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Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jun 24 01:54:57 2016

fiogf49gjkf0d
EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU

NY Times

Britain Votes to Leave E.U., Stunning the World

By Steven Erlanger
June 23, 2016
Britain has voted to leave the European Union, a historic decision sure to reshape the nation’s place in the world, rattle the Continent and rock political establishments throughout the West.

With all but a handful of the country’s cities and towns reporting Friday morning, the Leave campaign held a 52 percent to 48 percent lead. The BBC called the race for the Leave campaign shortly before 4:45 a.m., with 13.1 million votes having been counted in favor of leaving and 12.2 million in favor of remaining.

The value of the British pound plummeted as financial markets absorbed the news.

Despite opinion polls ahead of the referendum on Thursday that showed either side in a position to win, the outcome nonetheless stunned much of Britain, Europe and the trans-Atlantic alliance, highlighting the power of anti-elite, populist and nationalist sentiment at a time of economic and cultural dislocation.

“Dare to dream that the dawn is breaking on an independent United Kingdom,” Nigel Farage, the leader of the U.K. Independence Party, one of the primary forces behind the push for a referendum on leaving the European Union, told cheering supporters just after 4 a.m.

Britain will become the first country to leave the 28-member bloc, which has been increasingly weighed down by its failures to deal fully with a succession of crises, from the financial collapse of 2008 to a resurgent Russia and the massive influx of migrants last year.

The result left Prime Minister David Cameron, who led the charge for Britain to remain a member of the European Union, badly weakened and at risk of losing his job. It was a remarkable victory for the country’s anti-European forces, which not long ago were considered to have little chance of prevailing.

Financial markets, which had been anticipating that Britain would vote to stay in, braced for a day of losses and possible turmoil. Economists had predicted that a vote to leave the bloc could do substantial damage to the British economy.

For the European Union, the result is a disaster, raising questions about the direction, cohesion and future of a bloc built on liberal values and shared sovereignty that represents, with NATO, a vital component of Europe’s postwar structure.

Britain is the second-largest economy after Germany in the European Union, a nuclear power with a seat on the United Nations Security Council, an advocate of free-market economics and a close ally of the United States.

The loss of Britain is an enormous blow to the credibility of a bloc already under pressure from slow growth, high unemployment, the migrant crisis, Greece’s debt woes and the conflict in Ukraine.

“The main impact will be massive disorder in the E.U. system for the next two years,” said Thierry de Montbrial, founder and executive chairman of the French Institute of International Relations. “There will be huge political transition costs, on how to solve the British exit, and the risk of a domino effect or bank run from other countries that think of leaving.”

Europe will have to “reorganize itself in a system of different degrees of association,” said Karl Kaiser, a Harvard professor and former director of the German Council on Foreign Relations. “Europe does have an interest in keeping Britain in the single market, if possible, and in an ad hoc security relationship.”

While leaders of the Leave campaign spoke earnestly about sovereignty and the supremacy of Parliament or in honeyed tones about “the bright sunlit uplands” of Britain’s future free of Brussels, it was anxiety about immigration — membership in the European Union means freedom of movement and labor throughout the bloc — that defined and probably swung the campaign.

With net migration to Britain of 330,000 people in 2015, more than half of them from the European Union, Mr. Cameron had no effective response to how he could limit the influx. And there was no question that while the immigrants contributed more to the economy and to tax receipts than they cost, parts of Britain felt that its national identity was under assault and that the influx was putting substantial pressure on schools, health care and housing.

The campaign run by one of the loudest proponents of leaving, the U.K. Independence Party, or UKIP, flirted with xenophobia, nativism and what some of its critics considered racism. But the official, more mainstream Leave campaign also invoked immigration as an issue and its slogan, “Take control,” resonated with voters who feel that the government is failing to regulate the inflow of people from Europe and beyond.

Other anti-establishment and far-right parties in Europe, like the National Front of Marine Le Pen in France, Geert Wilder’s party in the Netherlands and the Alternative for Germany party will celebrate the outcome. The depth of anti-Europe sentiment could be a key factor in national elections scheduled next year in the other two most important countries of the European Union, France and Germany.

The British campaign featured assertions and allegations tossed around with little regard to the facts. Both sides played to emotion, and the most common emotion played upon was fear.

The Remain side, citing scores of experts and elite opinion, warned that Brexit would mean an economic catastrophe, a plunging pound, higher taxes, more austerity and the loss of jobs.

The Leave side warned that remaining would produce uncontrolled immigration, crime and terrorism, with hordes pouring into Britain from Turkey, a country of 77 million Muslims that borders Syria and Iraq and hopes to join the European Union.

Just a week before the vote, the country was jolted by the brutal murder of a young Labour member of Parliament, Jo Cox, 41, a strong supporter of Remain. A man who prosecutors said shouted “Britain first,” “This is for Britain,” and “Keep Britain independent” was charged with her murder.

In England especially, 85 percent of the population of Britain, many people fell back on national pride, cultural exceptionalism and nostalgia. Many English voters chose to believe the insistence of anti-European leaders like Boris Johnson, the former mayor of London and potential challenger to Mr. Cameron, that as a great nation, Britain would be more powerful and successful outside the European Union than inside.

In Scotland and Northern Ireland, by contrast, there was a strong pro-European feeling that has only increased tensions within the United Kingdom itself.

With this result, those who favor Scottish independence will have a new wind for another referendum, even if they may wish to wait until they are sure to win one.

And Northern Ireland, which has long had an open border with the Republic of Ireland, a member of the European Union, will face a new reality. That open border will become the border between the European Union and a nonmember, and for security and economic reasons will have to be equipped with border posts to check goods and passports.

Mr. Cameron felt pushed into announcing the referendum in 2013 by the anti-Europe wing of his own party, amplified by concerns among other Tories that UKIP and its leader, Nigel Farage, were cutting too sharply into the Conservative vote.

Still, Mr. Cameron entered the campaign with the force of economic experts, Mr. Obama, European allies and big business behind him. But as ever, referendums are not about the question asked but the political mood at the time, and the political mood is sour.

Mr. Cameron was also, predictably, undermined by the new Labour Party leader, Jeremy Corbyn, a man of the more traditional hard left who was a surprise choice to lead the party after its disastrous defeat in the May 2015 elections.

Mr. Corbyn voted against British membership in what was then the European Economic Community in the last referendum in 1975. This time, he said he and Labour would support continued membership, but he refused to campaign alongside Mr. Cameron, reluctant to save his political opponent.

And asked how he felt about the European Union, Mr. Corbyn said he was “not a huge fan,” and on a scale of 10, Mr. Corbyn said between “seven and seven and a half.”

While Mr. Cameron emphasized risks to Britain’s economy and security and national influence, Mr. Corbyn talked of protecting workers’ rights.

The victory of the Leave campaign and Britain’s exit from the European Union risks making Britain a poorer place, if the pre-referendum economic forecasts prove true, and hurt many of the very people that Mr. Corbyn represents.


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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 24 02:03:00 2016, in response to Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jun 24 01:54:57 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Another fine conservative mess. :)

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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by Express Rider on Fri Jun 24 02:08:58 2016, in response to Re: Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 24 02:03:00 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Where's Monty Python (and George Orwell) when we need them?

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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 24 02:23:18 2016, in response to Re: Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by Express Rider on Fri Jun 24 02:08:58 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Booking flights to Belgium I would imagine.

I posted the Brexit film here a couple of days ago, One hour and 15 minutes and pretty much explained what was coming and why. What's really interesting is that the vast majority of the "remain" votes came from Northern Ireland and the whole of Scotland. It's going to get interesting because the Scottish have already started the process of another go at secession, and the Northern Irish are already talking to the republic. At this rate, the UK might jut be eastern Wales and London by the time the dust has settled.

And in the wings, Netherlands, France and Italy are now starting to chomp at the bit too. Poor Olog. Kept trying to tell him when he was all worked up about the EU years ago that this day would come if Merkel refused to properly negotiate. :)

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And ... Cameron hits the silk

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 24 03:40:46 2016, in response to Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jun 24 01:54:57 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/eu-referendum-results-live-brexit-wins-as-britain-votes-to-leave/

Britain has voted to leave the European Union, with the Leave campaign securing around 51.8 per cent of the vote.

David Cameron has resigned as Prime Minister in an emotional speech outside 10 Downing Street.

While England voted overwhelmingly for Brexit, Scotland and Northern Ireland backed Remain. Statements are expected to be made by Sinn Fein and the SNP later today calling for a breakaway from the Union. London backed Remain but the turnout was lower than expected because of bad weather.

The pound crashed to the lowest level since 1985 as sterling fell below $1.35. Complacency about a Brexit outcome will come clear this morning, as out of hours trading suggests that the FTSE 100 will drop by 8.8pc, or by some 560 points. The fall would be the third worst in history if stocks ended the day down as sharply.



In a speech outside 10 Downing Street he said:

"The British people have voted to leave the EU and their will must be respected.

The will of the British people is an instruction that must be delivered.

There can be no doubt about the result.

Across the world people have been watching the choice that Britain has made.

This will require strong, determined and committed leadership.

I am very proud to have been Prime Minister of this country for six years.

I have held nothing back.

The british people have made a very clear decision to

I think the country requires fresh leadership.

I do not think I can be the captain to take the country to its next destination.

In my view I think we should have a new prime minister in place by the start of the Conservative conference in October."

---

Don't let the door hit you on the arse. Had you, and your conservatives not shafted the working people all these years, this might not have been the outcome. Let this also be a lesson for America, people are tired of being servile to the rich and their interests, and voting for Trump ain't going to get us there either. My opinion.

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Re: And 55 Labour MP's have told Corbyn to get stuffed as well

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 24 03:52:27 2016, in response to And ... Cameron hits the silk, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 24 03:40:46 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

Kevin Schofield ‏@PolhomeEditor 41m41 minutes ago

Am told a letter signed by at least 55 Labour MPs calling for Jeremy Corbyn to go will be delivered to the leader's office next week.


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Re: And 55 Labour MP's have told Corbyn to get stuffed as well

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 24 03:54:14 2016, in response to Re: And 55 Labour MP's have told Corbyn to get stuffed as well, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 24 03:52:27 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Source on that:

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/76495/exclusive-jeremy-corbyn-face-shadow-cabinet-calls

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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by LuchAAA on Fri Jun 24 04:29:06 2016, in response to Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jun 24 01:54:57 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
They should have waited until July 4.

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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jun 24 06:00:57 2016, in response to Re: Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by LuchAAA on Fri Jun 24 04:29:06 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Why? That's a date associated with a great indignity of theirs.

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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by SLRT on Fri Jun 24 06:33:22 2016, in response to Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jun 24 01:54:57 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
The Empire Strikes Back.

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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by R2ChinaTown on Fri Jun 24 07:06:55 2016, in response to Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jun 24 01:54:57 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Some quick thoughts on yesterday's very it's:
British people are facing the same issues we face here with unemployment, immigration and securing Borders at the top of the list.

Barack Obama lectured the British to stay in the EU. Hillary supported raining in the EU. Trump expressed support for BREXIT.

Result will be some short lived volatility in the financial markets here and there. Outs should settle quickly but the trend in the western world may be moving to conservatism once again.

Hillary Clinton must be a bit concerned right now.



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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jun 24 07:17:25 2016, in response to Re: Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by R2ChinaTown on Fri Jun 24 07:06:55 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
the western world may be moving to conservatism once again.

Just like in the 1930s. What a great future they created.

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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jun 24 07:18:53 2016, in response to Re: Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 24 02:23:18 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
This time Scottish Independence will win. The United Kingdom has signed their own death warrant.

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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Fri Jun 24 10:40:37 2016, in response to Re: Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jun 24 06:00:57 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
IAWTP. If they had defeated the "colonies", who knows, they might be a superpower instead of the US (well, we would be part of that superpower anyway).

There was an episode of the TV series "Sliders" that touched on that, don't know the exact season and episode #. Great show :)

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Re: And ... Cameron hits the silk

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Fri Jun 24 10:45:37 2016, in response to And ... Cameron hits the silk, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 24 03:40:46 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Sometimes the peasants fight back. 😆

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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by SMAZ on Fri Jun 24 10:55:15 2016, in response to Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jun 24 01:54:57 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Good riddance.

Don't let the door his the English and Welsh in the ass.

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Re: And ... Cameron hits the silk

Posted by bingbong on Fri Jun 24 13:10:51 2016, in response to And ... Cameron hits the silk, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 24 03:40:46 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Gotta acknowledge this about British conservatives......they at least recognize the will of the voters.

Unlike conservatives on this side of the pond.

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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by LuchAAA on Fri Jun 24 13:23:47 2016, in response to Re: Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jun 24 06:00:57 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
W1N/

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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by R2Chinatown on Fri Jun 24 15:35:15 2016, in response to Re: Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jun 24 07:17:25 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
I didn't think that you were that old to remember.

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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by 3-9 on Fri Jun 24 15:39:20 2016, in response to Re: Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Fri Jun 24 10:40:37 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Nah, I think the US would have broken away eventually. It might even would have happened before the 20th century, but the US would be smaller and probably not a superpower (other chunks of North America would probably have stayed in other countries' hands, not willing to sell to Britain).

I think Sliders wasted their premise, IMO. I didn't see the whole series, but their alternate reality stories also seemed to be really shallow, not really exploring the possibilities.

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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by bingbong on Fri Jun 24 15:41:03 2016, in response to Re: Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by R2ChinaTown on Fri Jun 24 07:06:55 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
I wouldn't say the western world is leaning towards conservatism again. It's actually attempting to break free from it. It seeks to break free from oppression, the only attribute conservatism clings to fervently.

And...in before.....if the "liberal" EU was seeking to be oppressive, they would not have put an exit mechanism in the charter to begin with.

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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by R2Chinatown on Fri Jun 24 15:45:27 2016, in response to Re: Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by bingbong on Fri Jun 24 15:41:03 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Britain has rejected the worldism of the left. Other European nations will follow. Barack Obama and Silly Hilly came out against leaving. The British have rejected their elitism. I realize that you don't understand yet. Then again, I don't understand why you grow pubic hair on your face.

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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jun 24 15:56:32 2016, in response to Re: Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by bingbong on Fri Jun 24 15:41:03 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
This is just wishful thinking on your part.

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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jun 24 15:58:14 2016, in response to Re: Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by R2Chinatown on Fri Jun 24 15:45:27 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
That's the problem. Elitism works. The people are fucking idiots.

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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by R2ChinaTown on Fri Jun 24 16:05:38 2016, in response to Re: Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jun 24 15:58:14 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
I think that you are wrong. The British overwhelmingly wanted their secure borders back. The EU offered no security.

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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jun 24 16:19:16 2016, in response to Re: Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by R2ChinaTown on Fri Jun 24 16:05:38 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
That's the problem. They don't realize the effect this would have on the economy, which is more important than security. Security doesn't put food on the table, free trade does.

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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by bingbong on Fri Jun 24 16:21:39 2016, in response to Re: Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by R2Chinatown on Fri Jun 24 15:45:27 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
You absolutely have me confused with someone else. Maybe even you. Clearly, you need help. Get some.

The British voted against being taken advantage of. That's all. If they think and apply this lesson to themslves, they won't lose Scotland and Northern Ireland as well. Hopefully they will check what the voting pattern was and act accordingly.

You keep proving you have no clue about any of this.

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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by bingbong on Fri Jun 24 16:30:24 2016, in response to Re: Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jun 24 15:56:32 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
It's sincere observation.

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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jun 24 16:45:21 2016, in response to Re: Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by bingbong on Fri Jun 24 16:30:24 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
I disagree.

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Re: And ... Cameron hits the silk

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 24 17:21:43 2016, in response to Re: And ... Cameron hits the silk, posted by JayZeeBMT on Fri Jun 24 10:45:37 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
They're going to have a lot of cleaning up to do. And Boris Johnson? Yipe. Looks like they went full Trump over there.

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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri Jun 24 17:40:05 2016, in response to Re: Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jun 24 15:56:32 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Yep.

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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by Easy on Fri Jun 24 20:02:13 2016, in response to Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jun 24 01:54:57 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
I'm at a loss to understand why so many Americans are so emotionally invested in this. Especially those Americans that wanted them to stay. I think they'll be fine. Or maybe they'll be worse. I really don't care all that much either way.

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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by Easy on Fri Jun 24 20:02:13 2016, in response to Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jun 24 01:54:57 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
I'm at a loss to understand why so many Americans are so emotionally invested in this. Especially those Americans that wanted them to stay. I think they'll be fine. Or maybe they'll be worse. I really don't care all that much either way.

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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by 3-9 on Fri Jun 24 20:14:04 2016, in response to Re: Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by Easy on Fri Jun 24 20:02:13 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Because Great Britain is a really close, primarily English-speaking ally, and though we revolted against it, it's still considered a parent of sorts.

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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Fri Jun 24 20:46:32 2016, in response to Re: Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by Easy on Fri Jun 24 20:02:13 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
iawtp

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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jun 24 21:23:38 2016, in response to Re: Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by 3-9 on Fri Jun 24 20:14:04 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
That's not why.

Because of the interconnectivity of world trade, what affects Europe affects America.

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Re: And ... Cameron hits the silk

Posted by Express Rider on Fri Jun 24 21:30:37 2016, in response to And ... Cameron hits the silk, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 24 03:40:46 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
It will be interesting to take a "wait and see" attitude, and see what happens in 12 - 15 months time.

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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by The Silence on Fri Jun 24 21:56:17 2016, in response to Re: Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by 3-9 on Fri Jun 24 15:39:20 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Budgets, my good man. Those CGI wormholes weren't cheap in 1995, let alone all the other effect work.

(and the episode in question was #5)



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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by AlM on Fri Jun 24 22:11:27 2016, in response to Re: Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by 3-9 on Fri Jun 24 15:39:20 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
It might even would have happened before the 20th century, but the US would be smaller and probably not a superpower (other chunks of North America would probably have stayed in other countries' hands, not willing to sell to Britain).

France really needed the money in 1803. If they had tried to hold on to Louisiana it could have been very expensive for them. By 1815 it would have been British anyway. Napoleon would have probably gone down to defeat sooner if in addition to the Russians and the Brits he also had to fight a holding action against the British North American colonists.

And Spain wouldn't have been any more able to hold on to Mexico, or Mexico to its northern reaches. Of course, the southern British colonies might not have taken kindly to Britain abolishing slavery in 1833.

The British North America Act of 1867 might have created a really huge country.



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Re: And … Cameron hits the silk

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jun 24 23:14:10 2016, in response to And ... Cameron hits the silk, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 24 03:40:46 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
By doing this, he shows he was under Merkel's thumb the whole time.

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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by DAND124 on Fri Jun 24 23:20:40 2016, in response to Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jun 24 01:54:57 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d



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Re: And … Cameron hits the silk

Posted by LuchAAA on Fri Jun 24 23:31:48 2016, in response to Re: And … Cameron hits the silk, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jun 24 23:14:10 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
You have been trolled for years about EU

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Re: And ... Cameron hits the silk

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 24 23:57:17 2016, in response to Re: And ... Cameron hits the silk, posted by Express Rider on Fri Jun 24 21:30:37 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
The piranha are already circling. :)

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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by kew gardens teleport on Sat Jun 25 06:17:19 2016, in response to Re: Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jun 24 07:17:25 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
the western world may be moving to conservatism once again.

Just like in the 1930s.


Conservatives like FDR, Ramsay MacDonald, and that peculiar German Socialist fellow?

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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by kew gardens teleport on Sat Jun 25 06:28:15 2016, in response to Re: Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by R2Chinatown on Fri Jun 24 15:45:27 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Barack Obama and Silly Hilly came out against leaving.

No, the one who played worst in Britain was IRA-sympathizer John Kerry. Goodness knows what Obama was thinking when he appointed him, let alone sending him to preach sermons at the British. It would be like sending someone who obstructed the extradition of Al-Qaeda murderers because their acts were "political" to the USA to tell Americans how to vote – instant boost for the other side.

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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by kew gardens teleport on Sat Jun 25 06:34:36 2016, in response to Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jun 24 01:54:57 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
In Scotland and Northern Ireland, by contrast, there was a strong pro-European feeling that has only increased tensions within the United Kingdom itself.

That's a misreading of Northern Ireland. What happened was that the Nationalist community used Remain as a sectarian proxy issue to stick two fingers up to the British, whilst the Unionist community had a more typical split, with the DUP's (the largest of the Unionist parties) strongest areas being strongly Leave and the DUP's weakest areas having a bare majority for Remain.

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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by AlM on Sat Jun 25 06:36:53 2016, in response to Re: Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by kew gardens teleport on Sat Jun 25 06:34:36 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Ah, that explains why the heavily Catholic areas like West Belfast and the border regions were so pro-Leave, while East Belfast was around 50/50.



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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by SMAZ on Sat Jun 25 09:39:17 2016, in response to Re: Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by R2Chinatown on Fri Jun 24 15:45:27 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Britain has rejected the worldism of the left.

Yeah, leftists like Angela Merkel and David Cameron.

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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by SMAZ on Sat Jun 25 09:41:14 2016, in response to Re: Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by kew gardens teleport on Sat Jun 25 06:28:15 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Northern Ireland voted to Remain.



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Re: Britain votes to leave the EU

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jun 25 09:42:56 2016, in response to Re: Britain votes to leave the EU, posted by kew gardens teleport on Sat Jun 25 06:17:19 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
How was FDR conservative?

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