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(1775669)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by Joe V on Thu Oct 8 07:10:46 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Oct 8 03:08:16 2020.

The 6-3 SCOTUS will overturn RvW.

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(1775691)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by Train Dude on Thu Oct 8 09:04:47 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by Joe V on Thu Oct 8 07:10:46 2020.

And how does that affect you?

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(1775692)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by Catfish 44 on Thu Oct 8 09:31:58 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Oct 8 03:08:16 2020.

Abortions are as important to Irish as whiskey?


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(1775822)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu Oct 8 13:56:56 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by Joe V on Thu Oct 8 07:10:46 2020.

No they won't.

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(1775833)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Oct 8 14:11:36 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Oct 8 03:08:16 2020.

your mothers country voted overwhelmingly in favor of abortion. more than 60%

Strawman, #37. That's due to abandonment of their Catholic roots and embracing atheism or paganism. You know nothing about what's happened in Ireland over the past half-century; all you prove is your utter ignorance in general.

here in the US your mothers ancestors

Don't have any ancestors among the Higginses or Purcells, #37. And establishing PP was out of atheistic eugenicistic ideology, not anything having to do with being from Hibernia or the Roman Catholic religion, #37. You and your red herrings, #37. Abortion is of the left, #37; not the right. Should I start talking about your mother now?

Why do you hate Irish people so much, #37? Why are you such a filthy leftist on this issue?

Abortions is an (sic) important to Irish-Catholics atheists as whiskey

Corrected, #37. And your support for Sharia is noted once again.

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(1775834)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Oct 8 14:12:07 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by Catfish 44 on Thu Oct 8 09:31:58 2020.

He's trolling again.

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(1775857)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Oct 8 14:56:21 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Oct 8 14:11:36 2020.

Ireland became less religious and went from being the sick man of Western Europe to being the ďCeltic Tiger.Ē

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(1775862)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by pragmatist on Thu Oct 8 15:09:33 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Oct 8 14:11:36 2020.

Just because a majority believe something, does not make it right. We see that all the time.

Truth is not determined by a majority vote.

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(1775864)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Oct 8 15:12:00 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by pragmatist on Thu Oct 8 15:09:33 2020.

Excellent post, but the vote wasn't about the truth, it was about whether to legalize abortion.

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(1775872)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by pragmatist on Thu Oct 8 15:36:22 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Oct 8 15:12:00 2020.

It referenced a majority in Ireland voting in favor of abortion, but it applies to many issues near and dear to people on both ends of the political spectrums.

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(1775907)

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Re: If Trump loses

Posted by 3-9 on Thu Oct 8 17:01:04 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Sep 3 13:25:40 2020.

What did the neighborhood change into? :-)

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(1777934)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Oct 17 03:29:33 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by Joe V on Thu Oct 8 07:10:46 2020.

It won't happen.

There will be violence as bad as George Floyd protests.

Truth is abortion lowered crime a lot in the US. It would be lower if the GOP didn't fuck it up in the South by not letting welfare fund abortion.

Do you remember when the south was known for southern charm, hospitality and cleanliness? Now cities like Atlanta, Memphis, N'orleans, and Birmingham are the high crime cities.

Why? Didn't dent the birthrate in those cities like NYC did.

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(1777935)

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Re: If Trump loses

Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Oct 17 03:31:15 2020, in response to If Trump loses, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jun 29 03:41:54 2020.

AlM is petulant.



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(1777942)

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Re: If Trump loses

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 17 08:04:59 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Oct 17 03:31:15 2020.

Did you learn a new word?

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(1777956)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 17 11:45:12 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Oct 17 03:29:33 2020.

Truth is abortion lowered crime

That's still a filthy disgusting leftist lie, #37.

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(1777968)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by pragmatist on Sat Oct 17 13:02:48 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu Oct 8 13:56:56 2020.

Overturning Roe will not make abortion illegal. It will allow certain states to pass laws that do. Many states would not do that. It is likely that a majority of Americans are in favor of legalized abortion, it would likely be legally available in many places, although that would severely restrict access for a large number of women. Being legal or not is entirely separate from being right or wrong in the minds of many people. You see that clearly in the marijuana issue. Personally, I always thought showing people why something is bad or wrong may be more useful than making it illegal, it isn't going away because some states make it illegal. The chance of it being illegal nationally is pretty much zero.....

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(1777969)

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Re: If Trump loses

Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 17 13:36:39 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Oct 17 03:31:15 2020.

IOW, water's wet.

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(1777970)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 17 13:37:55 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by pragmatist on Sat Oct 17 13:02:48 2020.

It is likely that a majority of Americans are in favor of legalized abortion

If so, then why are abortion proponents so convinced that one SCOTUS decision would make it illegal?

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(1777974)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by mtk52983 on Sat Oct 17 13:51:49 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 17 13:37:55 2020.

Because in a number of states it is illegal, but the laws have not been enforced because of RvW. Also, it isnít so much that it would be illegal, but that ďsafeĒ (I use quotes since every abortion results in at least one death) procedures will be unavailable to those without means to go somewhere where there are no laws on the books. In addition, due to people traveling for abortions, that takes resources from those who actually live locally and require medical care.

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(1777976)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by pragmatist on Sat Oct 17 13:54:12 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 17 13:37:55 2020.

It won't make it illegal, that is up to the states. There are states where abortion might be made illegal, or severely restricted. Right now, SCOTUS has knocked down most attempts by states to put in place major restrictions. Abortion proponents generally want no restrictions anywhere. Overturning Roe would not stop states from having legal abortions, it is likely that many would. It is almost the same as gun advocates and the second amendment. The arguments are about sowing fear of the most unlikely scenarios. Besides, right or wrong is not determined by a majority vote. The fact that more Americans favor legalized abortion in some form is totally separate from whether it is truly right or wrong.

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(1777995)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 17 16:15:46 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by mtk52983 on Sat Oct 17 13:51:49 2020.

Very few abortions result in any deaths.

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(1777997)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by mtk52983 on Sat Oct 17 16:38:13 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 17 16:15:46 2020.

Life is destroyed with every abortion

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(1778001)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by AlM on Sat Oct 17 17:14:10 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by mtk52983 on Sat Oct 17 16:38:13 2020.

Of course.

Life is destroyed when you swat a mosquito. Life is destroyed when you mow the lawn.

So what is your point?



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(1778005)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Oct 17 17:21:00 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by AlM on Sat Oct 17 17:14:10 2020.

I don't know a human life was on par with a mosquito. Ridiculous comparison (and I am pro-choice).

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(1778006)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 17 17:27:38 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Oct 17 17:21:00 2020.

What human life? Very few human lives are ended by abortion (unfortunately sometimes things go wrong and sometimes abortions are done post-viability).

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(1778007)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by AlM on Sat Oct 17 17:27:53 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Oct 17 17:21:00 2020.

A human life is not on par with a mosquito. That's why I was asking him what his point was. He specifically avoided saying a human life.



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(1778015)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by pragmatist on Sat Oct 17 17:53:08 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 17 17:27:38 2020.

It also depends on one's faith tradition. There are major groups of people who have a core belief that life begins at conception, that makes any abortion inherently wrong regardless of developmental stage of the embryo/fetus. Many members of that group ignore the same belief when it comes to artificial conception, and the beliefs about any sex outside of marriage, but condemn same sex marriages, get divorced and remarry, or support the death penalty.

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(1778017)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 17 18:00:25 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by pragmatist on Sat Oct 17 17:53:08 2020.

Those are all independent beliefs and one doesnít have to hold them all simultaneously.

But regardless, individual religious belief canít be a source of public policy. I actually believe that bans on abortion donít violate the right to privacy, they violate the establishment clause.

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(1778022)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by mtk52983 on Sat Oct 17 18:15:48 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 17 18:00:25 2020.

I disagree with abortions, but I do believe they are legal under Fourteenth Amendment and also whether a fetus has rights under Johnson v. Eisentrager at least prior to the point where it is viable.

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(1778023)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by pragmatist on Sat Oct 17 18:29:19 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 17 18:00:25 2020.

If you say that you have a position because of your belief in the tenets of a religion, and the religion teaches them as core beliefs, than ala carte is hypocrisy. As an independent thinker, of, they are separate. Just because something is legal, if you think it is wrong, convince others, works way better than unenforceable laws...We've seen that in this country repeatedly. Zealots (and sometimes well meaning regular people as well) convince people to make something illegal, and it is a complete failure....

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(1778026)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sat Oct 17 19:31:57 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 17 16:15:46 2020.

Every single successful one results in a death.

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(1778027)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 17 19:33:40 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by pragmatist on Sat Oct 17 18:29:19 2020.

I donít agree that itís hypocritical to follow only some tenets of a religion. People can make their own decisions. Religion can be personal. If the mainstream of that religion disagrees, then they have that right also.

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(1778028)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 17 19:36:47 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by mtk52983 on Sat Oct 17 18:15:48 2020.

I donít agree that an embryo has rights (you incorrectly used fetus) and Iím not sure how Johnson v. Eisentrager is applicable.

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(1778031)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 17 19:37:53 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sat Oct 17 19:31:57 2020.

Nope.

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(1778032)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by mtk52983 on Sat Oct 17 19:59:17 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 17 19:36:47 2020.

The Constitution does not have extraterritorial reach and therefore does not cover those not presently on American soil. Ergo a fetus doesnít have any rights at least previability since it is not living on American soil.

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(1778034)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 17 20:01:08 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Oct 17 17:21:00 2020.

You ever second-guess yourself on why you are so-called "pro-choice"?

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(1778036)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by pragmatist on Sat Oct 17 20:21:36 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 17 19:33:40 2020.

They are free to worship as they please. But not to masquerade as one thing when it suits them, and hide behind a recognized religion when convenient. The mainstream of a religion can certainly disagree, but in many religions, they have a theological principle known as "the don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out" principle. Religions are based on faith and belief. If you believe something else, you free to leave.

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(1778038)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by AlM on Sat Oct 17 20:23:38 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by pragmatist on Sat Oct 17 20:21:36 2020.

Fine theory, but it doesn't actually work that way. Very few religions manage unity of beliefs among their adherents.



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(1778039)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 17 20:28:56 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by pragmatist on Sat Oct 17 20:21:36 2020.

So because I eat pork and drive on the Sabbath, I should leave the Jewish religion? 613 or zero is what youíre saying?

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(1778045)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Sat Oct 17 20:42:46 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 17 16:15:46 2020.

Actually, they ALL do, of ya wanna get to the nitty-gritty.

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(1778046)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Sat Oct 17 20:45:25 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 17 19:37:53 2020.

Yep

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(1778047)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 17 20:53:56 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by BILLBKLYN on Sat Oct 17 20:42:46 2020.

No, they donít.

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(1778048)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by pragmatist on Sat Oct 17 20:58:11 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 17 20:28:56 2020.

You (like many) would be of Jewish heritage, but do not follow the teachings of the religion. The heritage and upbringing certainly shape who we are, but it is hypocritical to cite Jewish law why something should or shouldn't be....You can be Christian, but if you don't accept the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist as opposed to it being symbolic, you aren't a real Catholic.... That's why so many denominations exit under each umbrella....

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(1778049)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 17 20:59:32 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by pragmatist on Sat Oct 17 20:58:11 2020.

That is a good explanation, thank you.

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(1778050)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by pragmatist on Sat Oct 17 21:00:43 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by AlM on Sat Oct 17 20:23:38 2020.

That is part of the huge challenge that organized religion faces in a modern world....

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(1778053)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Sat Oct 17 21:11:52 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 17 20:53:56 2020.

The baby.

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(1778054)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sat Oct 17 21:13:41 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 17 20:53:56 2020.

Definition of abortion according to merriam-webster: the termination of a pregnancy after, accompanied by, resulting in, or closely followed by the death of the embryo or fetus...

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(1778055)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Sat Oct 17 21:13:42 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by pragmatist on Sat Oct 17 20:58:11 2020.

That's why organized religion is full of shit

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(1778056)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by Train Dude on Sat Oct 17 21:22:01 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 17 16:15:46 2020.

Most abortions end in death

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(1778058)

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Re: If Trump loses?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 17 21:24:18 2020, in response to Re: If Trump loses?, posted by BILLBKLYN on Sat Oct 17 21:11:52 2020.

What baby?

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