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| I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time (2042347) | |
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Re: I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Tue Jun 30 00:27:47 2026, in response to I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time, posted by TRAIN DUDE on Mon Jun 29 21:40:18 2026. You don't negotiate with terrorists, PERIOD. Finish the job. Our idiot in chief is no different than Neville Chamberlain in 1938 Munich. Thank God for the real leader, Bibi Netanyahu, the Winston Churchill of our time. |
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Re: I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time |
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Posted by rkba on Tue Jun 30 06:42:26 2026, in response to Re: I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time, posted by Jeff Rosen on Tue Jun 30 00:27:47 2026. just renounce your citizenship. do not pass go, do not collect $200. go live over there instead. |
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Re: I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jun 30 07:16:51 2026, in response to I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time, posted by TRAIN DUDE on Mon Jun 29 21:40:18 2026. I'm no expertYour only post that has contained any semblance of truth. |
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Re: I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jun 30 08:42:34 2026, in response to Re: I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time, posted by Jeff Rosen on Tue Jun 30 00:27:47 2026. Thank God for the real leader, Bibi Netanyahu, the Winston Churchill of our time.Netanyahu reaction to the Oct 7th attack violated IDF doctrine that was formulated by Israel's founders. That doctrine stated that Israel could not win a war of attrition. As such, any military action must require total mobilization and require overwhelming ground troops. This was the doctrine that guided Israel during the 1956, 1967 and 1973 wars and Sharon's 1982 incursion into Lebanon. Netanyahu's Gaza campaign has relied on aerial bombing with a minimum of ground troops. It's been a war on the cheap in terms of manpower. It's the type of war of attrition that IDF doctrine cautioned against. It also results in war crimes because aerial bombing results in a large percentage of collateral damage. Hamas and Netanyahu have engaged in a symbiotic relationship because of their mutual aversion to a two-state solution. Hamas would attack Israel in small raids to discredit Israeli two-state solution advocates. The Netanyahu government would dismiss any Arab state or Palestinian peace feelers to discredit moderate Arab and Palestinian leaders. One example of Netanyahu's favoring Hamas was permitting the flow of money from Arab states to Hamas, shortly after returning to power in 2009. This was in contrast to the predecessor Olmert government of curtailing such payments (with the cooperation of the Arab government donars). The curtailment followed Olmert's successful Gaza War in 2008-2009. It was Churchill who said "Jaw-Jaw is better than war-war." |
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Re: I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time |
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Posted by TRAIN DUDE on Tue Jun 30 09:17:51 2026, in response to Re: I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time, posted by Jeff Rosen on Tue Jun 30 00:27:47 2026. I agree with your first sentence and to an extent, your last. I disagree that the president is an idiot or like neville Chamberlin. I believe that the president is ealking a line, trying to eliminate the psychos ruling iran while preserving the rest of the nation for the iranianswo want to be free of the repressive regime. I personally think that trying to thread that needle will never succeed. |
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Re: I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time |
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Posted by TRAIN DUDE on Tue Jun 30 09:24:13 2026, in response to Re: I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jun 30 07:16:51 2026. There-in lies the difference between us. In my field, I was very skilled and respected. Outside of that field i tend to defer to more knowledgeable persons. You, on the other hand, have shown yourself to be an ignira t mother-fucker who believes that he is an expert on everything but actually is pretty uninformed who parrots others words and opinions. |
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Re: I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time |
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Posted by Avid reader on Tue Jun 30 11:05:25 2026, in response to Re: I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jun 30 08:42:34 2026. For myself I'm a HAWK!When the Iranian's hit a ship with a drone, I'd drop a very important bridge on a supply route and drop one very important power plant. Oh yeah and shorten the time for a final agreement by one week! And to sweeten the deal use napalm on the drone launch site. |
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Re: I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jun 30 11:27:30 2026, in response to Re: I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jun 30 07:16:51 2026. IAWTP |
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Re: I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Jun 30 11:57:39 2026, in response to I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time, posted by TRAIN DUDE on Mon Jun 29 21:40:18 2026. I agree. What happened when to end and win a war, the enemy has to unconditionally surrender? The last war we won, WWII, Japan and Germany surrendered. So my question is to win this war, why can't we "finish the job" and bring Iran to its knees and have them wave the white flag? Just get it over. Maybe an oversimplification, but I'm just a simple guy. |
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Re: I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jun 30 13:09:04 2026, in response to Re: I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Jun 30 11:57:39 2026. Without using nuclear weapons, the only option would be ground troops. Now, I would support that, but most people wouldn’t. |
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Re: I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jun 30 17:20:25 2026, in response to Re: I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time, posted by Avid reader on Tue Jun 30 11:05:25 2026. I'd drop a very important bridge on a supply route and drop one very important power plant.One lesson that should have been learned from 9/11 is that "Fortress America" is no longer immune from military attack. The invention of drones has provided many more opportunities to attack the US besides turning passenger planes into missiles. Another lesson from globalization and Covid is that the US must rely on an international supply chain for critical goods. This means an entity does not need to directly attack the US to inflict substantial damage. The only way for an attack on Iran to be successful is regime change, followed by military occupation. Anything less would be interpreted as a victory in their convoluted logic. The requirement for military occupation is 20-25 soldiers per 1000 inhabitants. Otherwise, there will be a successful insurgency. Iran's population is 93 million. It will take 2.3 million army troops to occupy Iran for an indefinite period until the last vestiges of present regime's supporters are discredited in the eyes of the remaining population. Those 2.3 million necessary occupying troops constitute more than twice as much as the current regular and reserve army plus the National Guard. Increasing army strength to reach that requirement will most certainly require re-imposition of the draft. These are some of the costs for pursuing a hawk policy. How many people can be convinced to bear that cost? |
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Re: I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jun 30 17:30:52 2026, in response to Re: I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jun 30 17:20:25 2026. The requirement for military occupation is 20-25 soldiers per 1000 inhabitants. Otherwise, there will be a successful insurgency. Iran's population is 93 million. It will take 2.3 million army troops to occupy Iran for an indefinite period until the last vestiges of present regime's supporters are discredited in the eyes of the remaining population.Your numbers here probably assume that the appetite for an insurgency is evenly distributed amongst the entire population and is the same for any country, which isn't true. Iran would have an insurgency, but it would not be supported by the majority of its population. |
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Re: I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jun 30 17:36:08 2026, in response to Re: I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jun 30 17:30:52 2026. Far less than 50% of Iraq's population actively opposed US occupation. Maybe Stephen's numbers don't apply to Iran, but successful long-term regime change in Iran would still be extremely costly. |
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Re: I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jun 30 17:37:48 2026, in response to Re: I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Jun 30 11:57:39 2026. Just get it over.Are you willing to pay your share of the price? What if it required your son being drafted? |
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Re: I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jun 30 17:46:51 2026, in response to Re: I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time, posted by AlM on Tue Jun 30 17:36:08 2026. Like in Iraq, it would be concentrated in certain areas. In 1979 and before, opposition to the Shah's cultural and economic modernization (the White Revolution) was concentrated in rural areas, which are traditionally a hotbed of reactionism.I find it ironic that in the Iranian Revolution, the right-wing was the anti-monarchist side. That may be why the left didn't realize the folly of supporting Homomeini until it was too late. |
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Re: I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Jun 30 19:17:33 2026, in response to Re: I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time, posted by AlM on Tue Jun 30 17:37:48 2026. "Are you willing to pay your share of the price?"I do pay my share. Its called taxes. "What if it required your son being drafted?" When did they reinstitute the draft?? |
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Re: I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jun 30 19:44:41 2026, in response to Re: I'm Pretty Sure Trump Is Wrong This Time, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Jun 30 19:17:33 2026. They might have to if we choose to occupy Iran. That's way bigger than any military exercise we've done since Viet Nam - much bigger than Iraq or Afghanistan. |
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