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| Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests (1413183) | |
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Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 17 10:50:56 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 10:35:12 2017. And I'm not a second-hand citizen, I'm a second-CLASS citizen. Me and 65,844,953 other people were taken as being fewer people than 62,979,879 others. Last I checked 65,844,954>62,979,879.It's not an important fact because we are NOT talking about changing the outcome of the past election! You just regurgitate the same arguments over and over again, despite the fact that they are non-responsive to my arguments. It's as if you're just repeating talking points. |
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Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 10:56:09 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 17 10:50:56 2017. It's not an important fact because we are NOT talking about changing the outcome of the past election!But it IS important that those numbers would be very different had the candidates had to campaign differently. You just regurgitate the same arguments over and over again, despite the fact that they are non-responsive to my arguments. As are you, and all the others that think the popular vote means something with the way things are done. I KNOW you are "not trying to change or say the election was wrong". But you are doing the same thing you accuse me of. The RESULTS would be DIFFERENT. |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jan 17 10:57:02 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 10:42:38 2017. You made a categorical statement, namely that the popular vote goes the way the big cities go. That categorical statement has been false in 8 of the last 17 elections.If you meant to say, since 2008 and going forward into the future, you would have been making a statement that was partially an opinion and I wouldn't have disagreed with you. If you meant to say, in the 3 most recent elections, you would have made a correct statement of fact. But you didn't say either of those things. So I have repeatedly told you that your claimed statement of fact, as you wrote it, is false. |
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Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 11:00:59 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by AlM on Tue Jan 17 10:57:02 2017. ou made a categorical statement, namely that the popular vote goes the way the big cities go. That categorical statement has been false in 8 of the last 17 elections.It may have been different in 1988 much less 1952!! City areas were smaller in the 1990's, much less the 80's, 70's, or the friggin 50's!! Seriously? The last "17 elections are irrelevant as it was a different time in the 90's much less the FRIGGIN 50's. And yes, I was talking about HOW elections are determined. Of course, you may as well go back to the 1800's urban population centers if you want to use the 80's or 50's. They are about as relevant. And the electoral college numbers have changed over time too. I never said it doesn't need tweaking. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 17 11:06:59 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 10:42:38 2017. If 2004 was a lifetime ago, then so was 1787, and yet you still think the electoral system developed in 1787 is good for 2020. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 17 11:10:22 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 10:56:09 2017. But it IS important that those numbers would be very different had the candidates had to campaign differently.It is not important to the argument we are having. At all. The actual popular vote percentages and numbers may have been different and Trump may well have won anyway (I doubt it, but that is a separate argument), but that is what I am advocating for. I'd rather the person who won the popular vote become the president even if that person is still Donald Trump. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Jan 17 11:11:30 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 10:22:32 2017. Do you know why Suffolk flipped red this time?BRENTWOOD! I'm serious. I think people have had enough!!!!! All the shootings and stabbings are opening eyes. People don't want waves of Central Americans transforming suburbia into San Salvador. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 11:23:28 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 17 11:06:59 2017. Yes I believe it is, as the same reasons for it then exist now. that is not to say that the numbers don't need to be updated or tweaked. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 11:25:13 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 17 11:10:22 2017. I understand that. However, any and all talk saying that it's important to see that Hillary got the popular vote is completely moot, as again, campaigning WOULD have been different, as well as the results.I don't agree that a popular system, disregarding the states would be better. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 11:26:09 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Jan 17 11:11:30 2017. I am sure that if you look at the Brentwood area itself, it was quite blue. But yes, people are absolutely sick of the PC stuff. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Jan 17 11:34:12 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 10:48:33 2017. Do the people in places like Walton, New York, have a clue as to what's going in the NY metro area? Why should a bubble consisting of about 3000 people be more important than a "bubble" of over 19 million? |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jan 17 11:37:04 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by 3-9 on Tue Jan 17 11:34:12 2017. Do the people in places like Walton, New York, have a clue as to what's going in the NY metro area?No. And LI people don't have a clue what's going on in the city any more than city people have a clue what's going on in LI. |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jan 17 11:37:59 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 11:00:59 2017. The last "17 elections are irrelevant as it was a different time in the 90's much less the FRIGGIN 50's.OK, fine, so your categorical statement was false. If you restrict your statement to the last 3 elections, it's true. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 17 11:38:30 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 11:23:28 2017. The numbers are "updated [and] tweaked" with each census. It's that system itself that's wrong. |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jan 17 11:38:55 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 11:25:13 2017. Campaigning would have been different. You have no evidence that the results would have been different. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Jan 17 11:40:16 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 11:26:09 2017. Yeah, Brentwood would be blue.But the people around Suffolk are aware of the crime and don't want it to spread to the rest of Suffolk. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 17 11:42:19 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 11:25:13 2017. I don't buy that campaigning argument. There is nothing that would have convinced me to vote for Trump. Hillary Clinton could have killed someone in broad daylight on 5th Avenue and I'd still vote for her.The campaigning argument would have worked in 2000 were both the popular and electoral votes were very close and the candidates did not arouse such visceral hatred. NOTE: If the Democrat were a murderer and the Republican candidate Ted Cruz or something, I'd vote for the Republican. It's Donald Trump that I'd never vote for, unless he were running against Gus Hall. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Jan 17 11:46:18 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 17 10:23:27 2017. I have to disagree about the air time. Like in the general election, it allowed Trump to reach a lot more people with a whole lot less money. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 17 12:02:40 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by R2ChinaTown on Tue Jan 17 10:44:05 2017. What audio tape? If you're talking about the Access Hollywood/Billy Bush bus chat, then I never had a problem with that.The media was hard on the Clinton foundation despite the fact that the Trump Foundation and Trump University were actual scams. Clinton was a shitty candidate though. Trump is worse. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 17 12:04:52 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 10:48:33 2017. There aren't "a lot more of them." There are fewer people who live in rural areas. IINM about 80% of the population is "urbanized." I am fairly sure that if such a number is correct it includes suburbs. Thus a significant minority is rural. Why should they matter more than the majority of the country? You claim that it would be wrong for New York and Los Angeles to decide the election, when they never will because they are a significant minority of the national population. But why do you think that it's OK that another significant minority should be able to decide the election? |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jan 17 12:15:06 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 17 11:42:19 2017. There is nothing that would have convinced me to vote for Trump.And you are far from alone. It's hard to imagine a different campaign strategy by Trump that could have erased a deficit of 2.8 million votes. There's always the argument that voters in non-swing states would have come out in greater numbers. Well maybe so, but the non-swing states went strongly Democratic (lots more Democratic margin in CA, NY, and IL than there was Republican margin in TX, GA, and various smaller states). So if anything a different set of rules probably would have helped the Democrats slightly. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 12:25:14 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by AlM on Tue Jan 17 11:37:04 2017. And LI people don't have a clue what's going on in the city any more than city people have a clue what's going on in LI.That is not true, as many work in the city, and are there every day. the same can't be true of the city residents, oh yes, of course the Democratic elite that have multi million dollar vacation homes in the Hamptons. The hamptons, another clueless bubble. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 12:25:31 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by 3-9 on Tue Jan 17 11:34:12 2017. No, but there are a lot more areas like them. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 12:26:19 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by AlM on Tue Jan 17 11:37:59 2017. It's not false at all, I never intended to imply elections from the 80's much less the friggin 50's. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 17 12:27:47 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 10:47:10 2017. How is that responsive? |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jan 17 12:28:35 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 12:25:14 2017. People who only work in the city usually don't have a clue about what goes on except right around their workplace. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 17 12:28:46 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 12:25:14 2017. That so-called "Democratic elite" are an extremely small number. Haven't you heard of the term "one percent?" |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 17 12:29:39 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 12:25:31 2017. So what? Legislators represent people, not acres or trees. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 17 12:30:29 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 12:26:19 2017. So it was OK for big cities to sway elections in the 50s but not OK today? What changed for you? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 12:30:46 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 17 11:38:30 2017. It's not at all the system that is wrong. And yes, it is tweaked after each sensus, but it may be the power that be at the time of the census that tweaks it the way they see fit. And I do agree that that is as asinine as lifetime Supreme Court judges, but that is another topic.But that said, that doesn't make the Electoral college system wrong. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 12:32:19 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by AlM on Tue Jan 17 11:38:55 2017. But there is no way they would be the same, as campaigning as well as voting would be starkly different. I didn't say that the results themselves who won and who didn't would be different, but there is absolutely no way that the actual numbers would be the same. I already said that Hillary may very have well have still won. or not. |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jan 17 12:32:34 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 12:26:19 2017. This statement as a normal person would read it is false. It's only been true about 50% of the time since the Roosevelt era ended.Again, the elections would always go the way New york City and Los Angeles go. If you meant it as an opinion as to what will happen in the future, then I agree, it's only an opinion and at the moment is neither true nor false because it's a prediction. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 12:33:06 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Jan 17 11:40:16 2017. But that has been the case since the 70's. Everyone knows and always knew Brentwood is a crappy area since then. |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jan 17 12:33:32 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 12:30:46 2017. And I do agree that that is as asinine as lifetime Supreme Court judgesThat terrible slaveowner Thomas Jefferson was against appointments for justices, much less lifetime tenure. He accused it of being "the leaven of the old…assimilat(ing) to itself the new" and said that "whatever power in government is independent is absolute also", meaning unaccountable if they did something wrong. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Jan 17 12:33:54 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by 3-9 on Tue Jan 17 11:46:18 2017. Trump ran a ton of ads in Florida. It was impossible to watch television or listen to radio without a Trump ad.The mood in America is what helped Trump. #blm did a lot for Trump. Their behavior really helped. Similar behavior like Beyonce's halftime show, Kaepernick kneeling, and the stupid race baiting for Cam Newton vs. Peyton Manning. Or men using the women's room and the overreaction by celebrities and companies boycotting NC because of this. All this shit set the mood in America for Trump to win. |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jan 17 12:34:46 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 12:32:19 2017. Why would voting be starkly different?I agree more people would have voted. But why would the margins have been very different? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 12:35:16 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 17 11:42:19 2017. And that is wonderful. there is absolutely no mistaking that campaigning would have been very different from both candidates.And that is even forgetting that Clinton spent 8 times as much as Trump did. That's an amazing number. If the numbers are what they are with Trump spending 8 times LESS than Hillary, it really shows something. |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jan 17 12:36:59 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 17 12:30:29 2017. in the 50sAnd 60s, 70s, 80s, and 00s. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 12:37:05 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Jan 17 12:33:54 2017. You are correct. All the wacky Leftist things going on help Trump tremendously. And Meryl streep types continue to help. They are completely out of touch with reality.The more they do this, the more they turn people AWAY not to them. The cheerleaders wouldn't vote for anyone on the right anyway, it's the people in the middle, the rational middle that are absolutely sick of it. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Jan 17 12:37:15 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 12:33:06 2017. I bet if we could find real data on shootings and stabbings in Brentwood in the 70's and 80's vs. now it would mind blowing.Central Americans have really transformed Brentwood, Central Islip, North Amityville, Copaigue, and Huntington Station. If Ecuadorans instead of Salvadorans were the dominant demographic in Suffolk, especially Brentwood, things would be different. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 12:39:23 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 17 12:02:40 2017. I said Clinton was a crappy candidate months ago, and the loyal leftists (who can never ever admit when their party has an issue) pounced on me and said the exact opposite.I never claimed Trump was a good candidate. I even was undecided until the very end, even even then I didn't vote for either of them. But that said, I am not nearly as upset as the loony left is. I was stunned, yes, but I was over it by the next day. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Jan 17 12:40:12 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 12:37:05 2017. I forgot Awards shows. Whether it's music or movies, someone has to go on a Leftist rant at these shows.I no longer watch ESPN. Everything is politicized. As The Left politicizes every aspect of life, they motivate me to not vote Democrat, which I used to do. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 12:40:34 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 17 12:04:52 2017. But you are making the assumption that all city urban voters are blue |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 12:41:34 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by AlM on Tue Jan 17 12:28:35 2017. Sure, but they know a lot more than the Democratic elite waltzing through Manhattan every day, and once and a while "get out to go to the Hamptons". |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 17 12:42:00 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 12:30:46 2017. There is no "tweaking" involved. Unless you are claiming that the Census Bureau undercounts or overcounts state populations.And we disagree on it being wrong. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 12:42:11 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 17 12:28:46 2017. Yes, but even the less elite in Manhattan are usually Democrats (clueless no less). |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 12:43:10 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 17 12:30:29 2017. There were even less people outside the city in the "50's". Suburbia was in it's infancy. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 17 12:48:39 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 12:35:16 2017. I don't believe that campaigning matters that much. In this election more than others people's minds were already made up. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 17 12:49:46 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 12:43:10 2017. You have argued in favor of rural areas. It is the rural areas that have shrunk since then. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 17 12:52:03 2017, in response to Re: DC Police forbidden to use body cameras at Inauguration Day protests, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 17 12:39:23 2017. The only thing that I said was that as bad as Clinton might be, she was much better than Trump. That remains true and more people agree with me than not. |
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