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| Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy (1981370) | |
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| (1981370) | |
Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Fri Apr 26 16:27:06 2024 Much sooner than later NYC will be taking a metaphorical sledgehammer to the face when - not if - the commercial real estate market collapses. Sure, it was an idiotic thing for the city to have an eggs-in-one-basket economy hugely dependent on people commuting to Manhattan offices, but no one can change that.Going forward, when things get bad, municipal bankruptcy just might be the solution. Not just be shedding debt, though that would be a benefit, but by taking control of the government away from the voters, who have proven their incompetence, and putting in the hands of bankruptcy trustees who are beholden to no one. The trustees would be able to make unpopular, even hated, decisions that would be immensely beneficial in the long run. Things like slashing spending, including cuts to the overstaffed NYPD and FDNY; breaking the stranglehold of the municipal unions; and vastly changing or even elimination zoning so that factories can pop up. Short term pain, long term gain. |
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| (1981371) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Apr 26 16:34:45 2024, in response to Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by Peter Rosa on Fri Apr 26 16:27:06 2024. LOL! |
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| (1981372) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Fri Apr 26 16:44:10 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Apr 26 16:34:45 2024. So, what do you suggest, with the city economy heading for collapse as office leases go unrenewed? |
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| (1981376) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Apr 26 17:10:41 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by Peter Rosa on Fri Apr 26 16:44:10 2024. You may as well convert all of those unused offices to prisons.A) there's no difference if your whole economy is dependent on outdated and useless facilities that tie people to a purposeless location B) The criminal element is so rampent, there is nearly unlimited demand in NYC. Two problems solved. |
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| (1981383) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Fri Apr 26 17:21:00 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Apr 26 17:10:41 2024. Decisions throughout history.Napoleon, 1812: "Let's invade Russia, it'll be a breeze!" Abraham Lincoln, 1865: "Mary, want to go to the theater tonight?" Franz Ferdinand's driver, 1914: "I think this is the right road, I'll try it." NYC municipal officials, mid-20th century: "We don't need these ugly old factories, fancy offices are the way to go!" |
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| (1981387) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Apr 26 17:30:53 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by Peter Rosa on Fri Apr 26 17:21:00 2024. I'm glad you say that, because I never get a piece of mail from New York that is good news or something that I want. |
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| (1981390) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Apr 26 17:47:46 2024, in response to Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by Peter Rosa on Fri Apr 26 16:27:06 2024. when - not if - the commercial real estate market collapsesA lot of the capital in those buildings was invested by banks, not the developers. If Chase, say, has a $50 billion loss the layoffs will be all over the country, not just in NYC. The developers themselves will just pull a Trump and have specific subsidiaries go bankrupt. They'll survive just like Trump survived his bankruptcies. |
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| (1981393) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Apr 26 17:51:27 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by AlM on Fri Apr 26 17:47:46 2024. You assume Chase has all of its operations in the US and they didn't offshore and subcontract large tracts of their companies. Contract terminations with sub contractors never make the news. Journolists can't follow that level of complexity. |
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| (1981396) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri Apr 26 17:55:02 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by Peter Rosa on Fri Apr 26 17:21:00 2024. Trying to maintain factories nobody wants for decades when somebody is willing to use the property for more profitable purposes isn't really helpful either. That would've constrained the city for decades and maybe even blighted those areas. Besides, how many of those factories and warehouses were repurposed into residences and small business locations? Examples: Domino Sugar, DUMBO, Swingline. |
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| (1981397) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Apr 26 17:58:07 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by 3-9 on Fri Apr 26 17:55:02 2024. Well you better find a new use for them, in a country where everyone poo-poo's office towers. Because we have a thing called the internet and folks want to live elsewhere, and companies only want Indians to do those jobs. |
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| (1981398) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri Apr 26 18:01:22 2024, in response to Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by Peter Rosa on Fri Apr 26 16:27:06 2024. Things like slashing spending, including cuts to the overstaffed NYPD and FDNY; breaking the stranglehold of the municipal unions; and vastly changing or even elimination zoning so that factories can pop up. Short term pain, long term gain.Cutting the NYPD and FDNY sounds like what was tried in the '60s and early '70s, and as you know it did not turn out well. IMO, NYC needs at least 2 major things: reliable mass transit and a low crime rate. Cutting the NYPD doesn't sound like you'll maintain the latter. As for zoning, I don't think that's going to help bring back factories. Real estate is too expensive to start new factories, or at least big ones, and the people will go to court to stop messy factories in their neighborhoods. |
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| (1981399) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri Apr 26 18:05:20 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Apr 26 17:58:07 2024. The most likely new purpose will be residences. Much less profitable than commercial real estate, but a much less complicated purpose to set up than a factory. |
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| (1981400) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Apr 26 18:05:44 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by 3-9 on Fri Apr 26 18:01:22 2024. Fun fact. In almost all major cities in the US, almost half of the water is wasted through leaking pipes in old cities in neighborhoods where they aren't needed anymore. You're paying for water no one uses.You people have bigger problems than the fire department and artisan factories that are doing fine elsewhere. |
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| (1981402) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri Apr 26 18:10:43 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Apr 26 18:05:44 2024. I don't know of too many neighborhoods in NYC that no longer need water. That doesn't mean there aren't leaky pipes - that's one of the reasons why Tunnel #3 was built: to allow #1 and #2 to be shut down to fix leaks. |
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| (1981404) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Apr 26 18:35:19 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by 3-9 on Fri Apr 26 18:10:43 2024. According to the HuffPost a few years ago, 30% of the water in NYC is lost before it ever reaches a customer to bill them.You're paying for 30% of the water that isn't even used. In a city that big. That's a big bill. |
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| (1981410) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Fri Apr 26 21:19:06 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by 3-9 on Fri Apr 26 18:01:22 2024. IMO, NYC needs at least 2 major things: reliable mass transit and a low crime rate. Cutting the NYPD doesn't sound like you'll maintain the latter.Two words: permitless carry. |
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| (1981411) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Fri Apr 26 21:50:37 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by 3-9 on Fri Apr 26 18:01:22 2024. Right now there is a big problem with hiring and retaining and retiring NYPD.They are in danger of falling below 30,000 officers which would be the lowest in decades. NYPD wants to offer pension money to cops eligible for retirement. I think they will get $12,000 per year added to their final pension if they postpone retirement for a few years. |
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| (1981413) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Apr 26 21:54:21 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by Peter Rosa on Fri Apr 26 21:19:06 2024. LOL! |
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| (1981414) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Fri Apr 26 21:56:45 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by LuchAAA on Fri Apr 26 21:50:37 2024. Forgot to say, Adams reinstated two academy classes of the four that he postponed. |
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| (1981416) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Apr 26 22:27:31 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by Peter Rosa on Fri Apr 26 21:19:06 2024. "Two words: permitless carry."So cut the police and let everyone carry guns is good for the city?? Have you lost your mind?? |
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| (1981417) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Apr 26 22:32:28 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Apr 26 22:27:31 2024. IAWTPAnd I support concealed carry, just with a fair “shall issue” scheme. |
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| (1981420) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Fri Apr 26 22:44:23 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Apr 26 22:27:31 2024. States with permitless carry:Alabama; Alaska; Arizona; Arkansas; Florida; Georgia; Idaho; Indiana; Iowa; Kansas; Kentucky; Louisiana (effective 7/1); Maine; Mississippi; Missouri; Montana; Nebraska; New Hampshire; North Dakota; Ohio; Oklahoma; South Carolina; South Dakota; Tennessee; Texas; Utah; Vermont; West Virginia; Wyoming. There is no reason whatsoever why New York has to be different. |
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| (1981421) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Apr 26 23:10:48 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by Peter Rosa on Fri Apr 26 22:44:23 2024. Most of those states either have higher crime rates or are rural. Permitless carry is ridiculous. |
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| (1981423) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sat Apr 27 00:37:07 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Apr 26 22:27:31 2024. IAWTP |
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| (1981432) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Apr 27 08:24:10 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by Peter Rosa on Fri Apr 26 21:19:06 2024. Right. Statistics show an excellent correlation between permitless carry and lower crime rates. |
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| (1981433) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Apr 27 09:00:53 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Apr 26 22:32:28 2024. And once NY has to really implement "fair issue," they will do it with training requirements so that kids of gun owners are protected. |
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| (1981434) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Apr 27 09:25:48 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by AlM on Sat Apr 27 09:00:53 2024. Training requirements for gun ownership are a complicated issue. Given the inherent danger of guns it does make a great deal of sense to require training. Not just in terms of safe storage and handling, but also with the much more complicated issue of when it's justifiable to shoot and when it isn't - just because you're in a confrontation with a ghetto gangbanger/drug addict/schizophrenic does not mean deadly force is justified (though a high rate of carry may deter attacks).The drawback of training requirements is that anti-gun states like New York can use them as just another regulatory hoop through which people have to jump. On balance, though, they're not a bad idea. |
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| (1981436) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Apr 27 09:40:10 2024, in response to Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by Peter Rosa on Fri Apr 26 16:27:06 2024. When I came across the title of this thread I knew right away who started it.The city’s finances are just fine by the way. |
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| (1981437) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Apr 27 09:40:10 2024, in response to Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by Peter Rosa on Fri Apr 26 16:27:06 2024. When I came across the title of this thread I knew right away who started it.The city’s finances are just fine by the way. |
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| (1981438) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Apr 27 09:44:35 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Apr 27 09:40:10 2024. The city's finances may be in good shape - for now. It will not last. As more and more WFH-emptied office buildings go into default all bets are off. |
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| (1981440) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by rkba on Sat Apr 27 10:04:22 2024, in response to Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by Peter Rosa on Fri Apr 26 16:27:06 2024. pension envy strikes again.keep dreaming, chief. remember, it's just a speeding ticket. it'll be okay. |
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| (1981456) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Apr 27 11:19:15 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Apr 27 09:44:35 2024. 1. The decrease in rental occupancy will happen gradually. This will allow developers time to convert some of the most suitable office buildings to luxury housing.2. By now there is a lot of hybrid work where people come in 3 days a week. Amazingly, those days tend to be overwhelmingly Tuesday through Thursday. Also, departments have all-hands meetings where everyone has to be there on a given day. So hybrid employers still need space for every employee to have a desk at the same time. 3. Some tenants have over-shrunk their space. I think my employer has. On Tuesdays through Thursdays the space is so crowded as to damage productivity. I won't be surprised if they expand their space by 25%. |
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| (1981457) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Apr 27 11:23:36 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Apr 27 09:25:48 2024. The drawback of training requirements is that anti-gun states like New York can use them as just another regulatory hoop through which people have to jump. The current Supreme Court will make NY justify any training requirements as being necessary for improved safety. |
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| (1981459) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Apr 27 11:55:19 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by AlM on Sat Apr 27 11:19:15 2024. I suppose hybrid work isn't too economically destructive. At least not compared to full-time WFH. |
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| (1981460) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Apr 27 12:03:50 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by AlM on Sat Apr 27 11:23:36 2024. Many of the gun stores here in Suffolk offer training courses for pistol permits. They all have the same required curriculum, 16 hours classroom training and two hours range time. Costs vary a little but mostly run about $400.The classroom training covers the following topics: General firearm safety Firearm safety storage NYS and Federal gun laws Concealed Carry situational awareness – firearm display and concealment Conflict de-escalation tactics Adverse alcohol and drug effects and firearm safety Best practices when encountering law enforcement Statutorily defined sensitive and restrictive places Conflict management Use of deadly physical force Suicide prevention Basic principles of marksmanship |
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Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Apr 27 14:34:50 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Apr 27 12:03:50 2024. Very good. In some states none of that is required. |
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| (1981508) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by rkba on Sat Apr 27 16:45:22 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Apr 27 12:03:50 2024. what an absolute travesty. |
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| (1981509) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by rkba on Sat Apr 27 16:46:27 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by AlM on Sat Apr 27 14:34:50 2024. why do you believe in constitutional rights only for those who can afford them?explain away, al, we'd love to hear you rationalise this one. |
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| (1981510) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Apr 27 16:50:35 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by rkba on Sat Apr 27 16:46:27 2024. Guns aren’t cheap. Should the 2nd amendment be treated like the 6th where people who can’t afford them be given free guns? |
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| (1981511) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by rkba on Sat Apr 27 16:52:08 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Apr 27 16:50:35 2024. of course you'd come up with a dumb response. is there anything going on between your ears? |
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| (1981522) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Apr 27 19:22:59 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by rkba on Sat Apr 27 16:46:27 2024. No clause of the Constitution is absolute.Just like people can be fired from their jobs for calling for death to Jews, and can be charged with a crime for shouting fire in a crowded theater, they can be denied guns if they are unwilling to use them safely. If a state wants to offer free gun safety programs for the indigent, I have no problem with that. |
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| (1981542) | |
Re: Why, NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 28 00:57:22 2024, in response to Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by Peter Rosa on Fri Apr 26 16:27:06 2024. Going forward, when things get bad, municipal bankruptcy just might be the solution. Not just be shedding debt, though that would be a benefit, but by taking control of the government away from the voters, who have proven their incompetence, and putting in the hands of bankruptcy trustees who are beholden to no oneLOL, I guess you just wanted to announce that you're for top-down authoritarian government and couldn't hold back. Never mind the fact that you actually believe NYC elections are legitimate and fraud-free. Things like slashing spending, including cuts to the overstaffed NYPD and FDNY; breaking the stranglehold of the municipal unions; and vastly changing or even elimination (of) zoning so that factories can pop up. Short term pain, long term gain LOL again. Your fictitious (for now) Roman dictators would do nothing of the sort. |
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| (1981554) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 28 04:44:35 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Apr 26 22:27:31 2024. Actually, that's what the Second Amendment upholds, minus the bit about cutting the police. |
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| (1981557) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy? |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Apr 28 09:21:31 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy?, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 28 04:44:35 2024. Problem is the Second Amendment is not recognized in NYC. |
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| (1981558) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Apr 28 09:28:19 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by AlM on Sat Apr 27 11:23:36 2024. Following that line of thought about safety, Maybe they can make them justify the need for Drivers Ed or learners permit's before you get your drivers license? |
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| (1981568) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Apr 28 13:16:01 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Apr 28 09:28:19 2024. Huh?Why would you think that a learner's permit or driver's ed is not merited? |
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| (1981571) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 28 13:56:44 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy?, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Apr 28 09:21:31 2024. It's the supreme law of the land. The NYC council and mayor have abrogated the law of the land and therefore their authority should not be recognized. |
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| (1981572) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 28 14:01:02 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Apr 28 09:28:19 2024. Arms keeping and bearing is a right whereas driving is a privilege. |
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| (1981577) | |
Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Apr 28 14:37:01 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 28 14:01:02 2024. Driving is not a privilege. You've been had by the DMV propaganda. |
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Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Apr 28 14:47:11 2024, in response to Re: Why NYC could benefit from municipal bankruptcy, posted by AlM on Sun Apr 28 13:16:01 2024. You misunderstood. Its not about "merit". Its about being qualified to drive a car based on proper training, like what should happen if you want to own gun. |
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