicit. They're almost daring Obama to sign the FOCA. |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Dec 3 18:51:45 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Fred G on Wed Dec 3 04:17:58 2008. Fred,I KNEW the entire Latin Mass (including the Greek) but 99/44% of the souls in the pews knew what was going on on the altar. When John 23rd "opened the window" it turned the Church upside down. My favorite saying is that Vatican II dragged the Church kicking and screaming into the 19th Century. I prefer the Mass in a language I understand and use every day. Remember, when Jesus changed bread into His Body and wine into His Blood the first time, it was JC and 12 of his friends at a Seder meal. |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 3 18:59:16 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Dec 3 05:19:06 2008. This thread ain't about my alleged reality. It's about reality. I didn't possess any Vatican officials to make them say what they said, but if you want to believe that, then I can't stop you from doing that. Do you believe any outcome is possible? I certainly do. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 3 19:09:27 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Dec 3 18:51:45 2008. Remember, when Jesus changed bread into His Body and wine into His Blood the first time, it was JC and 12 of his friends at a Seder meal.Oh, if you're going to bring that up, Dan Lawrence, then answer this: Why aren't you Jewish? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Dec 3 19:26:05 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 3 18:59:16 2008. You're right ... |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Dec 3 20:16:52 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 3 19:09:27 2008. Why aren't you Jewish?The answer is Saint Paul. He split Christianity away from being a Jewish sect by saying you didn't have to be Jewish to be a follower of Jesus. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 3 20:20:20 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by AlM on Wed Dec 3 20:16:52 2008. What gave him the right??!?!? |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Dec 3 20:39:37 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 3 19:09:27 2008. I'm Roman Catholic.Jesus was raised Jewish, but since you are Orthodox, maybe you didn't now about that. |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Dec 3 20:43:17 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 3 20:20:20 2008. Drop it.It's something for Christians. When the Time Machine is invented, you can go back to that time period and find out Saul of Tarsus (later Paul) was actually doing. |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 3 20:49:56 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by AlM on Wed Dec 3 20:16:52 2008. No, that's not what Paul said. His chief deviation had to do with circumcision. ("Circumcision of the heart" is mentioned in the Old Testament, as is the notion of salvation for the gentiles, or goyim, following the arrival of the Messiah.) |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 3 21:12:45 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Dec 3 20:43:17 2008. No, I won't. YOU brought it up. You mentioned the seder. Jewish people have passover seders. Catholics don't. Thus...? |
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Posted by jimmymc25 on Wed Dec 3 21:16:15 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Dec 3 04:04:44 2008. Ya know I believe your post is the first time I've seen Olag & the word laid in the same sentence.Jimmymc25 |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 3 21:16:38 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Dec 3 20:39:37 2008. I'm Roman Catholic.Yes, as you've said. Jesus was raised Jewish, but since you are Orthodox, maybe you didn't now about that. Why wouldn't I know that? Of course I know that. Why wouldn't orthodox Jews know that? Why don't you come out and say what you are thinking. Anyhow, Jesus wasn't just raised Jewish, he WAS Jewish. His whole life. And if he was Jewish, and his religion (Judaism) says many specific things (the sabbath is Saturday, no eating pork, etc), then why aren't you Jewish, and why aren't you following those things? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Dec 3 22:09:10 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by jimmymc25 on Wed Dec 3 21:16:15 2008. Heh. Probably the last time as well. :) |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Wed Dec 3 22:14:43 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Dec 3 20:39:37 2008. If Jesus was raised Jewish then his mother, the Virgin Mary must be Jewish. . .according to law.Please make factual statements, thank you. |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Wed Dec 3 22:17:33 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Dec 3 18:51:45 2008. The bread and wine are two requirements to hold a Seder, which is Jewish tradition as well as Jewish law. |
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Posted by Easy on Wed Dec 3 22:41:36 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 3 21:16:38 2008. So the question as I understand it is if Jesus was born Jewish and lived his entire life until the day that he died as an observant Jew, then why aren't his followers observant Jews? Is that it? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 3 23:04:15 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Easy on Wed Dec 3 22:41:36 2008. That's certainly one question. But it should be rendered "why aren't all his followers, etc." |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Dec 4 02:03:38 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Wed Dec 3 22:14:43 2008. PLEASE...stop this "VIRGIN MARY" crap...Jesus had BROTHERS and SISTERS..how could she have remained a VIRGIN? You folks keep believing the lie. THE FOCUS MUST remain on GOD..not MARY. She was JUST another person the Lord "FAVORED"... No disrespect intended..but the TRUTH must be known.. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Dec 4 02:04:08 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Wed Dec 3 22:14:43 2008. PLEASE...stop this "VIRGIN MARY" crap...Jesus had BROTHERS and SISTERS..how could she have remained a VIRGIN? You folks keep believing the lie. THE FOCUS MUST remain on GOD..not MARY. She was JUST another person the Lord "FAVORED"... |
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Posted by SMAZ on Thu Dec 4 02:28:04 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 3 17:47:58 2008. Not enough votes in Congress for FOCA. Also, Harry Reid is pro-life. |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 4 02:31:55 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Edwards! on Thu Dec 4 02:04:08 2008. Jesus had BROTHERS and SISTERS...how could she have remained a VIRGIN?The artifice that the RCC has come up with centers around the fact that in Hebrew, the word "akh" means both brother and cousin (this is one of the chief things they rest their "perpetual virginity" doctrine upon). However, the New Testament was written in Greek, which has two very distinct words for brother and cousin, which are "adelphos" and "syngenes" respectively. ("Adelphos" literally means "of the same womb".) |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 4 02:34:16 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by SMAZ on Thu Dec 4 02:28:04 2008. Only in "spirit". He's got a plethora of pro-choice constituents, though; if Reid votes his conscience (assuming FOCA comes to a vote), then that shows him to have some real character. |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 4 02:40:30 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Wed Dec 3 22:14:43 2008. Yes, Mary was a Jewess, and descended from King David. |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 4 02:43:09 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by jimmymc25 on Wed Dec 3 21:16:15 2008. Olag & the wordThat's very Biblical-sounding. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Dec 4 02:44:49 2008, in response to Vatican and Obama—"War" over FOCA?, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 2 02:20:30 2008. 1-800-THNK-RT |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Dec 4 02:45:37 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Edwards! on Thu Dec 4 02:03:38 2008. Wish I had time for "truth" and forgive me for attaching like a leech to your post, but Catholics take the "Blessed Virgin Mary" ("BVM") *quite* seriously as an act of faith. It's the "Protestant descendents" of Martin Luther (as Olog would note - GERMAN! Heh) and the rest who left the "Church of St Peter" in following years who proclaim this. Then again, I can't understand the RC church's attitude towards women either.And I won't even GO into Mary Magdelene and all that followed there. If it weren't for the "you're an antisemite but it's PERFECTLY OK for me to bash Catholics" up in here, I might bother. But too busy to play "fling poo" with the rest of the bigots here. Don't be joining them. :) |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Dec 4 04:13:28 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 3 21:16:38 2008. Well..I have a question for You,since You Are Jewish...Do You Believe Jesus was the "Son of God"? |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Dec 4 04:29:50 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Wed Dec 3 22:14:43 2008. What's that have to do with the price of eggs?polly wanna cracker? |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Dec 4 04:31:06 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Edwards! on Thu Dec 4 04:13:28 2008. Don't hold your breath waiting for an answer. |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Dec 4 04:32:37 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Dec 3 20:43:17 2008. lol |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Dec 4 06:51:37 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Easy on Wed Dec 3 22:41:36 2008. More or less, though I am specifically focusing on the illustrious Dan Lawrence of Baltimore County, who brought up a Passover Seder meal in trying to prove something about Catholicism. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Dec 4 06:51:57 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Edwards! on Thu Dec 4 04:13:28 2008. No. |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Dec 4 07:00:57 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Dec 4 06:51:37 2008. >>>>>...I am specifically focusing on the illustrious Dan Lawrence of Baltimore County,....because he is one of my favorite targets. |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Dec 4 07:01:09 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Dec 4 06:51:37 2008. >>>>>...I am specifically focusing on the illustrious Dan Lawrence of Baltimore County,....because he is one of my favorite targets. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Dec 4 07:06:34 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Dec 4 07:01:09 2008. No, because he made a post that I disagreed with.If you want to talk about someone having a favorite target, that would be YOU. |
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