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| Re: Horrible agreement (2027117) | |
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Re: Horrible agreement |
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Posted by subfan on Sat Oct 18 14:29:48 2025, in response to Re: Horrible agreement, posted by AlM on Thu Oct 16 14:49:19 2025. You are being either irrationally optimistic or deliberately obtuse. Within the next few months, calls will begin for Israel to "stop the occupation of Gaza", along with stories about poor Gazans who have been displaced by the war and it's aftermath. All these stories will ignore, if course, how we got into this situation - the 7 October 2023 attack by Hamas on Israel, which polls at the time showed was supported by the vast majority of Gazans.They had the ultimate FAFO experience - but the world already has largely forgotten about this in its focus on the plight of the "poor Gazans". We in Israel, though, don't have the luxury of forgetting. subfan |
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Re: Horrible agreement |
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Posted by subfan on Sat Oct 18 14:35:34 2025, in response to Re: Horrible agreement, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Oct 16 12:58:06 2025. Israel needs more than the US for its military needs; for example, engines for Israeli tanks come from Germany, and Germany Alo manufactures most Israeli submarines. Having the US backing Israel is, of course, critical - but (a) it's not enough on its own, and (b) is far from certain to continue if the next president is from the currently-ascendant progressive wing of the party.subfan |
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Re: Horrible agreement |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 18 14:39:26 2025, in response to Re: Horrible agreement, posted by subfan on Sat Oct 18 14:35:34 2025. for example, engines for Israeli tanks come from Germany, and Germany Alo manufactures most Israeli submarinesThat's a big mistake. Germany is still highly anti-Israel. |
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| (2027628) | |
Re: Horrible agreement |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Oct 18 14:48:17 2025, in response to Re: Horrible agreement, posted by subfan on Sat Oct 18 14:29:48 2025. Within the next few months, calls will begin for Israel to "stop the occupation of Gaza", along with stories about poor Gazans who have been displaced by the war and it's aftermath. All these stories will ignore, if course, how we got into this situation - the 7 October 2023 attack by Hamas on Israel, which polls at the time showed was supported by the vast majority of Gazans.I understand. I don't think those calls will generate even a fraction of the world response that was generated by the ongoing bombing of Gaza. I acknowledge that I might be irrationally optimistic. We'll see. |
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Re: Horrible agreement |
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Posted by subfan on Sat Oct 18 23:50:19 2025, in response to Re: Horrible agreement, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 18 14:39:26 2025. There are a limited number of manufacturers of powerful enough diesel engines - there's not much choice. There are also a very limited number of manufacturers of advanced diesel-electric submarines.It would be great in theory if Israel could be fully self-sufficient. But even if Israel had the manufacturing capabilities for everything it needs, it would still need to import the raw materials - so the world's view, unfortunately, must be taken into account at a strategic level. subfan |
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| (2027680) | |
Re: Horrible agreement |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Oct 19 00:28:04 2025, in response to Re: Horrible agreement, posted by subfan on Sat Oct 18 14:29:48 2025. Gaza should be destroyed for all time.I don’t give a shit about the future terrorists of Gaza. They accuse Israel of all manner of atrocities; Israel has no reputation to lose, they can make the lies of the Western Left come true. |
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| (2027727) | |
Re: Horrible agreement |
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Posted by subfan on Sun Oct 19 15:58:26 2025, in response to Re: Horrible agreement, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Oct 19 00:28:04 2025. That might seem nice conceptually, but unfortunately, the reality of international relations would not allow this. If the Gazans could be relocated to somewhere far, far away, where they just could not have any future impact on Israel, great - and I'm perfectly fine if they have wonderful lives there too. Unfortunately, a practical way of making that happen seems to not be in the cards as of now...subfan |
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| (2027728) | |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun Oct 19 16:11:33 2025, in response to Re: Horrible agreement, posted by subfan on Sun Oct 19 15:58:26 2025. Why won't it allow this? Kuwait and Jordan have had good examples of how to deal with the so-called people of "palestein" in the past.Do you think things have changed in that many years? Well, there's the example of Pakistan cleansing their lands of Afghans in the dead of winter in 2024, or Iran cleaning its borders after the Israel war in 2025. I see no harm in international relations there. If anything, relocating the Gazans to an Island IS within the protocol of international laws and standards. Feeding them and allowing them to stay is in breach of the global status quo. |
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| (2027744) | |
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Posted by subfan on Sun Oct 19 17:27:38 2025, in response to Re: Horrible agreement, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun Oct 19 16:11:33 2025. Kuwait and Jordan displaced non-citizens living in their respective countries, while the world sees Gazan Arabs as being the "rightful occupants" of Gaza. Also, rightly or wrongly, Israel is held to a ridiculous standard by world opinion - and while it's ridiculous, there are real-world consequences.subfan |
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Posted by Chicagomotorman on Sun Oct 19 17:47:13 2025, in response to Re: Horrible agreement, posted by subfan on Sun Oct 19 17:27:38 2025. No, it is wrongly. Israel is held to that standard because of anti Semitism. |
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| (2027750) | |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Oct 19 17:49:55 2025, in response to Re: Horrible agreement, posted by Chicagomotorman on Sun Oct 19 17:47:13 2025. IAWTP |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun Oct 19 18:21:57 2025, in response to Re: Horrible agreement, posted by subfan on Sun Oct 19 17:27:38 2025. Kuwait expelled every single person who claimed to be from palestein, without exception.Jordan killed much more than the Gazan war ever did or will. Sugar-coating it shows bias. Israel is following the lead of Iran, Kuwait, Pakistan, Jordan, etc etc who suffer no "real world consequences". This is not the UK, there are not two-tiers. |
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| (2027757) | |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 19 19:16:38 2025, in response to Re: Horrible agreement, posted by Chicagomotorman on Sun Oct 19 17:47:13 2025. Correct. Not to mention the lust the European left seems to have for the "holy land" as they term it. |
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| (2027759) | |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 19 19:17:44 2025, in response to Re: Horrible agreement, posted by subfan on Sun Oct 19 17:27:38 2025. Why would you permit "rightly" when you know it's always wrongly? |
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| (2027762) | |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Oct 19 19:27:01 2025, in response to Re: Horrible agreement, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 19 19:16:38 2025. "Holy Land" is also a common term among American Christians. |
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Posted by subfan on Mon Oct 20 01:01:00 2025, in response to Re: Horrible agreement, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun Oct 19 18:21:57 2025. OK, you clearly must know more about international affairs as they relate to Israel than I do, right? Notwithstanding the fact that (a) I live here, and (b) as part of my professional responsibilities, I regularly do consulting work with various government entities that deal with such issues.subfan |
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| (2027788) | |
Re: Horrible agreement |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 20 06:06:53 2025, in response to Re: Horrible agreement, posted by subfan on Mon Oct 20 01:01:00 2025. you clearly must know more about international affairs as they relate to Israel than I do, right?When one gets defensive like that, that's a confession to one having a lot of ignorance, yes. And no, living in Israel does not give a left-leaning person a unique perspective, but displays the bubble mentality, frankly. |
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| (2027791) | |
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Posted by subfan on Mon Oct 20 07:04:10 2025, in response to Re: Horrible agreement, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 20 06:06:53 2025. When one continues to insist that he knows better than one who deals with the issues on a professional basis regularly, it's a sign that one is talking out of his hindquarters.I clearly explained the differences between Kuwait and Jordan on the one hand and Israel on the other, which you proceed to blithely ignore. I'm not arguing what would be nice to do - I'm arguing about what is possible to do, given the reality in which Israel exists. You want to call me a leftist as a result? That's your prerogative - but it has as much validity as if you called me a "stupid poopy head". I'm speaking about a subject I'm actually a recognized authority in - so given your demonstrated lack of knowledge of the field, your comments are almost kind of funny... subfan |
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| (2027792) | |
Re: Horrible agreement |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Oct 20 08:28:04 2025, in response to Re: Horrible agreement, posted by subfan on Mon Oct 20 07:04:10 2025. Olog believes he expresses the official views of American Evangelical Christianity. His views are ordained by God and all contrary views have no value at best. |
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| (2027793) | |
Re: Horrible agreement |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Mon Oct 20 09:29:33 2025, in response to Re: Horrible agreement, posted by subfan on Mon Oct 20 01:01:00 2025. "about international affairs as they relate to Israel than I do, right? Notwithstanding the fact that (a) I live here, "So do I. I also live on the planet Earth. Where you are trying to create a brand new set of rules for Israel that does not exist for anyone on earth at this time. You give me nothing but old 2002-era conspiracies as though they are fact. " (b) as part of my professional responsibilities, I regularly do consulting" Ignoring the fact that consultants are useless (See Starbucks news this morning), I suggest you find another line of work where people will not be harmed by your opinions. Because all you have done is proved the existance of G-d. There is no other explanation for the survival of Israel dispite the self-pitying and pathetic wusses they have in charge trying to sabotage themselves every step of the way. |
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| (2027794) | |
Re: Horrible agreement |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Mon Oct 20 09:31:29 2025, in response to Re: Horrible agreement, posted by subfan on Mon Oct 20 07:04:10 2025. "When one continues to insist that he knows better than one who deals with the issues on a professional basis regularly, it's a sign that one is talking out of his hindquarters."You're right, it's very hard to respect you. If you want to be in politics, you need to be stronger than the people you insult regularly. ANother example of wanting a two-tier system. Keep 'em coming. |
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| (2027795) | |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Mon Oct 20 09:35:33 2025, in response to Re: Horrible agreement, posted by AlM on Mon Oct 20 08:28:04 2025. You express the views of who? France and ENgland and other white saviors who know better than the Arab world of what is going on and what to do? |
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| (2027796) | |
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Posted by chicagoMotorman on Mon Oct 20 09:36:34 2025, in response to Re: Horrible agreement, posted by Jeff Rosen on Wed Oct 15 19:10:32 2025. I agree with what you are saying except for what you put in parenthesis. |
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| (2027803) | |
Re: Horrible agreement |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Oct 20 10:29:18 2025, in response to Re: Horrible agreement, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Mon Oct 20 09:35:33 2025. Which views of mine are you referring to? |
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| (2027814) | |
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Posted by subfan on Mon Oct 20 13:46:34 2025, in response to Re: Horrible agreement, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Mon Oct 20 09:29:33 2025. Blah, blah, blah - fine, if you say so. Let me know when you're asked to provide input to the Israeli government next.Note that I don't always agree with the Government's decisions - but that's fine. I provide input and analysis in my area, and others make the decisions, based at least in part on my input. International relations are one of the fields of battle, whether you want to recognize that or not. subfan |
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Posted by subfan on Mon Oct 20 13:48:25 2025, in response to Re: Horrible agreement, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Mon Oct 20 09:31:29 2025. I'd be a horrible politician - I'm not a pathological liar, and nuance does not play well to the masses. That's why I do my work behind the scenes - but my role definitely gives me more information and insights than the chattering classes here.subfan |
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Re: Horrible agreement |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Oct 20 14:34:23 2025, in response to Re: Horrible agreement, posted by chicagoMotorman on Mon Oct 20 09:36:34 2025. I agree with your disagreement. Population exchange is the only practical solution at this point. |
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| (2027819) | |
Re: Horrible agreement |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 20 14:46:10 2025, in response to Re: Horrible agreement, posted by subfan on Mon Oct 20 07:04:10 2025. When one continues to insist that he knows better than one who deals with the issues on a professional basis regularly, it's a sign that one is talking out of his hindquartersThat's a fair point. Problem is, nobody made such a claim, so you saying that is a red herring. You're the only one who is claiming some sort of a high ground in terms of perspective, though. |
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| (2027821) | |
Re: Horrible agreement |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Mon Oct 20 14:49:44 2025, in response to Re: Horrible agreement, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 20 14:46:10 2025. Brah didn't even know common knowledge about the region or even current events of the region, or international law.Passed the litmus test to be cancelled if it wasn't dangerous. |
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Posted by subfan on Mon Oct 20 17:42:32 2025, in response to Re: Horrible agreement, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Mon Oct 20 14:49:44 2025. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.I claim knowledge of the region from the inside, and perspective based on needing to deal with things as part of my job responsibilities. Yo give an analogy, your trying to lecture me on Israel's interactions with the Middle East is like trying to tell Train Dude how the braking system on an R-68 works. You may have some knowledge, be able to ask reasonable questions, and have some insight - but you're just out of your depth when it comes to detailed understanding of the actual details and considerations on the ground. subfan |
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