|
|
| Re: Trump’s Restart Plan? (1710612) | |
 |
|
| Home > OTChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
|
Page 4 of 5 |
||
|
| (1711174) | |
Re: Trump’s Restart Plan? |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Mar 28 02:17:10 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Mar 27 22:26:02 2020. What, you want consistency out of him? |
|
|
| (1711179) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 28 06:56:24 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Mar 27 22:08:35 2020. Had there been NATIONAL policies, and you are fine with having none of them, there would have no Mardi Gras, or any otehr similar event.You are fine letting Trump off accepting zero responsibilities for anything. Trump is a WEAK, feeble leader with a Big Mouth and no grasp of reality. He is still 75% wrong of everything he says at his 5pm pressers. |
|
|
| (1711180) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Mar 28 06:58:25 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by Easy on Fri Mar 27 19:30:23 2020. The government has a compelling interest in keeping people safe from a known, highly contagious pathogen that is capable of killing them.Put another way, if a vicious mass killer was roaming the halls of a church full of parishioners, wouldn't the police be justified in clearing the building? |
|
|
| (1711181) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 28 06:59:05 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Mar 27 22:21:21 2020. That's right, but Train Dude thinks only "lawless Democrats" put up such travel restrictions, until other examples were pointed out in Republican areas. |
|
|
| (1711182) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 28 07:01:09 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by Train Dude on Sat Mar 28 00:43:51 2020. Actually, you are the bleeding heart liberal here. Some of your rights of assembly and travel go by the boards under emergencies, but you, like the ACLU types, can't accept that. They may win in court in a couple of years, beyond this crisis. |
|
|
| (1711183) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 28 07:02:22 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Mar 27 21:58:17 2020. REPEAT: ZERO national leadership. They took their lead from the REPUBLICAN leader. You should be thrilled. |
|
|
| (1711184) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 28 07:04:28 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Mar 27 21:56:58 2020. I am saying Louisiana pols followed the pattern of the clueless Republicans in Washington. |
|
|
| (1711185) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Mar 28 07:48:28 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by Easy on Fri Mar 27 19:37:29 2020. There's 1 confirmed case of Covid 19 in Campbell WY. That's 3 miles from the center of Gillette. It's also 2.4 miles from the Walmart Supercenter.Each confirmed case represents about 10 cases because of the lack of testing and the test delays. NYS had 1 confirmed case on March 2nd. |
|
|
| (1711191) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by Easy on Sat Mar 28 09:36:40 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Mar 28 06:58:25 2020. Why are you explaining this to me? You were the one questioning the government! |
|
|
| (1711193) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Mar 28 09:42:37 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by Easy on Sat Mar 28 09:36:40 2020. I was questioning whether an arbitrary stop of all cars with NY plates would pass constitutional muster. It's not the same as dispersing a known large gathering if people in a fixed location. |
|
|
| (1711194) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Mar 28 09:52:43 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by Easy on Sat Mar 28 09:36:40 2020. Sssh... be vewy, vewy qwiet...We're hunting New Yorkers...huhuhuhuhuh! |
|
|
| (1711195) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Sat Mar 28 10:02:35 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Mar 28 09:52:43 2020. Ridiculous. |
|
|
| (1711200) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by Easy on Sat Mar 28 10:25:06 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Mar 28 09:42:37 2020. I'm questioning your questioning of one government practice that may be unconstitutional versus government reactions that are clearly unconstitutional. Both of which are intended to fight the virus.To me all of these types of actions are questionable. Every 3rd world dictatorship starts with the suspension of constitutional rights to fight some perceived danger. Since I'm not a legal person and you feel comfortable enough in your knowledge to debate tax law with lawyers and CPA's, could you explain the constitutional problems with what Rhode Island is doing? I'm not saying that it is or isn't. I have no idea. |
|
|
| (1711201) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Sat Mar 28 10:30:21 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by Easy on Sat Mar 28 10:25:06 2020. could you explain the constitutional problems with what Rhode Island is doingIn support of RI: - It's an emergency - NY residents are really more likely to have covid-19 than residents of other states In opposition: - Arbitrary rules- residents of other states also might have covid-19: picking on NYers is arbitrary - Freedom of assembly - if I want to assemble in RI, you can't stop me - Unlawful restriction of interstate commerce - Unlawful/arbitrary search and seizure - Given all the clauses of the constitution that are probably violated, can you provide the slightest proof that this will actually keep people healthier? |
|
|
| (1711203) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Mar 28 10:34:30 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by Easy on Sat Mar 28 10:25:06 2020. SCOTUS ruled years ago that car stops can't be done in an arbitrary manner, as RI is doing in singling out only vehicles with New York plates. At DWI checkpoints, for example, the police can only stop every third car, or some other random method. They can't stop only Black motorists, or women.Oh, and you have a lot of gall, questioning my debating with anyone on this board, because you also debate the lawyers here on legal matters. Then again, you also question me on things I have professional knowledge of, so there's that, too.. |
|
|
| (1711205) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by Easy on Sat Mar 28 10:53:45 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by AlM on Sat Mar 28 10:30:21 2020. You have the right to assemble in Rhode Island, but you also have that right in NY. I'm questioning why you are only concerned with Rhode Island curtailing that right?And what about freedom of religion? Can you provide the slightest proof that stoping a wedding in a NJ backyard kept people healthier? |
|
|
| (1711206) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Mar 28 11:04:33 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by Easy on Sat Mar 28 10:53:45 2020. Given that the virus is highly contagious,band that people with no symptoms can transmit this virus to others, the benefits of breaking up large groups of people should be readily apparent. |
|
|
| (1711207) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by Easy on Sat Mar 28 11:06:06 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Mar 28 10:34:30 2020. I don't know what the legal definition of arbitrary is, but in common vernacular arbitrary implies random so stopping every car with NY plates is not arbitrary.But I think that I get your point despite you not bothering to answer my question. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you think that stopping NYers from entering RI is ineffective against stopping the spread of the virus, so it's not ok to suspend constitutional protection for that action. OTOH, you think that isolating people is effective so you are ok with suspending the constitution for that. IMO we shouldn't be doing anything constitutionally questionable to stop the spread of the virus. |
|
|
| (1711208) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by Easy on Sat Mar 28 11:12:27 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Mar 28 11:04:33 2020. Are any of the people that were at the wedding sick with covid? Did they practice social distancing while at the wedding?I think that there's a very reasonable argument that local and state governments overreached with their requirements. Again, I don't know law, but even Cuomo is questioning whether or not NY would do it the same way if given another chance. If there's an effectiveway to do it while respecting the constitution, then that's the way to do it. |
|
|
| (1711213) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by Train Dude on Sat Mar 28 11:23:58 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by Easy on Sat Mar 28 11:12:27 2020. I can see both sides BUTYou made the most persuasive argument. If we accept that it was necessary to suspend the constitution for this emergency what about the next time and the time after that? Pretty soon the constitutional rights become optional. |
|
|
| (1711218) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Mar 28 11:34:27 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by Easy on Sat Mar 28 11:06:06 2020. No, I'm saying that a car bearing NY plates is not evidence of its occupants being COVID-19 positive, or even carriers of the virus. Consider that a car registered in NY night have been in Rhode Island for an extended period of time, predating the pandemic, or that the car might be a rental, not even occupied by New Yorkers.On the other hand, preserving public safety does not necessarily mean the Constitution is "suspended". The government has a compelling interest in controlling the propagation of a known deadly pathogen, to which no one is immune. Preventing large gatherings of people is known to be effective in slowing the spread of this virus. Stopping every car with NY plates won't do that. |
|
|
| (1711219) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Sat Mar 28 11:34:53 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by Easy on Sat Mar 28 11:06:06 2020. IMO we shouldn't be doing anything constitutionally questionable to stop the spread of the virus.But there definitely are unresolved constitutional issues. What does "freedom of assembly" really mean? Does it just mean that there must be some way that people can assemble, so that they can plan political actions, for example? If so, the existence of Zoom would mean we have freedom of assembly. Or does it mean that any kind of assembly must be allowed? Probably not. The courts have allowed "maximum 500 persons in this theater" restrictions for safety reasons. So is "maximum zero persons may linger in this restaurant" allowed for safety reasons? Probably. Similarly, a political rally is probably prohibited unless people keep 6 feet from each other. There is a scientific basis for that rule, so it's probably OK, but who knows what the Supreme Court might eventually say. Having said all that, stopping cars with NY license plates but not CT license plates sounds dubious. Plenty of people with CT license plates are infected. So there is no reasoned justification behind only stopping the NY cars. |
|
|
| (1711222) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sat Mar 28 11:41:38 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by AlM on Sat Mar 28 11:34:53 2020. Are they going to check every tractor trailer to see if they came from NY? |
|
|
| (1711223) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Mar 28 11:41:52 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by Easy on Sat Mar 28 11:06:06 2020. I often listen to WLNG radio which has its studios in Sag Harbor LI.They just ran a public service announcement that said (paraphrasing) that they understood NYC residents wanting to come out to eastern LI to get away from and possibly reduce the chances of getting the virus. In the next sentence they vigorously discouraged this idea and were extremely adamant about discouraging traveling back and forth to NYC. While common sense may dictate these days that unnecessary (subjective) travel is a bad idea, I sense the next step out on Eastern LI is to ban outright anyone coming from the NYC area. Bottom line here, IMO we're getting dangerously close to serious challenges to our constitutional rights with all these assembly & travel restrictions without solid proof that all these restrictions are working. Restrictions are in place now & the numbers of infected folks are still rising. Suggest, recommend, discourage etc. all you want. But don't demand backed up with the threat of arrest. Don't take away our freedom of choice. BTW, If folks get arrested for violating social distancing rules, how do they maintain social distancing rules when appearing in court or worse yet, locked up? Just wonderin. |
|
|
| (1711225) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by Easy on Sat Mar 28 11:47:26 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by AlM on Sat Mar 28 11:34:53 2020. I don't know the answers, but I gave an example of a religious ceremony/wedding in a private backyard. That's not a movie theater, it's not something that can necessarily be resolved by Zoom. You're giving questionable hypothetical examples, when what's actually happening is more clear. It's almost as if you're intentionally inserting a strawman.Here's the thing. Any American can choose to hole up at home and rarely/never leave. They can choose to stay safe. Anyone that doesn't leave puts themselves and others at greater risk. But that would be their choice. Instead the government has chosen that for us. I'm playing devils advocate to some degree, but I do think that it's a slippery slope. The government could potentially accomplish the same thing by offering incentives to stay at home, rather than making it a requirement. Even in wartime, Democratic governments never enacted such restrictions. An older English politician made that same comment. He said that even during the blitz, they never had such restrictions of movement within england. He supported the restrictions, but it's still a staggering thought. |
|
|
| (1711227) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Sat Mar 28 11:52:49 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Mar 28 11:41:52 2020. I sense the next step out on Eastern LI is to ban outright anyone coming from the NYC area.I don't think Cuomo or the state legislature would look too kindly on that. Besides, how would they know? I think that Greene County has the best message for discouraging visitors. Hey folks, just so you know, we have NO hospitals in Greene County. |
|
|
| (1711228) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Mar 28 11:57:04 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 28 07:04:28 2020. No. They do not |
|
|
| (1711229) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Mar 28 11:57:49 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 28 07:02:22 2020. They are big boys and girls |
|
|
| (1711230) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Mar 28 11:58:06 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Mar 27 22:01:26 2020. Of course no answer |
|
|
| (1711231) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Mar 28 11:58:48 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 28 06:56:24 2020. Be that as it may, no one thought it was reasonable to cancel a major event like Mardi Gras back on 2/25. The first major events to be suspended were the NBA season, and that didn’t happen until March. |
|
|
| (1711234) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Mar 28 11:59:29 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by Train Dude on Sat Mar 28 00:41:40 2020. So sorry! That WAS meant for Joe V |
|
|
| (1711235) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Sat Mar 28 11:59:58 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Mar 28 11:58:06 2020. ???No coherent question. Who did what in NY? |
|
|
| (1711236) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Mar 28 12:00:34 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 28 06:56:24 2020. What do you not understand that NO ONE thought that was necessary in February |
|
|
| (1711239) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by Easy on Sat Mar 28 12:02:26 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Mar 28 11:58:48 2020. Yup. Disney parks were open until practically the last hour they were legally allowed. |
|
|
| (1711241) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Sat Mar 28 12:10:50 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Mar 28 11:59:29 2020. You were correct in the first place. TD was the first one to bring up the party affiliation of the politicians in LA, which is irrelevant to anything.Link. And in terms of blaming Trump, that was Stephen, two posts earlier. |
|
|
| (1711244) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Sat Mar 28 12:19:37 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Mar 28 11:58:48 2020. Amusingly (in a sad kind of way), the person here who posted most correctly about covid-19 in February was OBS. |
|
|
| (1711253) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Mar 28 12:34:30 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sat Mar 28 11:41:38 2020. No, only passengers cars and SUVs. |
|
|
| (1711273) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Mar 28 13:06:25 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by Train Dude on Sat Mar 28 00:43:14 2020. I never stayed at the hotel. Just been to that Harrah's many times |
|
|
| (1711274) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Mar 28 13:07:11 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 28 07:01:09 2020. ???????Who is talking about any of that? |
|
|
| (1711275) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Mar 28 13:08:05 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 28 06:59:05 2020. So how come the Democrats in the locations you mentioned didn't do such? |
|
|
| (1711291) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Mar 28 13:42:45 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by Easy on Sat Mar 28 10:53:45 2020. Here lies a question too. If you own a summer home in Rhode island but live in New York. Is it constitutional to stop you from using your property? Who are they to say you can not occupy your property, just because you are a New Yorker? (I'm really asking that, not trying to be snide).It's not like an emergency Evacuation such as in a hurricane for example when everyone has to leave |
|
|
| (1711292) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Mar 28 13:44:16 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by Train Dude on Sat Mar 28 11:23:58 2020. And worse, "become optional at the whim of politicians" |
|
|
| (1711299) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Mar 28 13:46:47 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by AlM on Sat Mar 28 11:52:49 2020. " Besides, how would they know?"Roadblocks & checkpoints. Like what they have to check for drunk drivers. |
|
|
| (1711306) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Mar 28 14:37:58 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by Easy on Fri Mar 27 19:37:29 2020. They also have coal mines. The energy production is mainly what makes that part of the country economically productive. Not the farms. Thanks to our rural political bias, people seem to place a much greater importance on food production than the reality justifies. |
|
|
| (1711307) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Mar 28 14:38:24 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Mar 27 22:30:45 2020. Except for the “cattle ranches and farms” part. |
|
|
| (1711309) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Mar 28 14:44:54 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Mar 28 14:37:58 2020. I take that back. It turns out that “utilities” and “mining” are each only 1.6% of the GDP. But I was right that they were higher than agriculture, which together with forestry, fishing, and hunting is only 0.8% of GDP.https://www.statista.com/statistics/248004/percentage-added-to-the-us-gdp-by-industry/ |
|
|
| (1711419) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Mar 28 16:10:34 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by AlM on Sat Mar 28 11:59:58 2020. Okay, I will answer you. The governor did |
|
|
| (1711421) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Mar 28 16:11:59 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by AlM on Sat Mar 28 12:10:50 2020. False. He was blaming Louisiana and New Orleans in conservatives.....red state. YD pointed out to Joe, after he brought it up, it has a Democratic mayor and governor |
|
|
| (1711425) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by ClearAspect on Sat Mar 28 16:23:58 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Mar 28 16:11:59 2020. does that absolve the president of the things he did and said and lied about prior to actually trying? |
|
|
| (1711426) | |
Re: Trump's Restart Plan |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Sat Mar 28 16:30:33 2020, in response to Re: Trump's Restart Plan, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Mar 28 16:10:34 2020. Did what? |
|
|
|
Page 4 of 5 |
||