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| Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG (1274496) | |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Mar 24 22:28:16 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG, posted by chicagomotorman on Tue Mar 24 22:27:39 2015. zzzzzz |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Mar 24 22:28:29 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG, posted by chicagomotorman on Tue Mar 24 22:27:45 2015. ? |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Tue Mar 24 22:32:23 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Mar 24 22:28:29 2015. Test |
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| (1274863) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Mar 24 22:32:48 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG, posted by chicagomotorman on Tue Mar 24 22:32:23 2015. testing |
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| (1274866) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONGc |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Mar 24 22:51:42 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONGc, posted by mtk52983 on Tue Mar 24 21:22:15 2015. 1) Not if you don't have the appropriate mens reaAre you seriously claiming that you can have a murder charge without a death? Or that a prosecutor trying to prove a murder charge wouldn't start by showing that a death occurred? 2) if it is not admissible the jury can't hear it OTChat is not a jury. 3) Why am I not surprised you continue to misstate the law. Ouch. Dunning-Kruger again. Self-defense has to be affirmatively proven. If you can't prove your life was being threatened by the person you shot, then you are guilty of murder. Zimmerman admitted that he was following Martin, who was trying to escape. That makes him the aggressor. The aggressor cannot claim self-defense by definition. Since Zimmerman admitted he killed Martin and admitted that he was the aggressor, he is guilty of murder. What happened before is not relevant except to refute the reasonableness of Zimmerman's belief... Yes, and since "what happened before" proves that Zimmerman was the aggressor, it disproves his claim of self-defense. ... but based on the applicable jury charge that isn't enough to meet Prosecution's burden... What burden? Zimmerman claimed self-defense. That's an affirmative defense. The burden of proof is on him to prove he was being threatened; since he admitted to being the aggressor, he obviously did not. once Zimmerman made a prima facie case for being entitled to claim the affirmative defense That doesn't actually mean anything. You're just spewing legal terms without knowing what they mean. If you were trying to claim that Zimmerman made a prima facie case of self-defense, then you're wrong. Zimmerman admitted to being the aggressor; his claim of self-defense basically relied on him saying: "Black kids are crazy, right, wink wink, nullify nullify." |
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| (1274903) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Mar 25 02:53:22 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONGc, posted by Nilet on Tue Mar 24 22:51:42 2015. IAWTP |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Wed Mar 25 05:03:36 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONGc, posted by Nilet on Tue Mar 24 22:51:42 2015. First, just having a death is insufficient if you do not also have the appropriate mens rea. Second, while OTChat is not a jury, I will not blame the actual jury because of items that would not properly be before it. Finally, even an aggressor can claim self defense. The legal question is the reasonableness of the belief as his head was being bashed into the pavement, a scenario we have seen kill people before. That Zimmerman may have been following Martin although told not to is not sufficient to disprove because it does not tell about his state of mind when he acted in self defense. For more on the burdens of proof this LINK explains Florida law on the subject |
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| (1274912) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Mar 25 05:33:04 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG, posted by mtk52983 on Wed Mar 25 05:03:36 2015. First, just having a death is insufficient if you do not also have the appropriate mens rea.No, but it is necessary. I never claimed that having a death was sufficient to prove murder; just that if you are trying to demonstrate murder, you should probably start by showing that a death occurred. Betting is now open as to whether you actually understand what "mens rea" means. Second, while OTChat is not a jury, I will not blame the actual jury because of items that would not properly be before it. Considering that any jury will see only a highly edited version of the events and the prosecutor seemed to be intentionally trying to botch the case, it's probably not fair to blame the jury entirely. That said, this is not a jury. If I film myself murdering someone while shouting that I have no justification for doing so, and the police discover this recording through an illegal search, then it is inadmissible in court and will never be seen by a jury. That does not mean I should expect you to ignore it here. Finally, even an aggressor can claim self defense. Um, no. Self-defense is a claim of justification based on your need to defend yourself from an attacker. It doesn't apply if you are the attacker. The legal question is the reasonableness of the belief as his head was being bashed into the pavement... Are you claiming Martin attacked him? OK, here's a quick primer on the law. When an armed maniac is hunting you and has thwarted any attempt you have made to avoid him, once a confrontation is inevitable you have a right to defend yourself. If you are an armed maniac and you hunt down an innocent kid, thwart his every effort to escape, and make a confrontation unavoidable, you cannot claim self-defense. Period. Zimmerman admitted that he attacked Martin first. You cannot claim self-defense when you attack first. That's not even Criminal Law 101— that's more like Remedial Duh. ...a scenario we have seen kill people before. It doesn't matter. If you attack someone and they attempt to defend themselves, you cannot claim self-defense, no matter how theoretically they may be potentially threatening your life as they attempt to save theirs. That Zimmerman may have been following Martin although told not to is not sufficient to disprove because it does not tell about his state of mind when he acted in self defense. <voice="lawyer">Objection! Assumes facts not in evidence!</voice> The fact that Zimmerman was pursuing Martin proves his claim of "self-defense" is baseless because it proves he was the aggressor. You cannot claim self-defense if you are actively hunting someone down while they try to escape from you. I'm not sure why you think his "state of mind" is relevant, because it isn't— the only relevant facts are (1) Zimmerman killed Martin, and (2) Zimmerman was the aggressor; his actions were unprovoked. For more on the burdens of proof this LINK explains Florida law on the subject Your link confirms what I said— that self-defense requires affirmative proof, that an aggressor cannot claim self-defense, and that Zimmerman's "state of mind" is irrelevant. The simple fact is, if Martin were white then Zimmerman would be in prison for murder right now. |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is White |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Mar 25 05:38:39 2015, in response to George Zimmerman Is Right, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Tue Mar 24 11:46:22 2015. Your source is...18884mydivorce.com, then...? Sounds totally legit. |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Wed Mar 25 05:43:42 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG, posted by Nilet on Wed Mar 25 05:33:04 2015. If Martin were white Zimmerman wouldn't have failed him |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Mar 25 05:52:35 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG, posted by mtk52983 on Wed Mar 25 05:43:42 2015. What? |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Wed Mar 25 06:29:41 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG, posted by Nilet on Wed Mar 25 05:52:35 2015. That should have said wouldn't have FOLLOWED by him. I missed that my device auto corrected what I wrote |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Wed Mar 25 06:30:01 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG, posted by Nilet on Wed Mar 25 05:52:35 2015. That should have said wouldn't have FOLLOWED him. I missed that my device auto corrected what I wrote |
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| (1274926) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Mar 25 06:42:43 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG, posted by mtk52983 on Wed Mar 25 06:29:41 2015. Ah. Well that may well be true. |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Wed Mar 25 07:25:42 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG, posted by mtk52983 on Wed Mar 25 05:43:42 2015. Don't give up!!!!!! |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG |
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Posted by Dave on Wed Mar 25 07:31:50 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Mar 24 22:03:30 2015. Because it's not made up. It was a screenshot made from your site before you took it down. |
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| (1274932) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Mar 25 07:49:37 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG, posted by Dave on Wed Mar 25 07:31:50 2015. Not sure what is so in need of being denied here. Yes, it's an exaggeration, since he is still alive. But it might be in response to a genuine injustice for all we know. |
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| (1274937) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Is White |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Wed Mar 25 09:52:38 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is White, posted by Nilet on Wed Mar 25 05:38:39 2015. FUCK YOU |
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| (1274945) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Is Right |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Mar 25 11:00:03 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is White, posted by Nilet on Wed Mar 25 05:38:39 2015. Thanks for coming out as bigoted—again. |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is Right |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Wed Mar 25 11:34:47 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is Right, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Mar 25 11:00:03 2015. He is a WUT. |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is Right |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 25 13:31:58 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is Right, posted by chicagomotorman on Wed Mar 25 11:34:47 2015. No, he's not. People who are proud of being white want you and Nilet dead. |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is Right |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Wed Mar 25 13:52:30 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is Right, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 25 13:31:58 2015. People who are proud of being white want you and Nilet dead.If you have any literature to this effect, especially something easy to read and simple to understand, such as a graphic novel, comic book, or my-first-reader, please pass it along and I will personally hand it to chicagomotorman when we meet up this summer. Thank you for your cooperation and understanding. |
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| (1274965) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Mar 25 14:00:50 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG, posted by mtk52983 on Wed Mar 25 05:43:42 2015. ?? |
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| (1274967) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Mar 25 14:07:21 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG, posted by Dave on Wed Mar 25 07:31:50 2015. it is a total fake you made upa total phoney |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Mar 25 14:07:26 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG, posted by Dave on Wed Mar 25 07:31:50 2015. it is a total fake you made upa total phoney |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is Right |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Wed Mar 25 14:16:23 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is Right, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 25 13:31:58 2015. So it's ok to be proud to be black but not white? |
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| (1274975) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Is Right |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Mar 25 14:20:56 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is Right, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Wed Mar 25 14:16:23 2015. The left (Nazis, fascists, even commies) has tainted phrases such as "white pride". It will be perpetually associated with such segments, which are typically openly antisemitic.Of course, they are not as honest about the phrase "black pride" having similar connotations in a great number of contexts—more often than acknowledged. |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Wed Mar 25 14:22:13 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Mar 24 22:00:01 2015. no he didn't |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Mar 25 14:32:24 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG, posted by terRAPIN station on Wed Mar 25 14:22:13 2015. yes he did ! |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Wed Mar 25 14:41:07 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Mar 25 14:32:24 2015. No he didn't. I went to the Yahoo Groups website and saw the group that you had formed years earlier, way before you ever accused him of creating it. |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Mar 25 14:44:23 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG, posted by terRAPIN station on Wed Mar 25 14:41:07 2015. yes he didhe took it from the facebook site i have and made it all up you were fooled |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Wed Mar 25 14:47:37 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Mar 25 14:44:23 2015. No I wasn't fooled. I saw the site way before you ever accused him of making it. You made the site in 2004. |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Mar 25 15:13:03 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG, posted by terRAPIN station on Wed Mar 25 14:47:37 2015. bullshit the yahoo site never exhisted |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG |
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Posted by R2Chinatown on Wed Mar 25 15:16:11 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Mar 25 14:44:23 2015. I really do not believe you, sir. |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Wed Mar 25 15:16:11 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Mar 25 15:13:03 2015. Yes it did. I went there and signed up. Google even cached it. |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is STRONG |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Wed Mar 25 15:17:21 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Mar 24 12:51:05 2015. well, he's not STRONG.I just wanted to troll this thread. thanks for reading this trollpost. |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Mar 25 15:17:24 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG, posted by terRAPIN station on Wed Mar 25 15:16:11 2015. it is not there you and davey from texasss are liars |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Mar 25 15:17:44 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG, posted by R2Chinatown on Wed Mar 25 15:16:11 2015. why ? there is no yahoo site |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Mar 25 15:18:11 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is STRONG, posted by LuchAAA on Wed Mar 25 15:17:21 2015. title corrected |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is Right |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 25 15:19:30 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is Right, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Wed Mar 25 14:16:23 2015. Who said that? |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is Right |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed Mar 25 15:20:18 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is Right, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Mar 25 14:20:56 2015. Nazis and fascists were extreme rightists. Nice try, though. |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG |
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Posted by R2Chinatown on Wed Mar 25 15:20:22 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Mar 25 15:17:44 2015. But too many people have claimed to see it. I have seen a cut & paste of it here. Is that really your wife? |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is Right |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Wed Mar 25 15:26:10 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is Right, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed Mar 25 15:20:18 2015. Nazis and fascists were extreme rightists. Nice try, though.Did they celebrate birthdays? |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Mar 25 15:26:13 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG, posted by R2Chinatown on Wed Mar 25 15:20:22 2015. facebook photo davey from texass took it and made a fake photobucket account |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Mar 25 15:27:32 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG, posted by R2Chinatown on Wed Mar 25 15:20:22 2015. yes we took this shot witm my camera on a timerhttps://www.facebook.com/salaamallah the above is where davey from texass got this shot he took it from there |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is An American Hero |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Wed Mar 25 15:28:51 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is WRONG, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Mar 25 15:18:11 2015. title corrected |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is An American MURDERER |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Mar 25 15:31:30 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is An American Hero, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Wed Mar 25 15:28:51 2015. Re: George Zimmerman Is An American MURDERERTITLE CORRECTED |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is An American MURDERER |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Mar 25 15:33:05 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is An American MURDERER, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Mar 25 15:31:30 2015. this is what happened to trayvon martinyou love this 
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Re: George Zimmerman Is An American Hero |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Mar 25 15:34:42 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is An American Hero, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Wed Mar 25 15:28:51 2015. He's a hero for following a teenager, picking a fight with him, and killing him in self-defense when the kid got the better of the fight?Sounds like idiot to me. If he'd been halfway prudent no one would have gotten hurt. |
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Re: George Zimmerman Is no hero |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Mar 25 15:35:31 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Is An American Hero, posted by AlM on Wed Mar 25 15:34:42 2015. no hero to me |
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