Vatican and Obama—"War" over FOCA?

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Vatican and Obama—"War" over FOCA?
Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 2 02:20:30 2008 edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d That's what some unnamed "senior Vatican official" alluded to, if Obama signs the Freedom of Choice Act; the "equivalent of a war". Time Magazine (from November 18) Will the Pope and Obama Clash Over Abortion? By Jeff Israely Tuesday, Nov. 18, 2008 Though Barack Obama won't be announcing his foreign travel plans anytime soon, it's a good bet that the new U.S. President will meet Pope Benedict XVI sometime next year, perhaps in early July to coincide with the G-8 summit in Italy. It promises to be one of the great photo ops of 2009. Benedict sent a personal message to Obama the day after his victory, which referred to the "historic occasion" of his coming presidency; Obama subsequently telephoned the Pope as part of a round of calls to world leaders. But well before the two men have their historic handshake, the ground is already shifting underneath U.S.-Vatican relations. After the Bush Administration, the election of a pro-choice, pro-diplomacy Democratic President is changing the Vatican's game plan vis-à-vis Washington on several levels. Bush was viewed in Rome as a rare ally in the West for his opposition to such issues as abortion, gay marriage and stem-cell research. And the first issue to watch is abortion. The Pope's top aides may have already informed Benedict about a campaign promise Obama made on July 17, 2007, to Planned Parenthood, stating that his first act as President would be to sign the Freedom of Choice Act, which would undo legislation that put restrictions on access to abortions. Some Catholics have warned that such a decree, which would essentially codify Roe v. Wade into federal law, could force doctors in Catholic hospitals to perform abortions against their conscience. "There's more fear here than wrath," a senior Vatican official told TIME with regard to the Catholic hierarchy's attitude toward Obama. However, if Obama signs the Freedom of Choice Act in his first months in office, "it would be the equivalent of a war," says the same official. "It would be like saying, 'We've heard the Catholic Church and we have no interest in their concerns.' " U.S. Catholic bishops at a meeting in Baltimore last week vowed to take on Obama for his support of abortion rights; they are also skeptical about his assurances to try to reduce the number of abortions while supporting the right to choose. Even before the election, Democrats were warned not to risk becoming the "party of death," according to former St. Louis Archbishop Raymond Burke. It was Burke who famously pledged in 2004 to deny communion to the pro-choice Catholic presidential candidate John Kerry. The archbishop has since been promoted to Rome as head of the Holy See's equivalent of a Supreme Court. Meanwhile, in response to a question last week on Obama's pledge to reverse Washington's policy on stem-cell research, Cardinal Javier Lozano Barragan, who heads the Vatican office for health, made it clear that the church will not shy away from the debate. "What builds up man is good, what destroys him is bad," he told reporters, arguing that one human being should never become a material resource for the betterment of another. Nevertheless, 54% of U.S. Catholic voters supported Obama, who is Protestant. That may give him the cover to move ahead with his pledges. An added twist to the Obama Administration will be its pro-choice Catholic Vice President, Joe Biden. Bishop Joseph Martino of Scranton, Pa., hometown of Biden, told his fellow bishops last week, "I cannot have a Vice President–elect coming to Scranton to say he's learned his values there when those values are utterly against the teachings of the Catholic Church." Another pro-choice Catholic, Kansas governor Kathleen Sebelius, may be on the short list for the position of Secretary of Health and Human Services. Though there are plenty of pro-choice Catholic politicians in Western Europe, this issue tends to get played out more openly in the U.S., both because of the country's superpower status and its vocal traditionalist wing of the church. Beyond bioethics, Vatican officials generally view the incoming Administration's economic and foreign policies as a marked improvement over the past eight years, which included vocal criticism from Rome over the war in Iraq and skepticism toward the unfettered capitalism preached by Republicans. The possibility of an open clash over abortion could squander the potential for the Vatican to work side-by-side with Washington on issues such as Middle East peace, human rights and environmental protection. It might also tighten the smiles when it's time for that first photo op.
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by Olog-hai* on Tue Dec 2 02:43:13 2008, in response to Vatican and Obama—"War" over FOCA?, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 2 02:20:30 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Addendum: About the same time, this came out, from a former bishop of Memphis TN and former archbishop of Denver CO named Cardinal J. Francis Stafford. He's using rhetoric that describes Obama (especially his agenda) as "aggressive, disruptive and apocalyptic", saying that his election was a "cultural earthquake" for the US. (His speechwriter sounds like Obama ought to hire him.) There's a YouTube video of Stafford on there speaking, too. National Catholic Reporter (for Catholic News Service) Cardinal: Obama agenda 'apocalyptic' By Catholic News Service Published: November 19, 2008 WASHINGTON — A U.S. cardinal who has worked at the Vatican for 12 years harshly criticized President-elect Barack Obama Nov. 13, saying he has "an agenda and vision that are aggressive, disruptive and apocalyptic." Cardinal J. Francis Stafford, head of the Apostolic Penitentiary, a major Vatican tribunal, spoke on "Pope Paul VI and Pope John Paul II: Being True in Body and Soul" in a lecture sponsored by the Pontifical John Paul II Institute for Studies on Marriage and Family at The Catholic University of America in Washington. Saying that the United States experienced a "cultural earthquake" when Obama was elected president Nov. 4, Stafford said the president-elect "appears to be a relaxed, smiling man" with rhetorical skills that are "very highly developed." "But under all that grace and charm, there is a tautness of will, a state of constant alertness, to attack and resist any external influence that might affect his will," he added. Stafford quoted liberally from Obama's July 17, 2007, address to the Planned Parenthood Federation of America, in which Obama affirmed his support for Roe v. Wade, the 1973 U.S. Supreme Court ruling that legalized most abortions, and said, "On this issue I will not yield." Obama also said in the 2007 talk that he would not want his daughters to be "punished by a pregnancy." "Punished by a pregnancy," Stafford repeated. "Catholics weep at these words. … What should we do with our hot, angry tears of betrayal?" The cardinal compared the upcoming years of the Obama administration to Jesus' agony in the Garden of Gethsemane. "For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal," he said. "We will know that garden." Although the text of Cardinal Stafford's talk was not made public, a video clip from it was posted on YouTube by The Tower, the student newspaper at Catholic University. The Tower also reported that Stafford spoke about "Humanae Vitae," Pope Paul VI's 1968 encyclical on human life, and said Catholics need to return to the original values of marriage and human dignity. "If 1968 was the year of America's 'suicide attempt,' 2008 is the year of America's exhaustion," he said. "In the intervening 40 years since 'Humanae Vitae,' the United States has been thrown upon ruins." Cardinal Stafford, 76, was bishop of Memphis, Tenn., 1983-86, and archbishop of Denver, 1986-96, until he was called to the Vatican by Pope John Paul II in 1996 to serve as president of the Pontifical Council for the Laity. He was named a cardinal in 1998.
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by AlM* on Tue Dec 2 18:10:12 2008, in response to Vatican and Obama—"War" over FOCA?, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 2 02:20:30 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Believing that women should have the right to an abortion under a range of circumstances is not the same thing as believing that doctors should be required to perform abortions if they object to them.
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by Olog-hai* on Tue Dec 2 19:18:48 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by AlM on Tue Dec 2 18:10:12 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Try using that argument to break through a Catholic conscience. And besides, that's not a true argument anyhow within the context you're defining.
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by Edwards!* on Wed Dec 3 02:35:43 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 2 02:43:13 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Hmmmmmm... It's not enough that they want to control people..they want to control EVERYTHING.
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by Olog-hai* on Wed Dec 3 02:54:47 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Edwards! on Wed Dec 3 02:35:43 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d That goal of theirs hasn't changed in two millennia.
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by SelkirkTMO* on Wed Dec 3 04:04:44 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Edwards! on Wed Dec 3 02:35:43 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Ignore that man's crap. I am a Catholic and the Pope spouts, and we ignore him. THIS is America ... the Pope can say whatever he feels like, he doesn't control this country. He may manage to pursuade some votes, but even though about 20-25% of this country is still Catholic, even in South Carolina, people don't get whipped for missing vespers. Olog is tinfoil country, even crazier than one of my other Faith Assembly of God buddies who got busted a few years ago for the usual FAG "arsenal of illegal explosives in his basement." :) PNAC has been deposed, the Pope smokes dope, and Germany has too much angst to do much of anything. We need to get Olog LAID. Heh.
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by Fred G* on Wed Dec 3 04:17:58 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Dec 3 04:04:44 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d It's been lip-service Catholicism in this country ever since they let us speak English and eat meat on Fridays. Pass the Reynolds® Wrap your pal, Fred
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by SelkirkTMO* on Wed Dec 3 04:27:52 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Fred G on Wed Dec 3 04:17:58 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d SPECIAL DISPENSATION if you made your parish's goal on the meat drive - Friday cheeseburgers (and FREE BEER) for everyone! Those at Saint Stanislav's go STRAIGHT to hell for failing the missions! :)
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by Olog-hai* on Wed Dec 3 04:41:39 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Dec 3 04:04:44 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Ignore that man's . . . truth. Sorry, but you can't put a lid on the press. And you sure ain't putting a lid on Benedict. These ain't my words, as much as you want to believe they are. Olog doesn't ghostwrite for multiple news services. And you insult "Edwards". You imply that he cannot think for himself. (He sure can.) I am a Catholic and the Pope spouts, and we ignore him You haven't been to church lately, eh? Liberalism in the US catholic churches is on its way out. The Vatican now controls Italy (the media will tell you that). Fantasyland doesn't have impenetrable walls. Yoda says: Face reality, you must.
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCOCIA?
Posted by SUBWAYSURF* on Wed Dec 3 04:56:50 2008, in response to Vatican and Obama—"War" over FOCA?, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 2 02:20:30 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I like mine toasted
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by SelkirkTMO* on Wed Dec 3 05:19:06 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 3 04:41:39 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Sorry ... YOUR "reality" has no happy outcome. Olog is obsessed with toilet monsters in other nations when the PROBLEM is right here. Show a desire to do THAT first, and maybe we'll talk. Germany and the EU ain't the problem. By OUR absence, they've had to "fend for themselves" since we're no longer "united nations" as was taught by NASA in the 60's. But hey, no point in discussing ... you HAVE all your answers, and everybody else is wrong. End of story ... :-\
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by AlM* on Wed Dec 3 09:35:39 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Edwards! on Wed Dec 3 02:35:43 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d It's not enough that they want to control people..they want to control EVERYTHING. The Vatican, just like many other churches, wants the law in countries where it has adherents to reflect its moral views. They do this by exhorting their members to support political processes and candidates that help implement these views. In the US, they are a lot less successful than other churches, such as LDS, because the membership (except for a small dedicated core) generally shrugs off these exhortations. They can do better in Italy because referenda there require a majority of voters (whether they vote or not) to support a change, so the apathetic automatically become Church supporters.
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by Orange Blossom Special* on Wed Dec 3 17:22:59 2008, in response to Vatican and Obama—"War" over FOCA?, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 2 02:20:30 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d figures that's who he'll find to go to war with. friggin warmonger
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by Olog-hai* on Wed Dec 3 17:47:58 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Wed Dec 3 17:22:59 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d To be fair, the Vatican threw the gauntlet down by being more explicit. They're almost daring Obama to sign the FOCA.
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by Dan Lawrence* on Wed Dec 3 18:51:45 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Fred G on Wed Dec 3 04:17:58 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Fred, I KNEW the entire Latin Mass (including the Greek) but 99/44% of the souls in the pews knew what was going on on the altar. When John 23rd "opened the window" it turned the Church upside down. My favorite saying is that Vatican II dragged the Church kicking and screaming into the 19th Century. I prefer the Mass in a language I understand and use every day. Remember, when Jesus changed bread into His Body and wine into His Blood the first time, it was JC and 12 of his friends at a Seder meal.
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by Olog-hai* on Wed Dec 3 18:59:16 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Dec 3 05:19:06 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d This thread ain't about my alleged reality. It's about reality. I didn't possess any Vatican officials to make them say what they said, but if you want to believe that, then I can't stop you from doing that. Do you believe any outcome is possible? I certainly do.
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by Terrapin Station* on Wed Dec 3 19:09:27 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Dec 3 18:51:45 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Remember, when Jesus changed bread into His Body and wine into His Blood the first time, it was JC and 12 of his friends at a Seder meal. Oh, if you're going to bring that up, Dan Lawrence, then answer this: Why aren't you Jewish?
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by SelkirkTMO* on Wed Dec 3 19:26:05 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 3 18:59:16 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d You're right ...
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by AlM* on Wed Dec 3 20:16:52 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 3 19:09:27 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Why aren't you Jewish? The answer is Saint Paul. He split Christianity away from being a Jewish sect by saying you didn't have to be Jewish to be a follower of Jesus.
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by Terrapin Station* on Wed Dec 3 20:20:20 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by AlM on Wed Dec 3 20:16:52 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d What gave him the right??!?!?
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by Dan Lawrence* on Wed Dec 3 20:39:37 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 3 19:09:27 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I'm Roman Catholic. Jesus was raised Jewish, but since you are Orthodox, maybe you didn't now about that.
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by Dan Lawrence* on Wed Dec 3 20:43:17 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 3 20:20:20 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Drop it. It's something for Christians. When the Time Machine is invented, you can go back to that time period and find out Saul of Tarsus (later Paul) was actually doing.
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by Olog-hai* on Wed Dec 3 20:49:56 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by AlM on Wed Dec 3 20:16:52 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d No, that's not what Paul said. His chief deviation had to do with circumcision. ("Circumcision of the heart" is mentioned in the Old Testament, as is the notion of salvation for the gentiles, or goyim, following the arrival of the Messiah.)
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by Terrapin Station* on Wed Dec 3 21:12:45 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Dec 3 20:43:17 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d No, I won't. YOU brought it up. You mentioned the seder. Jewish people have passover seders. Catholics don't. Thus...?
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by jimmymc25* on Wed Dec 3 21:16:15 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Dec 3 04:04:44 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Ya know I believe your post is the first time I've seen Olag & the word laid in the same sentence. Jimmymc25
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by Terrapin Station* on Wed Dec 3 21:16:38 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Dec 3 20:39:37 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I'm Roman Catholic. Yes, as you've said. Jesus was raised Jewish, but since you are Orthodox, maybe you didn't now about that. Why wouldn't I know that? Of course I know that. Why wouldn't orthodox Jews know that? Why don't you come out and say what you are thinking. Anyhow, Jesus wasn't just raised Jewish, he WAS Jewish. His whole life. And if he was Jewish, and his religion (Judaism) says many specific things (the sabbath is Saturday, no eating pork, etc), then why aren't you Jewish, and why aren't you following those things?
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by SelkirkTMO* on Wed Dec 3 22:09:10 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by jimmymc25 on Wed Dec 3 21:16:15 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Heh. Probably the last time as well. :)
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by Newkirk Plaza David* on Wed Dec 3 22:14:43 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Dec 3 20:39:37 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d If Jesus was raised Jewish then his mother, the Virgin Mary must be Jewish. . .according to law. Please make factual statements, thank you.
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by Newkirk Plaza David* on Wed Dec 3 22:17:33 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Dec 3 18:51:45 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d The bread and wine are two requirements to hold a Seder, which is Jewish tradition as well as Jewish law.
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by Easy* on Wed Dec 3 22:41:36 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 3 21:16:38 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d So the question as I understand it is if Jesus was born Jewish and lived his entire life until the day that he died as an observant Jew, then why aren't his followers observant Jews? Is that it?
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by Olog-hai* on Wed Dec 3 23:04:15 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Easy on Wed Dec 3 22:41:36 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d That's certainly one question. But it should be rendered "why aren't all his followers, etc."
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by Edwards!* on Thu Dec 4 02:03:38 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Wed Dec 3 22:14:43 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d PLEASE...stop this "VIRGIN MARY" crap... Jesus had BROTHERS and SISTERS..how could she have remained a VIRGIN? You folks keep believing the lie. THE FOCUS MUST remain on GOD..not MARY. She was JUST another person the Lord "FAVORED"... No disrespect intended..but the TRUTH must be known..
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by Edwards!* on Thu Dec 4 02:04:08 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Wed Dec 3 22:14:43 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d PLEASE...stop this "VIRGIN MARY" crap... Jesus had BROTHERS and SISTERS..how could she have remained a VIRGIN? You folks keep believing the lie. THE FOCUS MUST remain on GOD..not MARY. She was JUST another person the Lord "FAVORED"...
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by SMAZ* on Thu Dec 4 02:28:04 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 3 17:47:58 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Not enough votes in Congress for FOCA. Also, Harry Reid is pro-life.
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by Olog-hai* on Thu Dec 4 02:31:55 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Edwards! on Thu Dec 4 02:04:08 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Jesus had BROTHERS and SISTERS...how could she have remained a VIRGIN? The artifice that the RCC has come up with centers around the fact that in Hebrew, the word "akh" means both brother and cousin (this is one of the chief things they rest their "perpetual virginity" doctrine upon). However, the New Testament was written in Greek, which has two very distinct words for brother and cousin, which are "adelphos" and "syngenes" respectively. ("Adelphos" literally means "of the same womb".)
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by Olog-hai* on Thu Dec 4 02:34:16 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by SMAZ on Thu Dec 4 02:28:04 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Only in "spirit". He's got a plethora of pro-choice constituents, though; if Reid votes his conscience (assuming FOCA comes to a vote), then that shows him to have some real character.
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by Olog-hai* on Thu Dec 4 02:40:30 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Wed Dec 3 22:14:43 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Yes, Mary was a Jewess, and descended from King David.
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by Olog-hai* on Thu Dec 4 02:43:09 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by jimmymc25 on Wed Dec 3 21:16:15 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Olag & the word That's very Biblical-sounding.
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by RonInBayside* on Thu Dec 4 02:44:49 2008, in response to Vatican and Obama—"War" over FOCA?, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 2 02:20:30 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d 1-800-THNK-RT
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by SelkirkTMO* on Thu Dec 4 02:45:37 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Edwards! on Thu Dec 4 02:03:38 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Wish I had time for "truth" and forgive me for attaching like a leech to your post, but Catholics take the "Blessed Virgin Mary" ("BVM") quite seriously as an act of faith. It's the "Protestant descendents" of Martin Luther (as Olog would note - GERMAN! Heh) and the rest who left the "Church of St Peter" in following years who proclaim this. Then again, I can't understand the RC church's attitude towards women either. And I won't even GO into Mary Magdelene and all that followed there. If it weren't for the "you're an antisemite but it's PERFECTLY OK for me to bash Catholics" up in here, I might bother. But too busy to play "fling poo" with the rest of the bigots here. Don't be joining them. :)
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by Edwards!* on Thu Dec 4 04:13:28 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 3 21:16:38 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Well..I have a question for You,since You Are Jewish... Do You Believe Jesus was the "Son of God"?
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by SUBWAYSURF* on Thu Dec 4 04:29:50 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Wed Dec 3 22:14:43 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d What's that have to do with the price of eggs? polly wanna cracker?
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by SUBWAYSURF* on Thu Dec 4 04:31:06 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Edwards! on Thu Dec 4 04:13:28 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Don't hold your breath waiting for an answer.
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by SUBWAYSURF* on Thu Dec 4 04:32:37 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Dec 3 20:43:17 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d lol
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by Terrapin Station* on Thu Dec 4 06:51:37 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Easy on Wed Dec 3 22:41:36 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d More or less, though I am specifically focusing on the illustrious Dan Lawrence of Baltimore County, who brought up a Passover Seder meal in trying to prove something about Catholicism.
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by Terrapin Station* on Thu Dec 4 06:51:57 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Edwards! on Thu Dec 4 04:13:28 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d No.
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by SUBWAYSURF* on Thu Dec 4 07:00:57 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Dec 4 06:51:37 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d >>>>>...I am specifically focusing on the illustrious Dan Lawrence of Baltimore County, ~~who brought up a Passover Seder meal in trying to prove something about Catholicism.~~...~~~~ ~~....because he is one of my favorite targets.~~
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by SUBWAYSURF* on Thu Dec 4 07:01:09 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Dec 4 06:51:37 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d >>>>>...I am specifically focusing on the illustrious Dan Lawrence of Baltimore County, ~~who brought up a Passover Seder meal in trying to prove something about Catholicism.~~... ....because he is one of my favorite targets.
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Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?
Posted by Terrapin Station* on Thu Dec 4 07:06:34 2008, in response to Re: Vatican and Obama—''War'' over FOCA?, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Dec 4 07:01:09 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d No, because he made a post that I disagreed with. If you want to talk about someone having a favorite target, that would be YOU.
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