Re: Sabbath observations

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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by SLRT* on Mon Aug 12 18:07:21 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by AlM on Mon Aug 12 15:51:03 2019.* Many hospitals in New York. My daughter her saw first Shabbos elevators in her hotel in Tel Aviv. She said it was kind of farshimmelt; it stopped at random floors rather than every floor.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by gp38/r42 chris* on Mon Aug 12 18:10:17 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Aug 12 17:21:21 2019.* It's easy to walk down. It's much harder, up. That said I don't understand the concept of it being less work to walk than ride. Although initiating the device seems to be the issue?
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by AlM* on Mon Aug 12 18:12:54 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Aug 12 17:21:21 2019.* Optimal might be every 5th floor on the way up and every floor on the way down.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by LuchAAA* on Mon Aug 12 18:22:35 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by SLRT on Mon Aug 12 18:07:21 2019.* Have you read my dietary advice to Jews?
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by LuchAAA* on Mon Aug 12 18:24:37 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Aug 12 17:21:21 2019.* If a building has Sabbath elevator I wonder if they keep stairs open too? Some buildings prohibit stairs unless emergency.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by SLRT* on Mon Aug 12 19:15:16 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Aug 12 18:22:35 2019.* No.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by LuchAAA* on Mon Aug 12 19:29:54 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by SLRT on Mon Aug 12 19:15:16 2019.* Increase saturated fat intake by any means.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by SLRT* on Mon Aug 12 19:33:59 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Aug 12 19:29:54 2019.* Why?
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by LuchAAA* on Mon Aug 12 19:40:23 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by SLRT on Mon Aug 12 19:33:59 2019.* Israeli Paradox. And personal observations. Eliminating pork has not helped, especially men.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Mon Aug 12 20:24:31 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Mon Aug 12 18:10:17 2019.* It’s not about work AT ALL. That is a poor translation. What is prohibited is “melacha.” The Hebrew word for work is “Avodah.” Melacha refers to 39 specific activities which are prohibited on the Sabbath. There is obviously no English word for this.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by TerrApin Station* on Mon Aug 12 23:00:25 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by cortelyounext on Mon Aug 12 13:04:37 2019.* Maybe it shouldn't, but it amazes me that in 2019, people like you are still here making these kinds of posts and people like Luch are still here making these kinds of threads. G-d works in mysterious ways.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by LuchAAA* on Mon Aug 12 23:04:18 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by TerrApin Station on Mon Aug 12 23:00:25 2019.* @terrapin station How is your post any different in 2019 vs 2009 or any year?
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by AlM* on Tue Aug 13 03:48:02 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Mon Aug 12 18:10:17 2019.* Initiating the device is the issue.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by AlM* on Tue Aug 13 03:49:54 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by TerrApin Station on Mon Aug 12 23:00:25 2019.* Courtelyounext is engaging in a form of satire.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Tue Aug 13 08:06:33 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by AlM on Tue Aug 13 03:48:02 2019.* Operating a switch is the issue.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by orange blossom special* on Tue Aug 13 08:27:06 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Mon Aug 12 18:10:17 2019.* "It's easy to walk down. It's much harder, up." I used to think this. Then a runner from Jamaica told me that isn't true. I walked down a skyscraper. Legs still hurt, but I guess it was "easier" as I still made it easier than going up it. Lesson. I'm still the most diverse person here.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by orange blossom special* on Tue Aug 13 08:27:47 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Aug 12 18:24:37 2019.* No. They turn the turns into spider-pigs infinite escalator mode.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by orange blossom special* on Tue Aug 13 08:28:57 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Aug 12 13:59:36 2019.* You're spouting off so much knowledge on here that most people don't even know, that I'm thinking you're going to be an ultra-orthodox poster here very soon.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by orange blossom special* on Tue Aug 13 08:32:37 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by Dave on Mon Aug 12 14:16:01 2019.* Needing to approve an elevator function that makes it stop on all the floors one day a week for an extra mode by the "municpal authority" is exactly the type of government overreach that is wrong with this country.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by Dave* on Tue Aug 13 10:31:45 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by orange blossom special on Tue Aug 13 08:32:37 2019.* No, Fool. I'm talking about an initial installation of a new elevator requiring a municipal authority to review and grant an operating certificate. All public elevators also require an annual inspection. Next time you're in an elevator look for the certificate, usually near the buttons or emergency phone.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by orange blossom special* on Tue Aug 13 10:35:58 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by Dave on Tue Aug 13 10:31:45 2019.* "Next time you're in an elevator look for the certificate, usually near the buttons or emergency phone. " Yeah, and when I'm in a publically run elevator, the certificate is always predictably expired. Let's go read what you wrote again and how you changed it: "Not correct. But they do need to be signed off by the elevator inspector or the relevant municipal authority before being put into use." "No, Fool. I'm talking about an initial installation of a new elevator requiring a municipal authority to review and grant an operating certificate." Looks different, and irrelevant. "All public elevators also require an annual inspection." Shabbos elevators aren't public?
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by gp38/r42 chris* on Tue Aug 13 10:36:11 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 13 08:06:33 2019.* But then why would walking into a room with a motion sensor not comply, unlike just leaving the light burn
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by orange blossom special* on Tue Aug 13 10:37:17 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by Dave on Mon Aug 12 17:11:38 2019.* Not entirely true. But as long as the government inspects it. Like if you're in Jersey where there's no such thing as a home.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by orange blossom special* on Tue Aug 13 10:53:47 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Aug 12 16:13:27 2019.* https://www.gocomics.com/arloandjanis/2019/06/01
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Tue Aug 13 10:55:53 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Tue Aug 13 10:36:11 2019.* Your entering the room flips the switch. God can flip a switch just by thinking it, so if you can do the same thing, that violates the Sabbath.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by Dave* on Tue Aug 13 11:17:21 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by orange blossom special on Tue Aug 13 10:37:17 2019.* Your conflating inspection re: mechanicals and conformity with building regulations versus the halachic stringencies of a Sabbath elevator. The Rabbi is qualified to rule on the latter but not the former.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by Dave* on Tue Aug 13 11:20:16 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by orange blossom special on Tue Aug 13 10:35:58 2019.* Yeah, and when I'm in a publically run elevator, the certificate is always predictably expired. Try looking in an office building as opposed to a tenement slum building. Shabbos elevators aren't public? Not if they're in someone's single family home or brownstone.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by orange blossom special* on Tue Aug 13 12:04:31 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by Dave on Tue Aug 13 11:17:21 2019.* Qualified is not the final arbiter. Unless he is a Rebbe (where then he still has books), there is always someone smarter than you. A Rabbi should always consult another. Some professionals would be wise to follow this advice.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by Dave* on Tue Aug 13 12:18:57 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by orange blossom special on Tue Aug 13 12:04:31 2019.* A Rabbi should always consult another. Not necessarily. If someone is acknowledged as a halachic expert in a field, he doesn't need "checking" by another rabbi. For example, Rabbi Fuerst in Chicago is an acknowledged expert in the field of kashrus. He doesn't need to consult with others on questions involving commercial food preparations.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Tue Aug 13 12:39:13 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by orange blossom special on Tue Aug 13 12:04:31 2019.* Rebbes are only a Hasidic thing.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by LuchAAA* on Tue Aug 13 12:52:19 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by AlM on Tue Aug 13 03:49:54 2019.* Faking being a pilot is satire?
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by cortelyounext* on Tue Aug 13 13:22:05 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by TerrApin Station on Mon Aug 12 23:00:25 2019.* Maybe it shouldn't... Yeah, it probably shouldn't. You have been here long enough, Terrapin Station, that I find it altogether sad that I need to explain it to you so I'll keep it short. It is a release from the stress and tension of everyday life... everyday life. Not everyone here appreciates my often failed attempts at lightheartedness and humor - I get that. I rarely engage in the nasty back and forth, I try to keep the language and imagery within bounds so as not to insult the sensibilities of those who take umbrage. I do understand how my satire can create a problem in terms of individuals accessing one of those posts hoping to find opinion and substantive information related to the thread topic only to find a satirical post. That I am guilty of at times. I do request and, to a lesser extent, provide useful information on these boards every now and again. Please feel free to avoid reading my posts, Terrapin Station, and unless one writes something threatening or hateful (i.e., anti-semitic, racially intolerant), perhaps it might be a better use of your time to adhere to the principle that if you have nothing useful or constructive to write then write nothing at all. Yeah, you have been here long enough. I suggest you reflect on your body of work over the years.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by LuchAAA* on Tue Aug 13 13:26:50 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by cortelyounext on Tue Aug 13 13:22:05 2019.* Oh man.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by Mitch45* on Tue Aug 13 15:18:08 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by AlM on Tue Aug 13 03:48:02 2019.* The Shabbos elevators I have seen are on timers - they stop on every floor, the doors open and stay open for a set period of time, they close and the elevator proceeds to the next floor, either up or down. To me, initiation of the device is not the issue. The issue is weight and increasing the elevator's work load - i.e., your weight inside the elevator causes it to draw more power to lift you to the next floor than it would if it had been empty. The issur lies in making the elevator draw more power - its akin to adding fuel to a fire to make it burn hotter, which is assur. This is what I was told back in my yeshiva days back in Brooklyn. Stuck with me ever since.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Tue Aug 13 15:21:35 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Aug 13 15:18:08 2019.* Given the weight of the elevator and its counterweight, your weight is negligible and has no effect on the elevator's power draw. If anything, it will just slow down the elevator.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by LuchAAA* on Tue Aug 13 15:22:38 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Aug 13 15:18:08 2019.* Do you keep bathroom light on Friday night? Have you considered lifting weights? I know a lot of Jewish people getting in to it.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by Mitch45* on Tue Aug 13 15:25:30 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Aug 13 15:22:38 2019.* I used to lift all the time. That was before I hurt my back. Not since.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by Mitch45* on Tue Aug 13 15:26:11 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 13 15:21:35 2019.* Hey, this is what I was told by my rebbes who all had impressive beards.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by AlM* on Tue Aug 13 15:38:43 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Aug 13 15:18:08 2019.* So you are saying that not all people are comfortable with the idea of using a Shabbos elevator, because it might cause a slightly greater use of electricity?
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by AlM* on Tue Aug 13 15:41:00 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 13 15:21:35 2019.* There is work (under the physics definition thereof) involved in lifting Mitch up to a high floor. It may not be much, but it is greater than zero. It might not matter to some authorities that it is negligible, given that it is greater than zero.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Tue Aug 13 15:45:44 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by AlM on Tue Aug 13 15:41:00 2019.* I just assumed that most elevator motors would draw the same amount of current regardless of the load. Therefore a heavier elevator would simply decrease the velocity thereof.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by AlM* on Tue Aug 13 16:02:55 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 13 15:45:44 2019.* That's quite possible. But if so, Mitch's presence on the elevator would cause the elevator to draw the same amount of power as before, but for a longer period of time, causing the expenditure of a greater amount of work.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Tue Aug 13 16:24:26 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by AlM on Tue Aug 13 16:02:55 2019.* So? Didn't I mention how "work" is irrelevant?
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by AlM* on Tue Aug 13 16:27:08 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 13 16:24:26 2019.* Oh never mind, Mitch used "work load" as a term for power, not work.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by Dave* on Tue Aug 13 17:20:34 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Aug 13 15:18:08 2019.* Back in 2009, some Haredi rabbis published a religious injunction forbidding the use of Sabbath elevators.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by TransitChuckG* on Tue Aug 13 17:27:53 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by Dave on Tue Aug 13 17:20:34 2019.* Oy!!!
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by orange blossom special* on Wed Aug 14 15:18:34 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by Dave on Tue Aug 13 12:18:57 2019.* I like that you keep morphing and whittling your point down to only one person when you started with probably millions.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by orange blossom special* on Wed Aug 14 15:21:04 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 13 12:39:13 2019.* Probably. It feels like the language changes through time. Just like with the so called "Rav" as well. I saw an book snippet a few months ago that was talking about how many Rebbe's each American city had at the turn of the century (Philadelphia-5). It mentioned how some people were fake. I was wondering and am not clear if these were all Chasidic.
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by orange blossom special* on Wed Aug 14 15:23:18 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Aug 13 15:22:38 2019.* From all of the Black Supremacists articles I've seen just this week in NYC (and it's only Wednesday), the government should hand out free mace and brass knuckles to them too!
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Re: Sabbath observations
Posted by orange blossom special* on Wed Aug 14 15:25:49 2019, in response to Re: Sabbath observations, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Aug 13 15:18:08 2019.* I didn't even think about that door sensor! I guess it would be turned off too. The place where it was at confused me, and that I didn't see anyone using it either. The problem with this discussion that follows your post is that there are many types of elevators and motors. With a whole foaming community therein as well.
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