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| Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote (1278937) | |
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| (1279177) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Apr 6 14:33:39 2015, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by AlM on Mon Apr 6 14:28:29 2015. AlM,you were speaking in general terms. I know how you work. How you think. How you vote. Stop playing games. |
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| (1279178) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 6 14:36:28 2015, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Apr 6 14:33:39 2015. No, he was not speaking in "general terms." He provided the first argument against this proposal that I find credible. I will now use it myself. |
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| (1279179) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Apr 6 14:47:01 2015, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 6 14:36:28 2015. presenting an argument does not mean you support it.He's just looking at this from another angle. He presents the argument because he'd like to shoot it down at some point. |
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| (1279182) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Apr 6 14:53:31 2015, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Apr 6 14:47:01 2015. OK, then bookmark this and show me in 6 months where I've supported non-citizen voting. :) |
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| (1279184) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 6 14:57:00 2015, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Apr 6 14:47:01 2015. LOL! You have it all mixed up. I was the one who argued for something I disagreed with in the interest of getting someone to give me an argument against it that I could use. |
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| (1279218) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Apr 6 16:46:01 2015, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Apr 6 13:18:27 2015. It already is, just not in name.The pro-disenfranchisers will not be happy when they see they've disenfranchised themselves as well. It's why Lenin reputedly called them "useful idiots". |
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| (1279257) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Apr 7 01:06:15 2015, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Apr 6 14:22:36 2015. I agree with what AlM said. |
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| (1279261) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Apr 7 02:31:38 2015, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by SMAZ on Tue Apr 7 01:06:15 2015. I agree with what AlM said.You're an AlMist. |
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| (1279262) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Tue Apr 7 02:39:42 2015, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Apr 7 02:31:38 2015. An Aimist? |
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| (1279264) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Tue Apr 7 02:43:16 2015, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Apr 7 02:31:38 2015. An Aimist? |
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| (1279268) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Apr 7 03:05:26 2015, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by chicagomotorman on Tue Apr 7 02:43:16 2015. 2xpost |
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| (1279292) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 7 09:23:02 2015, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 6 11:06:14 2015. BUMP |
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| (1279294) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Apr 7 09:24:32 2015, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 7 09:23:02 2015. You'd think a Tory Loyalist like him would know that. |
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| (1279300) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 7 10:30:23 2015, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 6 10:03:23 2015. Whether or not the Constitution states that the right to vote is a right conferred only on citizens (it doesn't)Tenth Amendment, asshole. |
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| (1279303) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Apr 7 10:45:02 2015, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 7 10:30:23 2015. Whether or not the Constitution states that the right to vote is a right conferred only on citizens (it doesn't)... Tenth Amendment, asshole. The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. So the power to grant non-citizens the right to vote is reserved to the States and the people. So if the state of NY wants to allow its subsidiary, NYC, to permit non-citizens to vote in municipal elections, it can do so. |
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| (1279304) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 7 10:56:19 2015, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by AlM on Tue Apr 7 10:45:02 2015. Ha ha! This proves he's never actually read the amendment. |
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| (1408799) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Dec 4 14:36:28 2016, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by Dave on Mon Apr 6 10:28:25 2015. Just like the Electoral College dilutes the votes of the majority of Americans in favor of rural supremacy. |
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| (1408800) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Dec 4 14:38:05 2016, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 7 09:23:02 2015. NECROBUMP |
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| (1408801) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun Dec 4 14:45:23 2016, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Dec 4 14:38:05 2016. Why? |
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| (1408802) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Dec 4 14:51:25 2016, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by SLRT on Sun Dec 4 14:45:23 2016. I thought it would fit in with my recent “anti-American” necropostings but I still don’t think that non-citizens should vote. |
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| (1408806) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Dec 4 17:11:26 2016, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Dec 4 14:51:25 2016. I still don’t think that non-citizens should voteIAWTP. But it's outrageous when states try to prevent citizens from voting under the guise of preventing non-citizens from voting. For people who can't demonstrate citizenship (and they are few and far between - most people born here have a birth certificate and those not born here have citizenship papers), an affadavit under penalty of perjury from the voter and a witness will suffice to scare off 99.99% of all non-citizens who would think of cheating. There is no reason anyone with a birth certificate should need to provide a photo ID, when that doesn't improve the chances of them being a citizen. |
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| (1408807) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun Dec 4 17:36:58 2016, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by AlM on Sun Dec 4 17:11:26 2016. So you think that people need to produce a birth certificate to vote? |
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| (1408808) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 4 17:44:51 2016, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Dec 4 14:51:25 2016. I still don’t think that non-citizens should voteWell, you're right. |
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| (1408811) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Dec 4 17:50:43 2016, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by SLRT on Sun Dec 4 17:36:58 2016. I am talking about registering to vote, not voting each time. A state has a right to reasonable evidence that a person is actually eligible to vote. |
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| (1408812) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun Dec 4 17:55:18 2016, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by AlM on Sun Dec 4 17:50:43 2016. And when a person shows up to vote what is reasonable proof that the person is eligible to vote? |
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| (1408813) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Dec 4 17:56:12 2016, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by AlM on Sun Dec 4 17:11:26 2016. most people born here have a birth certificateThat didn't do Obama a lot of good in the eyes of the President-Elect. |
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| (1408815) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Dec 4 18:01:34 2016, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Dec 4 17:56:12 2016. True, but the State of Hawaii did allow him to vote. :) |
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| (1408816) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Dec 4 18:04:56 2016, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by SLRT on Sun Dec 4 17:55:18 2016. There are lots of possibilities. When I show up in NY, they have my signature right in front of them on their reference card. How many people are going to have the nerve to sign someone else's name? And they would have to be signing the name of someone who they know isn't going to vote, because if they show up and someone has voted in their place they will make a stink.It's the same level of protection as I have on my checking account. If the level of illegal voters is the same as the level of professional check forgers we don't have much to worry about. |
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| (1408817) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Dec 4 18:13:17 2016, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by SLRT on Sun Dec 4 17:55:18 2016. It could simply be "photo ID or the voter registration card that was mailed when registering". People who really can't afford an ID (poppycock, but let's pretend) will just have to keep the card in a safe place. |
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| (1408818) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Dec 4 18:22:42 2016, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Dec 4 18:13:17 2016. People who really can't afford an ID (poppycock, but let's pretend)Sorry, the 24th Amendment to the Constitution isn't poppycock even if the cost is $1. |
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| (1408819) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Dec 4 18:26:03 2016, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by AlM on Sun Dec 4 18:22:42 2016. That's why I offered the "free" alternative of bringing the registration card. Try and read to the end of the post, please. |
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| (1408820) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Dec 4 18:45:06 2016, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by AlM on Sun Dec 4 18:01:34 2016. I don’t think he’s ever voted in Hawaii. |
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| (1408822) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Dec 4 18:56:20 2016, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Dec 4 18:26:03 2016. Your offering of an alternative, which I saw, doesn't make the right to vote for free poppycock. And the point is that many states don't allow what you are proposing. |
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| (1408837) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by ntrainride on Sun Dec 4 21:12:28 2016, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Apr 6 10:52:49 2015. it seems almost like insanity. of fucking course! voting rights are only for citizens of their respective countries. how could it be any other way? also, how could they want it any other way? the stupidity of championing non-citizen voting privileges defies description. might as well champion the rights of men to get pregnant.unbelievable. |
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| (1408850) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by ntrainride on Sun Dec 4 22:41:43 2016, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by AlM on Mon Apr 6 11:57:30 2015. why would any citizen want a non-citizen be able to vote? some things can't be avoided. either you're freekin' born here or you go through the procedures to become a citizen...and win your citizenship. otherwise, no franchise for you. |
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| (1408852) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by ntrainride on Sun Dec 4 23:07:10 2016, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by SMAZ on Sun Apr 5 21:20:06 2015. my peeps left europe way back when. who cares how they think? live their lives? screw the european union. |
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| (1408878) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Dec 5 10:49:38 2016, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by SMAZ on Sun Apr 5 21:20:06 2015. Good for you. So go move there if it's so wonderful. |
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| (1408879) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Dec 5 10:52:55 2016, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Dec 5 10:49:38 2016. How is this a valid response to his simple statement of fact? And how is it a valid response if he actually expressed an opinion in favor of the proposal? |
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| (1408880) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Dec 5 10:54:23 2016, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Dec 5 10:52:55 2016. Because what they do, did, or will do there has nothing to do with what we should do here. |
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Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Dec 5 10:57:52 2016, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Dec 5 10:49:38 2016. He'll move as soon as the celebrities move to Canada, lol. |
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| (1408882) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Dec 5 10:58:28 2016, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Dec 5 10:52:55 2016. "So go move there if you don't like it here" is the official party line response to any statement of the form "I think other people have a useful alternate view on how to handle this issue."I don't agree with SMAZ's view but I acknowledge he has made a valid point that other countries do it differently and their world hasn't come to an end. |
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| (1408885) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Dec 5 11:06:59 2016, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Dec 5 10:54:23 2016. It is relevant because it shows that there's a precedent for non-citizen voting. You also ignored his claim about the 1800s. |
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Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Dec 5 11:07:31 2016, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Dec 5 11:06:59 2016. It doesn't matter what they do in their countries. |
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| (1408888) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Dec 5 11:08:10 2016, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by AlM on Mon Dec 5 10:58:28 2016. And it's irrelevant what they do in their countries. It has nothing to do with us. |
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Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Dec 5 11:08:14 2016, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by AlM on Mon Dec 5 10:58:28 2016. He didn't express a view in that post. |
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| (1408890) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Dec 5 11:08:36 2016, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Dec 5 11:08:10 2016. That is such bullshit. |
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| (1408891) | |
Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Dec 5 11:09:22 2016, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Dec 5 11:07:31 2016. Yes, it is. |
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Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Dec 5 11:10:26 2016, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Dec 5 11:08:10 2016. Examples of how other countries do things has plenty to do with us. They are useful examples even if we choose to ignore them.Take a look at the Federalist Papers. The authors spent a huge amount of time analyzing how other countries did things, and what was good about it and what was bad. |
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Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Dec 5 11:11:24 2016, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Dec 5 11:08:14 2016. I believe he has expressed the view in the past that giving non-resident aliens the right to vote in local elections would not necessarily be a bad thing. |
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Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Dec 5 11:14:12 2016, in response to Re: NYC Council planning to give legal aliens (non-citizens) the right to vote, posted by AlM on Mon Dec 5 11:11:24 2016. FALSE |
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