Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant

Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant (1375190)	Home · Maps · About

Home > OTChat

[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]

(1375190)	view threaded
Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant
Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 25 12:46:30 2016 fiogf49gjkf0d Engadget Judge says the FBI can hack your computer without a warrant 'Computers accessing the internet can — and eventually will — be hacked,' says Judge Henry Coke Morgan, Jr. Jessica Conditt June 24, 2016 The FBI did not need a warrant to hack a US citizen's computer, according to a ruling handed down on Tuesday by Senior US District Court Judge Henry Coke Morgan, Jr. If the decision is upheld, it may have ripple effects that essentially allow government agencies to remotely search and seize information from any computer in the US without a warrant, probable cause or suspicion, the EFF argues. The ruling relates to a worldwide FBI sting dubbed Operation Pacifier that targeted child pornography sites on anonymity networks such as Tor. The FBI deployed hacking tools across computers in the US, Chile, Denmark and Greece, and caught 1,500 pedophiles on the Dark Web. As part of Operation Pacifier, authorities briefly seized and continued running a server that hosted the child pornography site Playpen, meanwhile deploying a hacking tool known internally as a network investigative technique. The NIT collected roughly 1,500 IP addresses of visitors to the site. Judge Morgan, Jr. wrote on Tuesday that the FBI's actions did not violate the Fourth Amendment, which protects US citizens from unreasonable search and seizure. "The Court finds that no Fourth Amendment violation occurred here because the government did not need a warrant to capture Defendant's IP address" and other information from the suspect's computer, he wrote. "Generally, one has no reasonable expectation of privacy in an IP address when using the internet," Morgan, Jr. said. "Even an internet user who employs the Tor network in an attempt to mask his or her IP address lacks a reasonable expectation of privacy in his or her IP address." Basically, the judge argued, computers are hacked every day and no one should expect privacy while operating online. "The rise of computer hacking via the internet has changed the public's reasonable expectations of privacy," he wrote. "Now, it seems unreasonable to think that a computer connected to the web is immune from invasion. Indeed, the opposite holds true: In today's digital world, it appears to be a virtual certainty that computers accessing the internet can — and eventually will — be hacked." A Massachusetts court previously threw out evidence gathered by the FBI in one Playpen case, ruling that the operation relied on an invalid warrant. The bureau has moved to keep its NIT software classified, citing national security concerns if it were made public. In April, the Supreme Court upheld the FBI's proposed changes to Rule 41, allowing judges to approve remote access to suspects' computers that fall outside their jurisdiction. Under the new rules, a judge in New York can authorize hacking a computer in Alaska, for example. A bipartisan Senate bill called the Stop Mass Hacking Act aims to block these expanded powers. There's a similar bill making its way through the House of Representatives, as well, according to Reuters. Congress has until December 1^st to reject or amend the Supreme Court's ruling — if it doesn't, the changes to Rule 41 will take effect as planned.
Post a New Response

(1375192)	view threaded
Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant
Posted by bingbong* on Sat Jun 25 12:52:37 2016, in response to Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 25 12:46:30 2016.* fiogf49gjkf0d So all the RW has to do is string this along until December and they get their wish. As if anyone's going to notice one more thing added to everything else Congress is stringing along.
Post a New Response

(1375196)	view threaded
Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant
Posted by R2ChinaTown* on Sat Jun 25 13:43:51 2016, in response to Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant, posted by bingbong on Sat Jun 25 12:52:37 2016.* fiogf49gjkf0d Just another constitutionally protected right being taken away by the left.
Post a New Response

(1375197)	view threaded
Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant
Posted by SelkirkTMO* on Sat Jun 25 13:49:57 2016, in response to Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant, posted by R2ChinaTown on Sat Jun 25 13:43:51 2016.* fiogf49gjkf0d Maybe your congresschildren might want to do something about it then. Heh. Fat chance of that.
Post a New Response

(1375199)	view threaded
Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant
Posted by bingbong* on Sat Jun 25 13:58:46 2016, in response to Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant, posted by R2ChinaTown on Sat Jun 25 13:43:51 2016.* fiogf49gjkf0d Lulz. Since when isn't Paul Ryan RW? Moar lulz.
Post a New Response

(1375202)	view threaded
Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant
Posted by Dave* on Sat Jun 25 15:35:27 2016, in response to Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 25 12:46:30 2016.* fiogf49gjkf0d I doubt this will be upheld on appeal.
Post a New Response

(1375203)	view threaded
Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant
Posted by ChicagoMotorman* on Sat Jun 25 15:42:38 2016, in response to Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant, posted by bingbong on Sat Jun 25 13:58:46 2016.* fiogf49gjkf0d Klutz and more klutz.
Post a New Response

(1375214)	view threaded
Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant
Posted by R2ChinaTown* on Sat Jun 25 17:50:35 2016, in response to Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 25 13:49:57 2016.* fiogf49gjkf0d Why do you work so hard at sounding like an idiot?
Post a New Response

(1375215)	view threaded
Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant
Posted by SelkirkTMO* on Sat Jun 25 18:12:26 2016, in response to Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant, posted by R2ChinaTown on Sat Jun 25 17:50:35 2016.* fiogf49gjkf0d With you, it's like dancing the limbo to try to get down to your level. I'm scraping the floor and you still can't comprehend.
Post a New Response

(1375216)	view threaded
Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant
Posted by SelkirkTMO* on Sat Jun 25 18:16:10 2016, in response to Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant, posted by Dave on Sat Jun 25 15:35:27 2016.* fiogf49gjkf0d You'd be surprised. When "terrorism" isn't enough, the next level is "think of the children." But look at the bright side. Hillary now has an alibi. :)
Post a New Response

(1375219)	view threaded
Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant
Posted by Dave* on Sat Jun 25 19:39:17 2016, in response to Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 25 18:16:10 2016.* fiogf49gjkf0d Nah, similar issues to this have been decided before in other circuits and the 4th Amendment applies.
Post a New Response

(1375221)	view threaded
Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant
Posted by 3-9* on Sat Jun 25 19:52:53 2016, in response to Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant, posted by Dave on Sat Jun 25 19:39:17 2016.* fiogf49gjkf0d For just the IP address? I'm not sure about that. I also think the title of the post is misleading, since they're scooping up data on the server side, as opposed to actually going into your computer, unless I'm mistaken.
Post a New Response

(1375223)	view threaded
Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant
Posted by R2ChinaTown* on Sat Jun 25 20:25:37 2016, in response to Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 25 18:12:26 2016.* fiogf49gjkf0d After admitting to being married to miss piggy, scraping the floor is a step up for you.
Post a New Response

(1375229)	view threaded
Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant
Posted by Dave* on Sat Jun 25 21:17:56 2016, in response to Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant, posted by 3-9 on Sat Jun 25 19:52:53 2016.* fiogf49gjkf0d Hopefully it will be appealed ASAP and heard ASAP by the Court of Appeals.
Post a New Response

(1375230)	view threaded
Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant
Posted by AlM* on Sat Jun 25 21:30:57 2016, in response to Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant, posted by Dave on Sat Jun 25 15:35:27 2016.* fiogf49gjkf0d Badly written article. I think it says that they kept a server running and collected the IP addresses of computers that made requests of it. Not sure this is any more a 4th amendment violation than looking at mailing addresses of people who buy stuff by mail.
Post a New Response

(1375236)	view threaded
Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant
Posted by Henry R32 #3730* on Sat Jun 25 22:07:43 2016, in response to Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant, posted by Dave on Sat Jun 25 21:17:56 2016.* fiogf49gjkf0d How? Ordinarily I'm very pro-privacy but in this case I don't see how anything was illegal. There was no hacking, other than the Tor exploit, which we've known existed for some time. It's not as if the FBI were portscanning users or installing spyware on their computers. Essentially, they found a way to make Tor spit out the IP address of users who think they're anonymous, and collected the IPs of people going to a website to obtain illegal content. This isn't any stranger than deploying a license plate scanner (capable of seeing through obfuscation) near a known drug hot spot to get a list of possible clients and dealers.
Post a New Response

(1375237)	view threaded
Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant
Posted by Dave* on Sat Jun 25 22:17:35 2016, in response to Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Jun 25 22:07:43 2016.* fiogf49gjkf0d Driving a car in public removes expectations of privacy. The cops aren't going into the cars, which would require a warrant unless they see something illegal in plain view or have permission from the owner to search the car.
Post a New Response

(1375238)	view threaded
Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant
Posted by Dave* on Sat Jun 25 22:18:17 2016, in response to Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant, posted by AlM on Sat Jun 25 21:30:57 2016.* fiogf49gjkf0d Could be. I'd like to read the actual decision to see what happened.
Post a New Response

(1375255)	view threaded
Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant
Posted by SelkirkTMO* on Sat Jun 25 23:54:28 2016, in response to Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant, posted by 3-9 on Sat Jun 25 19:52:53 2016.* fiogf49gjkf0d Nope ... NIT is a trojan horse program that is downloaded to the computers of the suspects giving them full access and control of the contents. That old 4th Amendment is, as Dubya once was claimed to say, a "worthless piece of paper." The REAL question is if a judge signed off on Rule 41 to let them do that.
Post a New Response

(1375257)	view threaded
Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant
Posted by SelkirkTMO* on Sat Jun 25 23:56:26 2016, in response to Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Jun 25 22:07:43 2016.* fiogf49gjkf0d Getting the IP address from the TOR service is as easy as setting up an "onion node" and then deep-packet inspecting the TCP headers of the traffic passing through. From that, all it takes is an enticement and an infected file that isn't what it claims to be for them to download and use one of many exploits for Flash or Java or even the old trusty "In order to view this video, you need to update your codec." Bam, infected.
Post a New Response

(1375258)	view threaded
Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant
Posted by SelkirkTMO* on Sat Jun 25 23:57:47 2016, in response to Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant, posted by Dave on Sat Jun 25 22:17:35 2016.* fiogf49gjkf0d Real issue here though is did a judge sign off on 41? If so, gotcha.
Post a New Response

(1375262)	view threaded
Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant
Posted by SelkirkTMO* on Sun Jun 26 00:09:07 2016, in response to Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant, posted by R2ChinaTown on Sat Jun 25 20:25:37 2016.* fiogf49gjkf0d Such a clever retort. Thanks. :)
Post a New Response

(1375264)	view threaded
Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant
Posted by SelkirkTMO* on Sun Jun 26 00:13:37 2016, in response to Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant, posted by AlM on Sat Jun 25 21:30:57 2016.* fiogf49gjkf0d Yep ... bottom line here is were they just sniffing, or offering bait.
Post a New Response

(1375268)	view threaded
Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant
Posted by Henry R32 #3730* on Sun Jun 26 00:28:21 2016, in response to Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant, posted by Dave on Sat Jun 25 22:17:35 2016.* fiogf49gjkf0d The FBI wasn't going into the computers either, just using a vulnerability to "read the plate" (get the IP address). Using the public internet removes expectations of privacy the same as driving on any road.
Post a New Response

(1375291)	view threaded
Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant
Posted by Dave* on Sun Jun 26 06:40:01 2016, in response to Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Jun 26 00:28:21 2016.* fiogf49gjkf0d You make a good point. The 9th Circuit had ruled an internet user has no expectation of privacy in routing information submitted to an ISP in order to deliver an internet communication, so even though this hacking case was in VA perhaps it is a reasonable extension of the 9th Cir. decision?
Post a New Response

(1375300)	view threaded
Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant
Posted by SMAZ* on Sun Jun 26 09:52:27 2016, in response to Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 25 12:46:30 2016.* fiogf49gjkf0d The FBI did not need a warrant to hack a US citizen's computer, according to a ruling handed down on Tuesday by Senior US District Court Judge Henry Coke Morgan, Jr. From Wikipedia: "On October 22, 1991, Morgan was nominated by President George H. W. Bush to a new seat on the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia"
Post a New Response

(1375302)	view threaded
Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant
Posted by SMAZ* on Sun Jun 26 10:11:22 2016, in response to Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant, posted by Dave on Sun Jun 26 06:40:01 2016.* fiogf49gjkf0d perhaps it is a reasonable extension of the 9th Cir. decision? It makes for persuasive precedent.
Post a New Response

(1375453)	view threaded
Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant
Posted by Dave* on Mon Jun 27 04:56:35 2016, in response to Re: Federal judge says FBI can hack your computer without a warrant, posted by SMAZ on Sun Jun 26 09:52:27 2016.* fiogf49gjkf0d So what?
Post a New Response

[ Return to the Message Index ]