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Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Jun 26 21:04:00 2008 Bigger than typewriter wheels."Research has since uncovered the law, in force at the time of Obama's birth, that were he to have been born in another country, his young American mother's youth extended time abroad would not suffice to make him a "natural born citizen." Even if he were naturalized later -- and there is no evidence that he was -- he would not be eligible to run for the office of president ." The "birth certificate" claimed by the Barack Obama campaign is not certified as authentic and appears to be a photoshopped fake. The image, purporting to come from the Hawaii Department of Health, has been the subject of intense skepticism in the blogosphere in the past two weeks. But now the senior spokesman of that Department has confirmed to Israel Insider what are the required features of a certified birth document -- features that Obama's purported "birth certificate" clearly lack. The image became increasingly suspect with Israel Insider's revelation that variations of the certificate image were posted on the Photobucket image aggregation website -- including one listing the location of Obama's birth as Antarctica, one with the certificate supposedly issued by the government of North Korea, and another including a purported photo of baby Barack -- one of which has a "photo taken" time-stamp just two minutes before the article and accompanying image was posted on the left-wing Daily Kos blog. That strongly suggests that Daily Kos obtained the image from Photobucket, not the State of Hawaii, the Obama family, or the Obama campaign. Photobucket is not generally known as a credible supplier of official vital records for any of the fifty states, and the liberties that other Photoshoppers took with the certificates confirms this. Some of these oddities surfaced in Israel Insider's previous article on the subject, but new comparative documentary evidence presented below, and official verification obtained by Israel Insider from a senior Hawaiian official, provides the strongest confirmation yet. An authentic Hawaiian birth certificate for another Hawaiian individual has since surfaced which, using the same official form as the presumptive Obama certificate, includes an embossed official seal and an authoritative signature, coming through from the back. Obama's alleged certificate lacks those features, and the certificate number referencing the birth year has been blacked out, making it untraceable. So if he were registered as being born in Hawaii, Barack Obama -- because only he or another member of his immediate family could by law request a "Certification of Live Birth" -- must have a certified paper copy, with embossed stamp and seal, or he could request one. But what his campaign has put forward as genuine, according to the senior spokesman in the relevant department of the State of Hawaii, is not in fact a certified copy. It is not valid. Whereas the uncertified Obama document provides the date "filed by registrar", the certified DeCosta document provides the date "accepted by the registrar." The difference between filing an application for a Certification of Live Birth and having it accepted may be key here. The Obama campaign, however, continues to flaunt the unstamped, unsealed, uncertified document -- notably in very low resolution -- on its "Fight the Smears" website, with campaign officials vowing that it's authentic, sending the image around as "proof" to reporters, and inviting supporters to refer to it as they battle against supposed distortions and calumnies against their candidate. However, the campaign refuses to produce an authentic original birth certificate from the year of Obama's birth, or even a paper version with seal and signature of the "Certification of Live Birth." Nor has it even published an electronic copy with the requisite embossed seal and signature. ----- and blah blah blah. So the official campaign site, which not only has it's own hate filled blog, get's it's data and documents from real blog sites? sheesh. |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Jun 26 21:14:42 2008, in response to Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Jun 26 21:04:00 2008. His birth certificate looks almost exactly like mine (I lost my original).When you ask for a copy in NY, and presumably also in HI, you don't get a facsimile of the original. You get a modern looking computer-printed certificate. Maybe the reason the Obama campaign isn't making an effort to get an original facsimile is because this claim is so moronic - it makes the opposition look really pointlessly nasty. |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Jun 26 21:29:31 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by AlM on Thu Jun 26 21:14:42 2008. or maybe it's a simple request.That's right, when the NYTimes says McCain isn't a citizen, that's front page. |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by vfrt on Fri Jun 27 16:04:34 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Jun 26 21:29:31 2008. McCain was born in the Canal Zone when it was a US territory. Barry Goldwater was born in the Arizona Territory. I always thought that Barack HUSSEIN Obama was born in Indonesia and then became a citizen as a child when his parents moved back to Hawaii in which case there would be a record of his citizenship papers somewhere. |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Fri Jun 27 16:05:54 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by vfrt on Fri Jun 27 16:04:34 2008. I would not be surprised if he was born abroad. Imagine if it's proven and he had to drop out of the race? RIOTS! |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Fri Jun 27 16:26:54 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by LuchAAA on Fri Jun 27 16:05:54 2008. And "the Brothers" will come after you first. |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Fri Jun 27 16:43:18 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Fri Jun 27 16:26:54 2008. Who said anything about "the Brothers" rioting? How bigoted of you. |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by vfrt on Fri Jun 27 16:45:53 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by LuchAAA on Fri Jun 27 16:05:54 2008. Here's the section of the Constitition regarding qualifications for President:'No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.' I don't think anyone knows what 'natural born citizen' really means. Link - http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#A2Sec1 |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Fri Jun 27 16:52:28 2008, in response to Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Jun 26 21:04:00 2008. Its going to be a looooong time to November.... |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Fri Jun 27 16:53:45 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by LuchAAA on Fri Jun 27 16:43:18 2008. lame response |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Fri Jun 27 16:54:55 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Fri Jun 27 16:53:45 2008. appropriate. you're a lame person. |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Fri Jun 27 16:57:25 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by LuchAAA on Fri Jun 27 16:54:55 2008. Maybe maybe not. But, you made the response not me. |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Jun 27 17:19:27 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Jun 26 21:29:31 2008. That's right, when the NYTimes says McCain isn't a citizen, that's front page.But they didn't. You either misread the article or got a mangled version from your paranoid sources. |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jun 27 17:20:35 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by vfrt on Fri Jun 27 16:45:53 2008. It obviously means a United States citizen BY NATURE OF BIRTH! Meaning one who becomes a United States citizen simply by being born. |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by vfrt on Fri Jun 27 17:43:37 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jun 27 17:20:35 2008. I agree but I don't think any court has ever had to clarify it's meaning. You can't say 'obvious' when it comes to the Constitution. |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jun 27 17:45:37 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by vfrt on Fri Jun 27 17:43:37 2008. You can't say 'obvious' when it comes to the Constitution.I would say things like freedom of speech, the press and religion are rather obvious. |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Jun 27 18:16:04 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by AlM on Fri Jun 27 17:19:27 2008. no source is more paranoid than the NYT |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Jun 27 18:17:39 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by vfrt on Fri Jun 27 16:04:34 2008. u made me realize something. I dont' fully get Barry's timeline of where he lived.But there's so much misinformation out there as it is. Listen to talk radio one day. supporter caller one; he grew up in the south side of chicago. Supporter caller number two; he grew up in Kansas. And it goes on like that for 6 different places. Even legions of followers aren't in the loop. |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Jun 27 18:18:15 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Fri Jun 27 16:57:25 2008. he got your password |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jun 28 02:49:22 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by vfrt on Fri Jun 27 17:43:37 2008. Yes you can, with regard to whatever is spelled out in the text. |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Sat Jun 28 03:11:13 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by LuchAAA on Fri Jun 27 16:05:54 2008. Riots maybe, but then Hillary would be given back the nomination and at least half the Democrats would be happy again. |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat Jun 28 07:46:02 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Jun 27 18:18:15 2008. Is that the best you can do, oh misinformed one. |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jun 28 08:01:31 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by AlM on Fri Jun 27 17:19:27 2008. When it's the other way around, then it's "fine news sources" reporting the news. |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sat Jun 28 09:49:51 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by AlM on Thu Jun 26 21:14:42 2008. The law being the law is "pointless and nasty"? |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Jun 28 15:36:35 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by Train Dude on Sat Jun 28 09:49:51 2008. The law being the law is "pointless and nasty"?Do you actually believe that Obama was born somewhere other than Hawaii? Obama hasn't violated any law by producing a 21st century State of Hawaii re-issued non-facsimile copy of his birth certificate. The State of Hawaii hasn't violated any law by issuing copies of birth certificates that are not facsimiles of the original. |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sat Jun 28 15:45:52 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by AlM on Sat Jun 28 15:36:35 2008. he produced it? I thought he copied the image from a left wing blog site. Almost over a year since people were asking to see one.Now if only we could see that baptism certificate too. Hope there's more photoshop experts on site. "The State of Hawaii hasn't violated any law by issuing copies of birth certificates that are not facsimiles of the original." No they haven't, since they hadn't produced one in the first place, according to this article, which is spreading faster than I had expected. Sourcing close to the MSM by the hour. It's against the law for them to give one out to anyone except for families or individuals of the actual person it's for. |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sat Jun 28 15:47:06 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat Jun 28 07:46:02 2008. I see you said lunch made the response, not you, but all I see is you're S/N.How am I misinformed. Do you mean you really did make the response [several]? |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sat Jun 28 15:48:02 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jun 28 08:01:31 2008. It's okey when the NYTimes reprints a WND story 3 months later however. |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Jun 28 16:22:51 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sat Jun 28 15:45:52 2008. he produced it?Yes. He/his campaign gave the 21st century Hawaii copy to the Daily Kos. "The State of Hawaii hasn't violated any law by issuing copies of birth certificates that are not facsimiles of the original." No they haven't, since they hadn't produced one in the first place, according to this article, which is spreading faster than I had expected. Sourcing close to the MSM by the hour. It's against the law for them to give one out to anyone except for families or individuals of the actual person it's for. Exactly. The State of Hawaii provided a copy to Obama (who asked for it), and he passed it on to his campaign people, who passed it on to the Daily Kos. I think the Obama campaign is playing this all very well. I predict in a few more weeks his campaign will hold a press conference in Honolulu with a reputable State of Hawaii official there, and the official will say to hundreds of mainstream media cameras that this birth certificate is an authentic State of Hawaii document. And then the campaign can spend the next 3 months saying "look at those liars in the opposition - they even claimed Obama wasn't a born American." |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sat Jun 28 16:27:33 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by AlM on Sat Jun 28 16:22:51 2008. the article seems to suggest the opposite. Which makes more sense. Because, after over a year, why did the Obama site only get the copy after the Daily Kos, and a poorly created photobucket one at that. From how I understand it.Second, I still understand it doesn't all jive. Isn't there many versions of a birth certificate? Also, why's that stuff blacked out? Oh well, back to that pesky Maytag, Countrywide, rezko, all them iraqi's I can't pronounce, Ayers, Dodd, Conrad, trillion dollar jizra bill, etc etc and the stuff I already posted. |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Jun 28 16:42:43 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sat Jun 28 16:27:33 2008. Oh well, back to that pesky Maytag, Countrywide, rezko, all them iraqi's I can't pronounce, Ayers, Dodd, Conrad, trillion dollar jizra bill, etc etc and the stuff I already posted.It just occurred to me that this is all a case of life imitating fiction. Agatha Christie published the short story "The Augean Stables" in 1947. The plot (slightly simplified): the politician's enemies start to circulate rumors about the politician's wife. The rumors would be easily deniable but the politician doesn't do so. It builds for weeks and people start to believe the rumors are true. And then the politician produces the rock hard solid evidence that it's all a bunch of lies. And now when the enemies try to circulate more damaging stories (which ARE in fact true), no one believes them. |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sat Jun 28 16:53:46 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by AlM on Sat Jun 28 16:42:43 2008. Yep, which causes people to question why he evades such simple or potentially small stuff for so long. The Motivation. |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Jun 28 16:58:35 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sat Jun 28 16:53:46 2008. The Motivation.And if life is really imitating fiction here, you and all the other conservatives who will believe all negative news about Obama are falling right into the trap. |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat Jun 28 17:22:45 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sat Jun 28 15:47:06 2008. pluleese, is that the best you can do. |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sat Jun 28 22:41:41 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat Jun 28 17:22:45 2008. Whilst just 2 sentences in the same post(chronicallng your post). Still better than anything we've gotten from you thus far. |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sat Jun 28 22:45:23 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by AlM on Sat Jun 28 16:58:35 2008. Yea, the trap. It's an elaborate ploy by the media?Sorry if I use sarcasm as I don't get it. I'd turn back into a "liberal" via one post, but in the last few weeks, I've stopped believing in socialized healthcare. Although a lot can be done. If the basis to determine liberal or conservative is obama supporting, 90% of the country is probably to the right of him statistically speaking. Apparently the 42nd President is conservative now using that metric. |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sat Jun 28 22:58:21 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by AlM on Sat Jun 28 15:36:35 2008. I don't have any opinion as to where he was born. My only point was that your original comment that it would be pointless and nasty to enforce the law (if applicable) is a fairly cynical point of view. This would be no small matter, if true. |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Jun 29 07:15:30 2008, in response to Re: Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by Train Dude on Sat Jun 28 22:58:21 2008. This would be no small matter, if true.I agree with you 100% on that. Given the entire set of circumstances it seems to have just about zero chance of being true. |
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Re: Obamagate, fake citizen? |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun Jun 29 10:40:42 2008, in response to Obamagate, fake citizen?, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Jun 26 21:04:00 2008. "Nothing else explains why Obama's campaign refused to release the original paper document, to make this distracting controversy go way"If this document is forged, a U.S. senator and his presidential campaign have perpetrated a vast, long-term fraud." U.S. citizens who have written to Israel Insider or have posted on the Internet are not satisfied. Ordinary people are compelled to produce certified paper birth certificates to get a passport or a driver's license. Why, people are asking, doesn't Obama needed to show one to run for President? But I believe the Obama campaign would deliberately keep such a question alive to diminish the veracity of the real scandals Obama is guilty of (Rezko, Auchi, Wright, Nation of Islam, Malley, Powers, Odinga, corruption, lies etc.) So where is that birth certificate? It got lost? The dog ate it? No matter. Barack Obama or an immediate family member can plunk down $10 ($11.50 if he orders online) and have Hawaii mail a certified document to him within a week or two. But more than two weeks have passed since the Obama campaign adopted the suspect, uncertified image of a purported birth document published by a left-wing blog Daily Kos, and nothing certified and nothing on paper has since has been forthcoming. Nor has there been any official comment about the issue from the campaign. They may cling to the hope -- however audacious -- that the one issue that could disqualify their man constitutionally from gaining the presidency will just go away. So, even if the original blogger broke privacy rules and somehow got a hold of a birth cert that (s)he shouldn't have, pretty sleazy candidate to turn something into a big to-do when there wasn't one. More of that award winning judgement. |
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