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| Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary (1368405) | |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by R2Chinatown on Tue May 24 11:00:35 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by bingbong on Tue May 24 09:59:15 2016. Nonsense!!! |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue May 24 11:02:57 2016, in response to Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by SLRT on Mon May 23 12:53:01 2016. False dilemma. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue May 24 11:34:00 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by R2Chinatown on Tue May 24 11:00:35 2016. Out of you, one hundred percent of the time. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue May 24 12:49:09 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by bingbong on Tue May 24 09:04:50 2016. You don't have to tell me about weaknesses and problems in ACA. They're real. However, that by no means alone is reason to throw it out. Going back to nothing like the Donald Trump republicans propose endangers millions.Single payer is not going back to nothing, as the Clintons have claimed. If you look at the subject title, there are just two presidential candidates mentioned and neither is a Republican. Raising the specter of Trump/Republicans would be germane, only if a Sanders nomination were more likely to result in a Trump victory. All the polls indicate that a Clinton nomination is more likely to cause that result. It needs a lot of work, and that public option phase in that Hillary Clinton has proposed. The excessive costs I described are due to having a multiplicity of electronic health record standards due to too many players in the game. It's difficult to see how this situation would be improved by adding yet another player. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue May 24 14:16:37 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue May 24 12:49:09 2016. Lulz. The polls do not say a thing about what would actually happen ina campaign. Sanders has gotten kid-glove treatment since he wasn't going to be the candidate (fom trumps pov) and from Hillary's POV to not divide the party irrevocably.Lots of analysts have had a look at what might have been. Hillary has been through a lifetime of scrutiny. She's past all that. That is her floor. Sanders has not. Nobody's bothered as yet. That scrutiny is his ceiling. He would be crushed by it. (Same can be said for trump, who apparently doesn't know or get that there's plenty of stuff yet to come his way) |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue May 24 16:15:26 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by AlM on Tue May 24 08:14:56 2016. The Republicans had an absurd delegate allocation system.That was actually helping Cruz, not Trump. Especially in the caucus States. Had the GOP had the same rules as the DNC, Trump would have still won handily. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by AlM on Tue May 24 16:17:53 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by SMAZ on Tue May 24 16:15:26 2016. Had the GOP had the same rules as the DNC, Trump would have still won handily.No. He'd be on track to go into the convention with 40% of the delegates. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue May 24 16:43:33 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by AlM on Tue May 24 16:17:53 2016. Are you sure?The DNC rules have a corrected proportional. I think they have a 15% cutoff for delegate allocation. Of course it didn't matter in a two-person race where the loser always exceeded that minimum threshold. In most RNC races, Kasich never achieved that. It would have been mainly Trump and Cruz racking up delegates. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by AlM on Tue May 24 16:47:13 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by SMAZ on Tue May 24 16:43:33 2016. It would have been mainly Trump and Cruz racking up delegates.And Cruz would have had far more than he got this way, and Rubio and Kasich (Ohio) would have held the balance. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue May 24 16:59:14 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by AlM on Tue May 24 16:47:13 2016. I guess.Anyway check this out |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 24 17:42:51 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 24 07:22:36 2016. More like a "derp field" ... |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 24 17:49:06 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue May 24 08:54:24 2016. Obama was horribly disappointing for caving even before he began wheeling and dealing. But Sanders would have just been completely ignored. Likability doesn't enter into the equation unless you're as ruthless as LBJ. Bernie is no LBJ. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by FtgreeneG on Tue May 24 17:51:31 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 24 07:22:36 2016. The fact that the Republicans had such a deep field and the last republicsns left standing were Cruz and Trump is more an indictment of republican voters. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue May 24 19:53:47 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by FtgreeneG on Tue May 24 17:51:31 2016. Did you hear about young boy shot in Houston? #threadworthy |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue May 24 19:59:04 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue May 24 04:43:47 2016. iawtp |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue May 24 22:05:48 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon May 23 18:28:37 2016. Meh, my thought of that is this: My vote is basically going to be anti-establishment. So if the (likely) outcome of Hillary (D) comes to pass and there is no Independent route to vote for Sanders, Trump might gets it :). Or a third party. Funny thing is I know I am not alone for this unorthodox "if-then" arrangement, an informal poll of friends and family has revealed 2 others planning to go that route. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 24 22:13:16 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue May 24 22:05:48 2016. Yep. And that poster is REALLY what the issue is, and why I'm always ragging on republicans. But I do have a major problem with putting a raging, loose cannon lunatic in the White House. And like most, I really wish we had other choices. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue May 24 22:14:13 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 24 17:49:06 2016. But Sanders would have just been completely ignored.You don't ignore sitting presidents. The power goes with the office. Likability doesn't enter into the equation unless you're as ruthless as LBJ. LBJ proved that power goes with the office during his tenure as Vice-President. Zero power, zero influence. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 24 22:24:44 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue May 24 22:14:13 2016. You don't ignore sitting presidents.The power goes with the office. Would you like to explain what happened to this guy then?  LBJ proved that power goes with the office during his tenure as Vice-President. Zero power, zero influence. Did you know that LBJ was a democrat and so was the congress? What LBJ had as titular party head was long dossiers on everybody and the balls to use it. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by Express Rider on Tue May 24 22:28:31 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 24 22:24:44 2016. have you ever read Caro's LBJ bio? |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by Express Rider on Tue May 24 22:29:44 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by AlM on Mon May 23 13:11:20 2016. (not me)?You've been reading Family Circus cartoons lately? :) |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 24 22:31:38 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by Express Rider on Tue May 24 22:28:31 2016. Actually I haven't, I got my education on LBJ when I got sent to DC by WBAI from Sander Vanocur and Helen Thomas, two true authorities. :) |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by Express Rider on Tue May 24 22:31:43 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon May 23 18:28:37 2016. iawtp |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue May 24 22:37:55 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue May 24 22:05:48 2016. If trump was rational and reasonable, two traits unseen in republicans since the seventies, then that strategy might be okay. Although it brought us eight years of war, economic stagnation followed by collapse and a shaply divided society where 20% or so wish to impose their dogma on everyone.With this one, the threat of potential global thermonuclear war is real and apparent. Way too dangerous to risk. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue May 24 22:45:42 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon May 23 15:31:09 2016. I wonder how the voter turnout will be. With many folks out there saying that they dislike either one, how many voters will just stay home. I know the cleche goes "If you don't vote, don't bitch", but so many people are bitchin before voting. This is the worst options in a general election I've seen in a long time. Donald is in way over his head & Hillary has just too much baggage. Simply put, both of them suck.UGH...Decisions...decisions. I'll just go into the booth ,pinch my nose & vote for...someone. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue May 24 22:46:38 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by bingbong on Tue May 24 14:16:37 2016. Clinton needs to rationalize her decline from overwhelming favorite to even with Sanders. The unacceptable reason is her being a lousy campaigner whose message is out of step with the what the public wants.That's why the narrative regarding the preferential treatment given Sanders has surfaced. Sanders has been a national office holder for 25 years. He has been searched for dirt for that entire time by both Democrats and Republicans. Vermont is a relatively cheap state to run an election. If either the Republicans or Democrats had dirt on him, they would have used it long ago. O'Malley received even more preferential treatment than Sanders. His campaign went nowhere. Those who believe the reason for Sanders'popularity is the preferential treatment accorded him need to explain why his candidacy took off whereas O'Malley's did not. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by R2Chinatown on Tue May 24 22:48:13 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 24 22:31:38 2016. LOL - Open the umbrellas |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 24 22:55:29 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue May 24 22:45:42 2016. Despite the need for media to have something to fill their worthless airtime, I wouldn't worry about ANY of this shit until well after Labor Day. Even bothering with any of it now is a fool's errand. The really big mud and surprises come in October. :) |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue May 24 23:08:25 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 24 22:24:44 2016. Did you know that LBJ was a democrat and so was the congress?The Congress was Democratic in name only. Congressional power was held by a coalition of conservative southern Democrats and conservative Republicans. This coalition maintained power since the 1944 election. What LBJ had as titular party head was long dossiers on everybody and the balls to use it. Johnson was the ranking Senate Democrat from 1953 to 1961 (during the Eisenhower administration). He did not use his dossier to hijack Eisenhower's agenda because real power resided in the White House. Johnson had enough sense not to try. The real power still resided in the White House, when Johnson was exiled into the Vice-Presidency. For all his balls and dossiers, he was seldom heard from. Johnson did not even have enough power to settle a territorial political dispute within the Texas Democratic Party. That was the reason for Kennedy's visit in November 1963 - to settle a political squabble that Johnson did not have the power to resolve. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 24 23:13:44 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by R2Chinatown on Tue May 24 22:48:13 2016. He shoots ... he scores. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 24 23:26:24 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue May 24 23:08:25 2016. You might not be aware that during the Eisenhower administration, Johnson and Ike made a deal to pave Texas with that interstate money. Texas ended up getting the Lion's share of that allocation even though the population at the time didn't warrant it. Johnson was a quiet deal maker unless he needed to squeeze some balls.As to JFK's political re-election trip to Texas, you might find this interesting. I was aware of that, as well as Adlai Stevenson being roughed up on a visit there earlier. Kennedy himself was in no position to overcome Texas politics or make any deals - HE was who they were after in the first place. http://www.pophistorydig.com/topics/tag/jfk-texas-trip-1963/ |
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Posted by SMAZ on Wed May 25 01:48:45 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue May 24 23:08:25 2016. He did not use his dossier to hijack Eisenhower's agenda because real power resided in the White House. Johnson had enough sense not to try.Their agendas dovetailed well with one another. Neither had to compromise a whole lot to reach agreements. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed May 25 09:58:20 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 24 23:26:24 2016. You might not be aware that during the Eisenhower administration, Johnson and Ike made a deal to pave Texas with that interstate moneySam Rayburn was also influential. Getting back on point. There was a liberal wing of the Texas Democratic Party led by Senator Ralph Yarborough. The conservative wing was led by Governor John Connally. They were so split that Republican John Tower was elected to LBJ's senate seat. Kennedy sought to ensure that the party would be united for the 1964 election. That should have been Johnson's job. The Vice-Presidency made Johnson so weak, that he could not settle the squabble. All Johnson's leadership talents could not overcome the office. He did not display them until he became President. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed May 25 10:03:57 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by SMAZ on Wed May 25 01:48:45 2016. Their agendas dovetailed well with one another.Johnson did not push his Great Society agenda on Eisenhower. He did not even do it after the 1958 election, which gave the Democrats a veto proof majority. |
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Posted by SMAZ on Wed May 25 16:58:17 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed May 25 10:03:57 2016. The was no Great Society agenda in the late 50's.Congress got Ike to sign legislation expanding Social Security, increasing housing block grants to cities, passing the Civil Rights of 1957 and other progressive stuff. More like the partial completion of Truman's Fair Deal than anything. |
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