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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Nov 22 22:28:16 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Nov 22 14:47:07 2020.

Except it wasn't murder.

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(1788716)

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Nov 22 22:32:21 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Nov 22 22:01:40 2020.

Most of them werenít.

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(1788717)

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Nov 22 22:32:47 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Nov 22 22:04:45 2020.

And he was resisting arrest.

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(1788718)

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by pragmatist on Sun Nov 22 22:45:39 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Nov 22 22:32:47 2020.

Resisting arrest is a poor excuse for applying the type and level of force used. What is really wrong is the NYPD picked a scapegoat, and ran away from going after supervision at the scene.. Legal justification is very different from moral or practical justification. A choke hold was not illegal in NY State at the time of the incident, so all the "illegal choke hold" stuff was media and agitator hype, but it was clearly not permitted in that circumstance by the NYPD Patrol Guide..

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(1788719)

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Sun Nov 22 22:55:38 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Nov 22 21:35:35 2020.

Yeah, she's as wrong as a fish is wet

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by Train Dude on Sun Nov 22 23:01:20 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Nov 22 22:32:47 2020.

If anything, he died because of his obesity compounded by the fact that the typical NYC EMS refused to treat the fat slob.

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(1788721)

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Sun Nov 22 23:11:05 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Nov 22 22:32:21 2020.

But they were. Not saying that they weren't tragic mishaps, but still...

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Nov 22 23:14:57 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by Train Dude on Sun Nov 22 23:01:20 2020.

Ems dispatch has a deadly history.

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by Easy on Sun Nov 22 23:15:02 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Nov 22 22:01:40 2020.

Thatís ridiculous. Iím not familiar with all of them but the cop that shot Oscar Grant went to prison.

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by AlM on Mon Nov 23 03:04:28 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by pragmatist on Sun Nov 22 22:45:39 2020.

I do marvel at the people who say that because the chokehold was not illegal, the officer shouldn't be fired.



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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Mon Nov 23 03:21:27 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by BILLBKLYN on Sun Nov 22 17:59:44 2020.

?????????????????????

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 23 06:42:29 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by BILLBKLYN on Sun Nov 22 19:16:19 2020.

Tell ya what: Let me shoot somebody who is lying prone and bleeding, after I already shot him once. There isn't a competent DA in the world who couldn't convince a judge that my second shot shows extreme intent.

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(1788731)

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 23 06:44:46 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by BILLBKLYN on Sun Nov 22 19:22:54 2020.

Someone was at the scene with a video camera before EMS removed the victim's? That would be within ten to twelve minutes of the first 911 call. This was 1984, there were no cell phone cameras...

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 23 06:45:20 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Nov 22 19:23:57 2020.

He wasn't sitting up. He was on his stomach.

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 23 06:47:04 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by BILLBKLYN on Sun Nov 22 19:51:38 2020.

The Minneapolis ME did not cite Fentanyl poisoning as a cause of George Floyd's death. He cited manual neck and chest compression. We've already been over this.

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 23 06:47:34 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by BILLBKLYN on Sun Nov 22 19:55:11 2020.

No, it isn't.

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 23 06:49:37 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Nov 22 22:01:40 2020.

No, they weren't.

You don't really believe being shot to death while eating ice cream in your own living room is "justified", do you?

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by ntrainride on Mon Nov 23 06:51:03 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by pragmatist on Sun Nov 22 22:45:39 2020.

you do realize, don't you that the ratio of "civilians" causing harm, mayhem and jes' good ol' fashioned torture and death compared to law enforcement committing said activities is probably, oh...millions to one, right?

if only there was such a thing as a "perp review guide". with strict adherence.

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 23 06:52:44 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Nov 22 23:14:57 2020.

I have said several times that the EMS crew who responded to the Garner incident finished him off, by grossly failing to do their jobs. How that backs up to include the dispatcher, is beyond me.

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by pragmatist on Mon Nov 23 07:32:02 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by Train Dude on Sun Nov 22 23:01:20 2020.

Actually, the EMS folks on the scene were voluntary hospital (RUMC) employees, not NYC, but they were working under the EMS system.

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 23 08:13:59 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by pragmatist on Mon Nov 23 07:32:02 2020.

Almost immediately after the Garner video was made public, FDNY suspended both crews (that failed to treat Garner) from working in the 911 system. The hospital put them all out on the street shortly thereafter.

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by Train Dude on Mon Nov 23 08:24:40 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by pragmatist on Mon Nov 23 07:32:02 2020.

Does that mean that they could not treat garner if they chose not to??

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by Train Dude on Mon Nov 23 08:27:23 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by pragmatist on Sun Nov 22 22:45:39 2020.

Obviously they couldn't go after the supervisor because her demographics offer her almost blanket immunity in issues of poor performance of her duties.

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(1788749)

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by Train Dude on Mon Nov 23 08:28:49 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 23 06:42:29 2020.

Idiotic argumrnt

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by Train Dude on Mon Nov 23 08:36:22 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 23 06:47:04 2020.

Actually you are wrong. ABC News and AP both reported on August 30 and Sept 10 & 11, a combination of Fentanyl and meth was one of the causes of death. They also claim that the knee was a maximum restraint hold taught by the Minneapolis PD


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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by Train Dude on Mon Nov 23 08:37:52 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 23 06:52:44 2020.

Many things seem to be beyond you.

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 23 08:49:06 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by Train Dude on Mon Nov 23 08:36:22 2020.

I'm going to respond to you just this one time, because what you just posted is completely false.

While the Hennepin County ME and an independent autopsy done by Floyd's family differ in their proximate cause of death (heart failure vs. asphyxiation), both autopsies cite the role of the police in causing Floyd's death. In other words, but for Chauvin kneeling on Floyd's neck for almost nine minutes, the incident wouldn't have ended in murder.

"The autopsy report from Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office concludes the cause of death was "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression." That conclusion, death due to heart failure, differs from the one reached by an independent examiner hired by the Floyd family; that report listed the cause of death as "asphyxiation from sustained pressure."

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by pragmatist on Mon Nov 23 08:52:31 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by Train Dude on Mon Nov 23 08:27:23 2020.

ya think?....that happens on so many levels, politicians pressure brass for positive numbers so they look good, brass pressures subordinates, shortcuts get taken, procedures that work both to protect officers and the public get short changed, and bad things happen...guy on the bottom gets all of the blame.....

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by pragmatist on Mon Nov 23 08:52:32 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by Train Dude on Mon Nov 23 08:27:23 2020.

ya think?....that happens on so many levels, politicians pressure brass for positive numbers so they look good, brass pressures subordinates, shortcuts get taken, procedures that work both to protect officers and the public get short changed, and bad things happen...guy on the bottom gets all of the blame.....

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Mon Nov 23 08:53:05 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 23 08:49:06 2020.

Translation, only white folks should be locked up without bail. Everyone else goes free until their trial date.


And such an upstanding fine citizen with covid and drugs in his system. He would've followed Bidens lockdown today if he were still alive.

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by bingbong on Mon Nov 23 09:12:02 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by BILLBKLYN on Sun Nov 22 21:08:49 2020.

which means those people attempting to disarm him functioning in self-defense, Ritenhouse had ALREADY SHOT AND KILLED SOMEONE before the cameras were turned on.

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 23 09:15:08 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by pragmatist on Mon Nov 23 08:52:31 2020.

The sergeant in the Garner case most certainly was cited for failure to supervise.

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by bingbong on Mon Nov 23 09:16:39 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Nov 22 21:35:35 2020.

Itís not "self defenseÖon the part of a multiple murderer when they kill people seeking to disarm a homicidal maniac. Itís the victims that were killed attempting to defend themselves and others.

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(1788780)

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon Nov 23 10:12:38 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 23 06:42:29 2020.

Not true! Happens all the time.

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon Nov 23 10:14:20 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 23 06:44:46 2020.

No shit! Yes, there's a video of them still in the car, along with Goetz. We watched it as part of training.

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon Nov 23 10:15:03 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 23 06:47:04 2020.

WAJZ

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(1788793)

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 23 10:43:01 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon Nov 23 10:12:38 2020.

Really? I don't believe you.

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 23 10:46:52 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon Nov 23 10:14:20 2020.

If Goetz himself was in the his purported video, how did he manage to lower himself to the tracks, walk to the 14th Street station, then escape all the way to New Hampshire? Who shot this alleged footage?

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by Easy on Mon Nov 23 11:01:58 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 23 06:42:29 2020.

You donít get it. While your dedication to the sanctity of an aggressors life over even your own is admirable, itís not for most of us. The intent of every shot is to neutralize the threat to your life by likely killing the person. That pretty much goes without saying. You donít have to argue that you were only trying to wound for it to be self defense.

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Nov 23 11:03:28 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by BILLBKLYN on Sun Nov 22 19:16:19 2020.

Also the 5 shots were all fired in rapid succession (witnesses testified that there were no pauses between the shots). There wasn't enough time for Goetz to truly determine if Cabey was incapacitated. In any event, he only shot Cabey once. The final shot was likely the one that missed.

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Nov 23 11:06:22 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 23 06:42:29 2020.

That a competent DA could convince a jury isn't proof that you're guilty, it's proof that your own lawyer is incompetent. That's because self-defense is an "affirmative defense," which means it has to be proven by the defendant. The prosecution does not have to prove the absence of self-defense.

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Nov 23 11:12:31 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon Nov 23 10:14:20 2020.

There can't possibly be video of them with Goetz. Goetz escaped before any police responded who might have had video cameras. There were no surveillance cameras.

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by chicagomotorman on Mon Nov 23 11:16:39 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Mon Nov 23 03:21:27 2020.

figures

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 23 11:17:55 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by Easy on Mon Nov 23 11:01:58 2020.

I'm still not sure how "insurance rounds" qualify as self-defense in New York State, which Imposes a legal "duty to retreat" from an attacker, not shoot them again once they're down and bleeding.

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Nov 23 11:24:04 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 23 11:17:55 2020.

Retreat from a moving subway car? The duty to retreat only applies where there is a reasonable expectation of ability to retreat. Nobody expects an amateur to be able to be so precise with their shooting that they would not fire twice at any one person.

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Mon Nov 23 11:36:23 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by chicagomotorman on Mon Nov 23 11:16:39 2020.

????????????????????????????????

!!!!

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Mon Nov 23 11:37:21 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by BILLBKLYN on Sun Nov 22 15:25:19 2020.

STFU

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(1788812)

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Mon Nov 23 11:41:24 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by Train Dude on Mon Nov 23 08:28:49 2020.

You saw an argument? I saw someones inner fantasy.

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Nov 23 12:13:01 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Mon Nov 23 11:36:23 2020.

WHAT ???

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Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail

Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Nov 23 12:13:49 2020, in response to Re: Rittenhouse Makes Bail, posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Mon Nov 23 11:37:21 2020.

lol

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