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| Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill (1625630) | |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 22 04:29:34 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 22 04:03:57 2019. Your comparison is wrong. You should be saying is a sperm cell a baby, or is an egg a baby? |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 22 04:32:25 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 22 04:29:34 2019. Can a fertilized egg survive as a baby outside a woman's body? |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 22 04:49:54 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill, posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed May 22 03:53:35 2019. It is synonymous with "infant." |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 22 04:52:03 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 22 04:28:10 2019. She does, because she decides whether to have an abortion or not. |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Wed May 22 05:13:38 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 22 04:52:03 2019. Not exactly under the plain meaning of Roe v. WadeAccording to the majority opinion, "With respect to the State's important and legitimate interest in potential life, the "compelling" point is at viability. This is so because the fetus then presumably has the capability of meaningful life outside the mother's womb. State regulation protective of fetal life after viability thus has both logical and biological justifications. If the State is interested in protecting fetal life after viability, it may go so far as to proscribe abortion during that period, except when it is necessary to preserve the life or health of the mother." Roe, 410 U.S. 113, 163-4 (1973). Once the fetus is past the point of viability the state may legally prohibit abortions provided that life/health of the mother is excepted. Now there is legitimate debate about whether "health" just means physical health or can include mental health. Under bingbong's definition which you are supporting, at any point until the baby is actaully "born" an abortion can take place for any reason or no reason. |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill |
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Posted by AlM on Wed May 22 05:21:03 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill, posted by mtk52983 on Wed May 22 05:13:38 2019. Under bingbong's definition which you are supporting, at any point until the baby is actaully "born" an abortion can take place for any reason or no reason.Huh? Where did either of them say that? Yes, I understand S-P's position to be that it's not a baby until it's born. But he never says that it's OK to abort a viable fetus in a healthy mother. He just doesn't call it a "baby." |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Wed May 22 05:34:16 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill, posted by AlM on Wed May 22 05:21:03 2019. LINKHere is bingbong saying that an abortion must be legal for any reason or no reason at any time. Bingbong has also said in this thread that any law prohibiting an abortion is unconstitutional as a violation of the Thirteenth Amendment even though Roe v. Wade clearly lists certain situations in which the state has an interest in choosing to prohibit abortions. |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Wed May 22 05:34:16 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill, posted by AlM on Wed May 22 05:21:03 2019. LINKHere is bingbong saying that an abortion must be legal for any reason or no reason at any time. Bingbong has also said in this thread that any law prohibiting an abortion is unconstitutional as a violation of the Thirteenth Amendment even though Roe v. Wade clearly lists certain situations in which the state has an interest in choosing to prohibit abortions. |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 22 05:41:45 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 22 04:52:03 2019. She is asserting that a woman gets to decide if it's a baby, not a man. |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Murder Bill |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Wed May 22 05:54:57 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill, posted by TRAIN DUDE on Wed May 22 02:12:06 2019. iawtlp |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 22 05:55:10 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill, posted by mtk52983 on Wed May 22 05:13:38 2019. The implication of her post is that if the woman decides not to go through with the pregnancy, she gets an abortion, otherwise she goes through with it and eventually, a baby is born. She did not claim in the referenced post that the woman could decide not to go through with it at any time during the pregnancy. |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill |
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Posted by AlM on Wed May 22 05:57:21 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill, posted by mtk52983 on Wed May 22 05:34:16 2019. You are reading too much into her post. She could very well be referring only to women in the earlier stages of pregnancy. There is nothing in her post that suggests she supports the right to an abortion at 8-1/2 months. |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 22 05:59:09 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 22 04:29:34 2019. An acorn is a fully-fertilized seed and is thus analogous to a post-"conception" zygote, not a sperm or egg. |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 22 06:00:37 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 22 04:32:25 2019. Not relevant. A premature infant is often unable to survive outside the womb without artificial assistance. It's still a human being and letting it die is still homicide. |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 22 06:01:27 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 22 05:41:45 2019. Huh? A man never gets to decide. |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Wed May 22 06:08:01 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill, posted by AlM on Wed May 22 05:57:21 2019. Then bingbong can correct me if I have misinterpreted her position. Based on her prior posts she says that a ban on abortion (which he she has not limited to pre-viability) violates the Thirteenth Amendment. In addition, bingbong has repeatedly posted on here that there are risks of complications of childbirth process therefore the mother's life is always in danger no matter the stage of the pregnancy thereofore abortion should be legal for any reason or no reason at any point of the pregnancy. As I said, if I have misinterpreted bingbong's position and bingbong believes there are certain times prior to birth that an abortion is illegal bingbong can feel free to correct me. |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 22 06:14:10 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 22 06:01:27 2019. Tell that to the courts! LOL |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill |
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Posted by AlM on Wed May 22 06:16:31 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill, posted by mtk52983 on Wed May 22 06:08:01 2019. I only went by the post you linked to. Your statement did not follow from your link. I have no idea what she really thinks. |
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Re: Alabama Passes Sharia Law Bill |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed May 22 06:32:18 2019, in response to Alabama Passes Sharia Law Bill, posted by ClearAspect on Wed May 15 16:16:22 2019. article containing facts and truth about this issue. Pregnancy is a life-threatening condition for a pregnant woman. |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 22 06:35:54 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 22 06:00:37 2019. I didn't say "premature infant", I said "fertilized egg", which by definition is not an organism meant to survive outside a living host. |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed May 22 06:43:00 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill, posted by mtk52983 on Wed May 22 05:13:38 2019. WRT your conclusion about what I said, you are completely wrong.Pre-viability, elective termination should be readily available to all women in this nation. Upon viability, ONLY for compelling medical reason. I have never said otherwise. |
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Re: Alabama Passes Sharia Law Bill |
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Posted by TRAIN DUDE on Wed May 22 06:46:30 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Sharia Law Bill, posted by bingbong on Wed May 22 06:32:18 2019. In this case you are correct. According to one study, carrying a child to term is 14 times more likely to result in the death of the woman than having a legal, properly performed abortion (8.8 v 0.6 per 100,000)That said, had you been able to procreate, would you have accepted that risk? |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill |
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Posted by TRAIN DUDE on Wed May 22 06:48:40 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill, posted by bingbong on Wed May 22 06:43:00 2019. What is compelling? To some women, loss of part-time leading to depression, might be compelling |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Wed May 22 07:15:59 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill, posted by bingbong on Wed May 22 06:43:00 2019. Thank you for the clarification. Is it possible to define compelling medical reason? If a woman says I don't want to risk the complications of childbirth even if she has no warning signs of potential complications is that compelling to get an abortion after viability? Is it limited to a diagnosed impact to the physical and/or mental health to the mother? I apologize for all of the questions, but I just want to make sure I accurately represent your position on this matter. |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill |
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Posted by TRAIN DUDE on Wed May 22 07:42:00 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill, posted by AlM on Wed May 22 05:57:21 2019. LOL, still speaking for others |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Murder Bill |
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Posted by Edwards! on Wed May 22 07:56:45 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Murder Bill, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 21 11:23:56 2019. Why?Because some assholes decided it was OKAY to surgically remove a Human being from Inside the womb Before it's born,ending any potentially greatness,or even the POSSIBLE? I say,if it's OKAY WITH YOU MUTHA FUCKAS,that if you REALLY need to practice barbaric and murderous tendencies...please do so on your OWN PEOPLE. YOU KILLED ENOUGH of mine. |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Murder Bill |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 22 08:03:51 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Murder Bill, posted by Edwards! on Wed May 22 07:56:45 2019. No one decided it was ok to surgically remove a human being from inside the womb. You consider it an embryo to be a human being despite all objective fact. |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Murder Bill |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Wed May 22 08:04:41 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Murder Bill, posted by Edwards! on Wed May 22 07:56:45 2019. WOW! HOLY COW! I actually agree with you. |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed May 22 08:22:05 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill, posted by mtk52983 on Wed May 22 07:15:59 2019. That would have to be defined by the attending medical personnel. I'm not qualified to quantify any individual case. There are accommodations that can be made WRT delivery in a case such as you describe as well. I would expect indications to involve medical complications, as there are means to accommodate psychological disorders such as anxiety as you described. Which, BTW, sounds like a condescending, callous fictional delusion about women than any variety of reality I’ve ever seen. Just wanted to ensure you understand that fallacies in your scenario as described. |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Murder Bill |
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Posted by Edwards! on Wed May 22 08:25:20 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Murder Bill, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 22 08:03:51 2019. L😆L...Ok..now tell me WHO exactly came up with that conclusion? What 'scientific evidence'of acceptance was drawn to consider WHEN LIFE BEGINS? |
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Re: Alabama Passes Sharia Law Bill |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed May 22 08:26:09 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Sharia Law Bill, posted by TRAIN DUDE on Wed May 22 06:46:30 2019. Considering my late husband and I tried to three times (all miscarriages) yes. So you can go fuck yourself on that point. |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill |
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Posted by AlM on Wed May 22 08:27:03 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill, posted by mtk52983 on Wed May 22 07:15:59 2019. You do realize, don't you, that post-viability abortions are incredibly rare and almost all involve some kind of major tragedy for which there is no easy answer?For every post-viability abortion there are probably hundreds of cases of conditions like pre-eclampsia where the medical personnel are striving like crazy to save both mother and baby. |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill |
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Posted by Edwards! on Wed May 22 08:31:19 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 22 06:35:54 2019. Isn't science a amazing thing. |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Murder Bill |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 22 08:32:49 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Murder Bill, posted by Edwards! on Wed May 22 08:25:20 2019. I don't care when life begins. Life began on or about the Eoarchean Era. Clearly "life" is unimportant, it's humanity that we're concerned with.That having been said, how is a single cell a human being in any way, shape or form? |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 22 08:37:39 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 22 06:35:54 2019. And I said your comparison is not relevant. |
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Re: Alabama Passes Sharia Law Bill |
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Posted by TRAIN DUDE on Wed May 22 09:10:42 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Sharia Law Bill, posted by bingbong on Wed May 22 08:26:09 2019. There was no call for you to resort to your gutter tactics. I started by validating your point that pregnancy was more dangerous than abortion. I asked a perfectly proper question that given those acknowledged risks, would you still opt to have children. It was a simple yes or no question so why did you feel the need to resort to your gutterish tactics? |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill |
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Posted by TRAIN DUDE on Wed May 22 09:13:03 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill, posted by AlM on Wed May 22 08:27:03 2019. WAALM. |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Murder Bill |
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Posted by TRAIN DUDE on Wed May 22 09:16:40 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Murder Bill, posted by Edwards! on Wed May 22 07:56:45 2019. Bravo. Maybe not so eloquent but appropriate. We finally agree on something though I discount the implied racist motives. |
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Re: Alabama Passes Sharia Law Bill |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed May 22 09:19:28 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Sharia Law Bill, posted by TRAIN DUDE on Wed May 22 09:10:42 2019. Because I saw it as baiting. Your misogyny is well documented. |
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Re: Alabama Passes Sharia Law Bill |
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Posted by TRAIN DUDE on Wed May 22 09:29:37 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Sharia Law Bill, posted by bingbong on Wed May 22 09:19:28 2019. It was not baiting. It was a legitimate question based on your contention that women opt for abortion partly because of the dangers of pregnancy.Of course now I will contend that your advocacy of abortion is fueled largely based on your jealousy of women who are fully functional and are able to procreate. You are a hateful, spiteful old crone. |
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Re: Alabama Passes Sharia Law Bill |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed May 22 10:38:38 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Sharia Law Bill, posted by TRAIN DUDE on Wed May 22 09:29:37 2019. I never said women opt for abortion because of health concerns. They typically come later, which is the primary reason the procedure should be available throughout to save lives as necessary. Fact is, the primary reason for the far majority of first trimester termination is actually economic. Especially for single women, the time off the job, the long term economic punishment, possible incomplete education further complicating same along with limited resources for existing children (more than typically there are) figure heavily into a choice to terminate an unplanned unwanted tragic pregnancy. |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 22 10:43:53 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill, posted by AlM on Wed May 22 08:27:03 2019. Where are the stats on that, though? |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 22 10:44:09 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill, posted by TRAIN DUDE on Wed May 22 09:13:03 2019. Source? |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill |
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Posted by AlM on Wed May 22 10:55:28 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 22 10:43:53 2019. Pre-eclampsia affects 2–8% of pregnancies worldwide.Late-term abortions are rare with about 1.3% of abortions taking place after the 21st week of pregnancy, and less than 1% occuring after 24 weeks. I'm actually surprised at the second statistic being that high. |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed May 22 10:57:55 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill, posted by AlM on Wed May 22 10:55:28 2019. There are some birth defects that are only apparent third trimester. Also, IIRC, that number includes induction WRT stillbirth. |
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Re: Alabama Passes Sharia Law Bill |
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Posted by TRAIN DUDE on Wed May 22 11:00:15 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Sharia Law Bill, posted by bingbong on Wed May 22 10:38:38 2019. Hence, women use abortion as birth control. |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill |
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Posted by TRAIN DUDE on Wed May 22 11:02:58 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 22 10:44:09 2019. 🍅 |
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Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 22 11:03:20 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Anti Muder Bill, posted by AlM on Wed May 22 10:55:28 2019. The stat I’m looking for is reasons for those abortions. |
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Re: Alabama Passes Sharia Law Bill |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 22 11:03:41 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Sharia Law Bill, posted by TRAIN DUDE on Wed May 22 11:00:15 2019. So what? |
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Re: Alabama Passes Sharia Law Bill |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed May 22 11:04:56 2019, in response to Re: Alabama Passes Sharia Law Bill, posted by TRAIN DUDE on Wed May 22 11:00:15 2019. No they don,t. They use abortion as a backup. Pills fail, more effective methods are out of reach for many women, now that many employers either do not provide coverage for contraceptives or severely limit options. |
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