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French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Nov 13 10:17:13 2018

There really is absolutely no reason for doing that. But does the notion make Macron “far-right” now?

Haaretz

Why Did Macron Say France Should “Offer Homage” to Nazi Collaborator Pétain?

The French president himself has advanced the recognition of France’s complicity in the Holocaust — but his desire to honor Pétain demonstrates the fragility of that process. France’s WWII and colonial era crimes remain a taboo and a threat to a still infantile national identity.

Tal Harris
Nov 11, 2018 1:50 PM | Updated: 11:52 AM
There is an sickness spreading across France. It isn’t due to the wonderfully rich French cuisine — but rather to its leaders’ unsavory relationship to history.

On Wednesday (November 7) President Emmanuel Macron announced that it would be “legitimate” to honor Philippe Pétain — along with seven other marshals — for his service on the centennial commemoration of the armistice that ended World War I. Not wanting to respond to a “bad polemic” — i.e. the response to Macron’s comments — the French government spokesperson excused the decision by quoting Charles de Gaulle: “Pétain served the nation in 1914 and betrayed it in 1940.” Nevertheless, controversy unfolded.

France’s leading Jewish representative organization, CRIF, expressed its “shock” that we can honor a man who...was himself responsible for the deportation of Jews from France,” and Israel’s Diaspora Affairs Minister Naftali Bennett urged Macron “not to offer excuse or defense for the Nazis and their supporters — in the past, present, or future.”

Right-wing Republican Senator Alain Houpert wrote on Twitter, that “There is nothing worse in history than a failure of memory,” and far-left leader and former presidential candidate Jean-Luc Mélenchon wrote on Twitter that “Pétain was a traitor and an anti-Semite” and directly to Macron that “France’s history is not your toy!” Finally, the Elysée retracted and announced that Pétain would not be honored.

Yet toying around with historical memory isn’t new to France.

There are no museums in Paris to explore the crimes of colonialism, as one finds in Washington D.C. to delve into the cruelties of the era of slavery and the confederacy. France was in Vietnam before the Americans were, and their loss of 55,000 soldiers was almost as bad (though France’s population was just a quarter of that of the U.S.) until it left after the miserable siege of Dien Bien Phu.

It is no coincidence that even educated French citizens are hardly aware of their country’s role in the Indochina war. Compare the massive black marble wall in the heart of Washington D.C. that commemorates the fallen soldiers in Vietnam, with the pale wall in the remote town of Frejus, that is seldom visited.

Compare the fierce public debate in the U.S., which peaked in 1968 and remains strong in contemporary discourse, with the frail opposition in France to the “dirty war,” sealed off by a refusal of President Mitterrand to acknowledge it had been a mistake. Neither the Indochina wars nor the invasions and exploitations in West and North Africa (not to speak of atrocities such as the 1944 Thiaroye massacre in Senegal) are taught in French schools.

Even the killing of 1.5 million Algerians during the aerial bombings and ratissages (army units “combing through” towns and slaughtering whoever was in their way) and the torture of hundreds of thousands remain a sensitive matter. In the last presidential elections, both Macron and far right leader Marine Le Pen tried to approach it from opposite directions, but were equally burned by the public backlash.

Unlike many countries that have acknowledged their guilt and paid reparations to their victims, there is precious little soul-searching among the French about their past; it remains a taboo and a threat to a still infantile national identity.

“Marshal Pétain was a great soldier of the Great War; that is a reality…it is legitimate that we render homage to the Marshals that led the army to victory,” said Emmanuel Macron. Yet Pétain was also an enthusiastic collaborator with the Nazis. Just as nobody would consider honoring a pedophile for having previously been a devoted father, nobody should honor the leader of the Vichy government just for having previously defended the border in Verdun.

Under his rule, anti-Semitic decrees were established and 75,000 Jews rounded up — with the help of the Vichy regime’s police and facing no protest from the French public — and sent to extermination camps.

Macron has, ironically, begun an important process of recognizing France’s complicity in the Holocaust. This comes after decades of its leaders punishing only individual war criminals, but absolving the French nation of blame, of characterizing France solely as a victim of Nazi Germany and reframing the Vichy government as an externally imposed evil. Macron’s recent attempt to honor Pétain, however, demonstrates the fragility of the recognition process he himself initiated.

While historians must be meticulous in recognizing all the facts of a historical period, national memory is constituted by those in power, by political decisions — of inclusion and exclusion, as the Haitian anthropologist Michel-Rolph Trouillot pointed out.

Taking national responsibility for past crimes may evoke a feeling of malaise, but it is essential for a healthy transition to adulthood. Macron’s wish to honor Pétain is symptomatic of a nation that still refuses to grow up.

Tal Harris is a PhD candidate in the field of migration at the Frankfurt Goethe University and a human rights activist, and a grandson of Holocaust survivors.

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Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain

Posted by AlM on Tue Nov 13 10:20:33 2018, in response to French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Nov 13 10:17:13 2018.

Yeah, it's sort of like honoring Benedict Arnold or Robert E. Lee for his services to the United States, which in each case were considerable.

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Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Nov 13 10:24:29 2018, in response to French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Nov 13 10:17:13 2018.

Far-right individuals and groups take great pleasure in honoring Robert E. Lee and other Confederate leaders, all of whom committed high treason against the United States, by levying war against us.

Petain, in collaborating with the Nazis, showed himself to be extremely right-wing, just like Lee the other Confederates.

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French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire revives call for European Empire; says it’s “all about power”

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Nov 13 10:26:24 2018, in response to French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Nov 13 10:17:13 2018.

EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU and all that. And this is after Macron calling for a European military to defend them from . . . the US, who has no plans to attack them nor ever would. (Why would a “peaceful empire” need a military, eh?)

Handelsblatt Global Edition

French finance minister: We need a European empire

European unity should be more than just a photo opportunity, France’s Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire said in an exclusive interview. But while France is more than willing, Germany remains reluctant.

By Handelsblatt Staff
Published on November 12, 2018 2:25
It is all very well to express European unity during memorials for the fallen in past world wars. But genuine unity — political, financial and military — is still lacking inside the European Union, according to France’s Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire. In an exclusive interview with Handelsblatt, he indicates that Paris is more than willing for more Europe and the ball is now in Berlin’s court.

The European Union should become “a peaceful empire” in order to stand up to China and the US, Le Maire argued. And although thanks to their wartime history, some Germans may find his talk of empire unattractive, Le Maire explains that, “I am using this phrase because, in tomorrow’s world, it’s going to be all about power … technological power, economic, financial, monetary, cultural power — all will be decisive. Europe cannot be shy any longer about using its power.”

Le Maire won’t go as far as to say that German politicians have been two-faced about European unity. But he did set a small deadline: “We have talked about it for a long time. Now it’s time for decisions. And there will be decisions made on December 4, at the next meeting of the economy and finance ministers. I cannot imagine anything else.”

“Everybody knows it takes guts to stand in the way of Donald Trump’s administration,” Le Maire said. “The people of Europe have had enough of the babble from Brussels. They want to see action.”

America first, China second

One of the most striking recent examples where European power proved lacking was with the latest US sanctions on Iran. Despite promises to shield German and other European companies doing business in Iran and keep the so-called Iran deal from completely disintegrating, the EU has been unable to do much.

“We are withdrawing the Iranian banks from our network,” confirmed Gottfried Leibbrandt, CEO of Swift, the international payment network based in Belgium; he was speaking at the French-German Business Forum in Paris over the weekend. “Not all of them, but nearly all.”

This makes it very difficult for European companies to trade with Iranian counterparts. To resolve this Le Maire said Europe would push ahead with a Special Purpose Vehicle, a financial institution that allows European companies to trade with Iran, while protecting them from US sanctions. But this was about much more than Iran, he insisted: Europe could not have the US deciding where European companies could do business.

Geoffrey Roux de Bezieux, the chairman of MEDEF, a major French network of entrepreneurs in France, bemoaned the fact that the German government was not providing any solid answers to pro-European suggestions such as those advocated by Le Maire. China wanted to enter the EU market but made sure to protect itself and the US was also becoming more protectionist, he said. The EU needed to be stronger too.

Le Maire also agreed with American criticisms that Europe was “too timid” in defending itself against Chinese acquisition of its technology. Europe must cooperate with the United States to rein in Beijing’s trade policies, the minister said. Asymmetric market access, intellectual property abuses and state subsidies were particularly worrying, he said. Stricter regulations to examine foreign takeovers of European companies were an option to better protect domestic technologies, Le Maire said. A decision on such rules would come by December, he added.

Google tax

A so-called “digital tax” was another example where Europe should show unity to defend its sovereign powers. The measure, heavily supported by the European Commission and the French government, would tax the revenues of large digital companies. “Is it normal, when multinational companies use personal data and earn money without paying taxes? Why should value creation by using data be exempt from taxes whereas every backer and every small and medium-sized business pays them?” Le Maire said.

Sometimes called the “GAFA tax,” because of its impact on Google, Apple, Facebook and Amazon, the 3-percent levy has drawn lukewarm support from the German government and been opposed by German business groups. German Finance Minister Olaf Scholz also has his doubts, but he is open to supporting a digital sales tax starting in 2021, if industrialized countries cannot agree on a global, minimum corporate tax rate.

Strengthening the eurozone was another priority on Le Maire’s list to establish Europe as a global power. “If a new financial and economic crisis would erupt tomorrow and affect Europe, the eurozone would not be able to respond adequately,” he said. Establishing a common eurozone budget, which would support euro countries in times of crisis, is crucial to this, Le Maire said. “A eurozone budget is part of it because it would better align the economies and bring countries out of a crisis faster.”

But here, too, Germany has been dragging its feet, fearing a transfer of payments to economically weaker eurozone countries. A eurozone unemployment insurance fund, proposed by Scholz, was quickly shot down by Economics Minister Peter Altmaier last month.

Without Germany’s support in all these issues, Le Maire will find it difficult to turn Europe into an “empire.” Franco-German agreement has been the engine of European integration and without it the continent is more impotent than powerful.

Thomas Hanke is Handelsblatt’s correspondent in Paris and Tanja Kuchenbecker is a correspondent for Handelsblatt in France. This story was adapted in English for Handelsblatt Global.

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Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Nov 13 10:29:14 2018, in response to Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain, posted by AlM on Tue Nov 13 10:20:33 2018.



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Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain

Posted by AlM on Tue Nov 13 11:15:34 2018, in response to Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Nov 13 10:29:14 2018.

Not honoring. Just noting.

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Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain

Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Nov 13 12:17:05 2018, in response to Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain, posted by AlM on Tue Nov 13 11:15:34 2018.

But our own president has expressed support for honoring Confederate traitors.

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Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Nov 13 12:21:35 2018, in response to Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Nov 13 12:17:05 2018.

Bigly.

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Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain

Posted by AlM on Tue Nov 13 12:24:06 2018, in response to Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Nov 13 12:17:05 2018.

So, IIRC, has Olog. That was more or less my point.

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Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Nov 13 15:02:49 2018, in response to Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Nov 13 12:17:05 2018.

Stop making stuff up.

You guys are worse hijackers than Luch. This thread is not about what you're BSing about.

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Re: French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire revives call for European Empire; says it’s “all about power”

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Nov 13 16:38:45 2018, in response to French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire revives call for European Empire; says it’s “all about power”, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Nov 13 10:26:24 2018.

Europe is done, the foreign muslim takeover is well underway and it will never be a monolithic powerhouse like it was 70 years ago.

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Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Nov 13 16:41:26 2018, in response to Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Nov 13 12:17:05 2018.

The only problem with that is at the Civil War presents a unique situation that is unlike others. Were they traitors to the North? Of course they were! But when all was said and done and the South lost, Grant let them come back into the fold so when remembering them in the course of history, they are still Americans. Americans that are traitors, but Americans none the less.

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Re: French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire revives call for European Empire; says it’s “all about power”

Posted by AlM on Tue Nov 13 16:41:58 2018, in response to Re: French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire revives call for European Empire; says it’s “all about power”, posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Nov 13 16:38:45 2018.

it will never be a monolithic powerhouse like it was 70 years ago

Huh? Europe was a monolithic powerhouse 70 years ago?

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Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain

Posted by AlM on Tue Nov 13 16:45:55 2018, in response to Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain, posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Nov 13 16:41:26 2018.

Unique? Petain was still a Frenchman after the war ended.

And by the way it was Hayes, not Grant, who ended Reconstruction.

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Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain

Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Nov 13 16:46:54 2018, in response to Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain, posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Nov 13 16:41:26 2018.

Most Americans don't have monuments built to them. There should be no monuments to Lee other than his own grave.

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Re: French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire revives call for European Empire; says it’s “all about power”

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Nov 13 16:48:29 2018, in response to Re: French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire revives call for European Empire; says it’s “all about power”, posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Nov 13 16:38:45 2018.

That's not why the Muslims are there. Think about what they and the Eurocrats have in common, and why those same Eurocrats are not worried about their presence.

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Re: French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire revives call for European Empire; says it’s “all about power”

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Nov 13 17:20:09 2018, in response to Re: French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire revives call for European Empire; says it’s “all about power”, posted by AlM on Tue Nov 13 16:41:58 2018.

Compared to now.

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Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Nov 13 17:20:54 2018, in response to Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain, posted by AlM on Tue Nov 13 16:45:55 2018.

You KNOW what I meant.

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Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Nov 13 17:21:46 2018, in response to Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Nov 13 16:46:54 2018.

NORTHERN Americans don't. SOUTHERN Americans do.

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Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain

Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Nov 13 17:22:21 2018, in response to Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain, posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Nov 13 17:21:46 2018.

The fuck with them. There is but one America, and Lee was a traitor to it.

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Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Nov 13 18:16:34 2018, in response to Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Nov 13 17:22:21 2018.

Yes and yes. But the Sons of the Confederacy disagree.

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Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain

Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Nov 13 18:17:02 2018, in response to Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain, posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Nov 13 18:16:34 2018.

Traitors

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Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Nov 13 18:22:29 2018, in response to Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Nov 13 18:17:02 2018.

Those sisterfuckers don't see it that way.

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Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain

Posted by Mtk52983 on Tue Nov 13 18:24:41 2018, in response to Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain, posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Nov 13 18:22:29 2018.

Too bad. They lost.

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Re: French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire revives call for European Empire; says it’s “all about power”

Posted by AlM on Tue Nov 13 18:55:27 2018, in response to Re: French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire revives call for European Empire; says it’s “all about power”, posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Nov 13 17:20:09 2018.

I guess you played hooky during history class, eh?

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Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain

Posted by AlM on Tue Nov 13 18:56:17 2018, in response to Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain, posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Nov 13 17:20:54 2018.

No. I don't know how you mean that the US Civil War was unique.

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Re: French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire revives call for European Empire; says it’s “all about power”

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Nov 13 18:58:10 2018, in response to Re: French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire revives call for European Empire; says it’s “all about power”, posted by AlM on Tue Nov 13 18:55:27 2018.

Nope!

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Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Nov 13 18:58:57 2018, in response to Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain, posted by AlM on Tue Nov 13 18:56:17 2018.

For U.S. history it is, because it was American against American.

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Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain

Posted by Dyre Dan on Tue Nov 13 18:59:06 2018, in response to French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Nov 13 10:17:13 2018.

New York had a ticker-tape parade for Petain in 1931, just two years before Hitler gained power. There is a list of ticker-tape parade honorees embedded in the sidewalk of lower Broadway today, consisting of separate pieces for each parade. Petain is there on the list. DeBlasio suggested that maybe the piece commemorating Petain's parade should be removed, but in the end it was decided to keep it, since it is supposed to be a historically accurate list of all such parades.

Likewise, if a ceremony is held in France honoring the French heroes of World War I, then Petain's name should be among them. But there should be no ceremony and no new object honoring just him.

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Re: French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire revives call for European Empire; says it’s “all about power”

Posted by AlM on Tue Nov 13 19:12:51 2018, in response to Re: French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire revives call for European Empire; says it’s “all about power”, posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Nov 13 18:58:10 2018.

Well then you're just deliberately ignorant. Europe 70 years ago was in disastrous shape. People were starving - a lot of people were kept alive by Care packages sent from the United States.


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Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain

Posted by orange blossom special on Tue Nov 13 19:30:07 2018, in response to Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Nov 13 10:24:29 2018.

The Moon is made out of cheese and is claimed by Switzerland. However, Denmark stakes claim to Mars. Therefore, in collaborating with JayZeeBMT, I can also random incoherently via stream of conscienceness.

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Re: French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire revives call for European Empire; says it’s “all about power”

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Nov 13 19:33:33 2018, in response to Re: French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire revives call for European Empire; says it’s “all about power”, posted by AlM on Tue Nov 13 19:12:51 2018.

Me, ig'nint?!

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Re: French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire revives call for European Empire; says it’s “all about power”

Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Nov 13 20:07:58 2018, in response to Re: French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire revives call for European Empire; says it’s “all about power”, posted by AlM on Tue Nov 13 19:12:51 2018.

And certainly Europe was never monolithic, and has never been more unified than it is now.*


*Or at least it was a few years ago before the rise of right wing populism.**

**Which Olog-hai's EUEUEUEUEUEUEU posts actually warned about.

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Re: French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire revives call for European Empire; says it’s “all about power”

Posted by Dyre Dan on Tue Nov 13 20:16:02 2018, in response to French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire revives call for European Empire; says it’s “all about power”, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Nov 13 10:26:24 2018.

Europe could not have the US deciding where European companies could do business.

That much seems obvious. Yet it seems like Trump is trying to do exactly that. If so, he has surely bitten off more than he can chew, and that, more than anything else, will destroy the relationship between the U.S. and Europe.

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Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Nov 14 11:21:28 2018, in response to Re: French president Emmanuel Macron wanted to “offer homage” to Nazi collaborator Philippe Pétain, posted by AlM on Tue Nov 13 10:20:33 2018.

Figured you wouldn't be able to address the actual topic, LuchAlM. No, nothing like it whatsoever. Thanks for yet another defense of Nazis out of you.

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Re: French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire revives call for European Empire; says it’s “all about power”

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Nov 14 11:31:27 2018, in response to Re: French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire revives call for European Empire; says it’s “all about power”, posted by Dyre Dan on Tue Nov 13 20:16:02 2018.

That much seems obvious. Yet it seems like Trump is trying to do exactly that

That's called a blatant lie on their part. The EU has been dictating who can and cannot do business there and elsewhere for decades. Guess you forgot completely about them stopping the GE-Honeywell merger; that was less than two decades ago.

And that has nothing to do with their ambitions of becoming an empire. They were talking about being an empire 11 years ago.

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Re: French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire revives call for European Empire; says it’s “all about power”

Posted by TRAIN DUDE on Wed Nov 14 11:41:19 2018, in response to Re: French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire revives call for European Empire; says it’s “all about power”, posted by Dyre Dan on Tue Nov 13 20:16:02 2018.

I don't understand the "bitten off more than he can chew" comment. I think he's chewing just fine right now. With the percipitous rise in European State nationalism, I don't see the EU standing against the US as a strong monolithic trade adversary. I also don't see them investing in a new multi-national Army to defend Europe.

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Re: French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire revives call for European Empire; says it’s “all about power”

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Nov 14 12:43:57 2018, in response to Re: French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire revives call for European Empire; says it’s “all about power”, posted by TRAIN DUDE on Wed Nov 14 11:41:19 2018.

They've been investing in the military for a long time; all it would take is to unite under one command. Merkel actually said "This is great; I'm annoying some people" after her open support for a EU military aroused objections.

Nigel Farage said yesterday that the EU started "a new cold war against the United States of America" and accused them of trying to "rewrite history".

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Re: French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire revives call for European Empire; says it’s “all about power”

Posted by Fred G on Wed Nov 14 12:59:01 2018, in response to Re: French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire revives call for European Empire; says it’s “all about power”, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Nov 14 12:43:57 2018.

If you care what Farage says. He would love to see a split between the US and Europe

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Re: French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire revives call for European Empire; says it’s “all about power”

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Nov 14 14:10:59 2018, in response to Re: French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire revives call for European Empire; says it’s “all about power”, posted by Fred G on Wed Nov 14 12:59:01 2018.

No non-Ologist cares what Nigel Falange has to say.

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Re: French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire revives call for European Empire; says it’s “all about power”

Posted by AlM on Wed Nov 14 14:17:36 2018, in response to Re: French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire revives call for European Empire; says it’s “all about power”, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Nov 14 14:10:59 2018.

Trumpists care.

(There is still a small difference.)

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