58 percent of Americans want a third political party (1229173) | |
Home > OTChat |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
(1229173) | |
58 percent of Americans want a third political party |
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 26 13:40:08 2014 It'd really be a second party, since the "Pubs" and "Dems" are really the Uniparty.Gallup
|
|
(1229174) | |
Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party |
|
Posted by SLRT on Fri Sep 26 13:47:03 2014, in response to 58 percent of Americans want a third political party, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 26 13:40:08 2014. It is such a fantasy when people look for a "third party."It's one thing to be fed up with the current parties, but it is quite a leap of faith to think that a Third Party will magically be any better and that it is will "represent my true interests." I've run into 3rd party supporters (a particular notion when Ross Perot was around) and found that many of them are simply malcontents who would never be satisfied with any party. |
|
(1229180) | |
Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party |
|
Posted by Nilet on Fri Sep 26 14:20:40 2014, in response to 58 percent of Americans want a third political party, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 26 13:40:08 2014. It'd really be a second party, since the "Pubs" and "Dems" are really the Uniparty.Much like a stopped clock, you have currently issued a rare statement which is perfectly correct, purely by coincidence, for the wrong reasons. Such a system generally favors two parties — a center-right and a center-left party — that have the ability to assemble a winning plurality or majority in districts and states across the country. Generally, yes— if either party pulls away from the center, it loses votes. However, the Republican party took a gamble in pulling to the right, and it paid off— rather than wait at the center and exercise their advantage, the Democrats figured that if they followed the Republicans to the right but remained just left of them, then a larger percentage of the voters would be "closer" to them. After all, it's not like people will vote third-party or write-in or simply stay home having been alienated by a system that cannot ever represent them. Obama and Romney both favour mass surveillance, the torture and murder of US citizens without oversight, and handing billions of dollars of taxpayer money to the already rich, who are given immunity for all their past crimes and given free rein to defraud and steal. But Obama is a bit less sexist— while Romney wants women to be declared legally male property, Obama is merely apathetic and is generally willing to see both sides on the issue of whether women are human. Surely, you will rush to the polls and vote for the lesser evil! Which is why we now have a hard-right party and an extreme-right party— and that is why we need to use procedural trickery to prevent a centrist third party who would easily win the vote from even getting onto the ballot in the first place. |
|
(1229181) | |
Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party |
|
Posted by Nilet on Fri Sep 26 14:26:34 2014, in response to Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party, posted by SLRT on Fri Sep 26 13:47:03 2014. In Presidential races, one can generally find a third party on the ballot. Yet, in a truly stunning example of the Abilene paradox, nobody votes for the third party because everyone assumes the third party has no chance of winning.I'm not sure which third party supporters you're talking about, but if they supported Ross Perot, they're probably not a representative example. While I wouldn't necessarily be satisfied with, say, Bernie Sanders in every respect, I would be downright ecstatic if people like him took control of government. |
|
(1229186) | |
Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party |
|
Posted by SLRT on Fri Sep 26 15:10:23 2014, in response to Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party, posted by Nilet on Fri Sep 26 14:26:34 2014. And how many Americans do you suppose are as Far Left as you and Bernie? |
|
(1229189) | |
Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party |
|
Posted by LuchAAA on Fri Sep 26 15:12:28 2014, in response to Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party, posted by Nilet on Fri Sep 26 14:26:34 2014. Good post. |
|
(1229191) | |
Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party |
|
Posted by bingbong on Fri Sep 26 15:20:49 2014, in response to Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party, posted by SLRT on Fri Sep 26 15:10:23 2014. Enough of the population of Vermont as they keep him elected. |
|
(1229192) | |
Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party |
|
Posted by SLRT on Fri Sep 26 15:24:18 2014, in response to Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party, posted by bingbong on Fri Sep 26 15:20:49 2014. Only 49 states to go. |
|
(1229193) | |
Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party |
|
Posted by bingbong on Fri Sep 26 15:39:05 2014, in response to Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party, posted by SLRT on Fri Sep 26 15:24:18 2014. :-)Agreed! |
|
(1229194) | |
Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party |
|
Posted by mtk52983 on Fri Sep 26 15:43:40 2014, in response to Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party, posted by bingbong on Fri Sep 26 15:39:05 2014. If you want the total destruction of the United States sure. Communism doesn't work |
|
(1229197) | |
Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party |
|
Posted by AlM on Fri Sep 26 16:03:04 2014, in response to Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party, posted by mtk52983 on Fri Sep 26 15:43:40 2014. ???Sanders is not a Communist. |
|
(1229206) | |
Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party |
|
Posted by FtGreeneG on Fri Sep 26 16:37:55 2014, in response to 58 percent of Americans want a third political party, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 26 13:40:08 2014. How about abolish parties all together. Let these politicians actually run on their own original ideas and stand by their own convictions and not be pressured to toe the party line. It would probably even to more to encourage teamwork and compromise in congress based on ideas not political platforms. Actually would give ppl incentive to do research on their canidate with just voting democrat or republican straight down the line. It would also take some power frim these lobbyist. Sound like a win win to me but it would never happen. |
|
(1229233) | |
Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party |
|
Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Fri Sep 26 17:48:38 2014, in response to Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party, posted by LuchAAA on Fri Sep 26 15:12:28 2014. Fuck you. |
|
(1229234) | |
Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party |
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Sep 26 17:54:33 2014, in response to Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party, posted by AlM on Fri Sep 26 16:03:04 2014. Actually, back when he was mayor of Burlington, he did. Primarily because the Socialist party had no presence in Vermont officially at the time. He got elected by a wide margin too. |
|
(1229242) | |
Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party |
|
Posted by Nilet on Fri Sep 26 18:57:37 2014, in response to Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party, posted by SLRT on Fri Sep 26 15:10:23 2014. Probably about 75% of the people with actual beliefs are about as liberal as I am or more— keeping in mind that this excludes the low information voters who cast ballots based on tribal identity or advertising or who they'd rather have a beer with but don't really have any actual political beliefs as such.If you ignore the people who vote based on "facts" that can be trivially demonstrated as objectively false (like white supremacy, or global warming denialism, or the ever-popular "I support giving free money to rich people because I just know I'm going to be rich in ten years!") then it's probably more like 95% at least in the general ballpark. If you could force everyone to listen to the evidence and evaluate it rationally, free from ingrained biases, then it would be roughly 100% give or take a few sociopaths. If you don't believe me, grab any random sampling of Americans and ask them what they prefer— the catch is, you're not allowed to use the common names of laws and policies (like "Obamacare" or "the Affordable Care Act" or "single payer") and you're certainly not allowed to use terms like "liberal" or "conservative" or the names of specific candidates or parties. You're only allowed to describe each policy by its inevitable results if properly implemented. So "single payer" becomes something like "Any person can see any doctor when they get sick, all medical treatments are covered as long as they cost less than $129,000 per year the patient is expected to live afterwards, pretty much all health care is completely free, but it might take a little longer to get a non-urgent appointment and your taxes will be increased by a very small amount. Of each dollar spent on health care, about $0.02 is eaten up by overhead and administration, and health care costs are kept low by the system's efficiency." The ACA becomes something like "Every person is required to have health insurance from a private company. Large employers are required to provide it for full-time employees; everyone else is able to purchase it from a marketplace that organises individuals to receive group discounts on premiums. People with low income will receive a subsidy to offset the cost of the premiums. Insurance companies are required to provide a certain minimum level of coverage, but are otherwise free to choose whether to pay for your health care or not, and there is no limit on the amount you can be required to spend out of pocket. Insurance companies are not permitted to abruptly drop your coverage when you get sick, however they can choose not to cover your treatment unless it falls under the minimum coverage required by law. People who can't afford insurance premiums even with subsidies receive health care through a spotty and generally underfunded government program. Of each dollar spent on health care, about $0.20 is eaten up by overhead and administration and health care costs are kept high both by natural inefficiencies in the system and by deliberate inefficiencies required by law." And the pre-ACA system that today's Republicans are clamouring to return to becomes: "You must pay all of your health care expenses out of pocket. Health insurance is available, and your employer may provide it, but there is no guarantee that they will, nor any guarantee that your insurance will cover anything if you do have it. Of each dollar spent on health care, upwards of $0.50 may be eaten by overhead and administration, and health care costs are kept extremely high by the system's natural inefficiencies." Which would you pick? |
|
(1229250) | |
Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party |
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Sep 26 20:51:20 2014, in response to Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party, posted by FtGreeneG on Fri Sep 26 16:37:55 2014. How would this help? Legislators would still form party-like factions. It's how parties in this country got started. |
|
(1229263) | |
Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party |
|
Posted by FtGreeneG on Fri Sep 26 23:36:41 2014, in response to Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Sep 26 20:51:20 2014. It would help a lot. Of course factions will still be formed but alliances will be formed on specific ideas. For example politician A might have an alliance with politician B, C on getting a bill about healthcare passed a traditionally democrat stance but politican A can also have a alliance with politicians E, F on a bill about military funding a traditionally republican stance. Instead of whats going today with the democrats on one side of the room and republicians on another and only a few willing to cross party lines to work together. |
|
(1229264) | |
Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party |
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Sep 26 23:44:46 2014, in response to Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party, posted by FtGreeneG on Fri Sep 26 23:36:41 2014. I disagree. |
|
(1229268) | |
Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party |
|
Posted by Nilet on Fri Sep 26 23:52:32 2014, in response to Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party, posted by FtGreeneG on Fri Sep 26 23:36:41 2014. The problem isn't that the parties aren't willing to work together— it's that the Republicans refuse to compromise even one aspect of their extremist agenda, the Democrats happily concede to their demands entirely, and the Republicans respond by moving further to the right.If the Democrats moved back to the center, they'd win every election unchallenged for a few years. Then either the Republicans would be hit with a clue and abandon their extremist agenda, or the Republicans would go extinct and the Democratic party would split, creating one party of center-left Warren Democrats and one party of center-right Gillibrand Democrats. |
|
(1229304) | |
Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party |
|
Posted by bingbong on Sat Sep 27 06:53:54 2014, in response to Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party, posted by FtGreeneG on Fri Sep 26 23:36:41 2014. It could work like that but probably wouldn't. People are way too polarized. Started with Nixon running on racism. Reagan didn't help one iota when he announced from Philadelphia, MS and in his next breath embraced the BACs. That pretty much cemented where the lines are a generation ago, it's just gotten worse since.Until the republicans change this is how it's gonna be. |
|
(1229363) | |
Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party |
|
Posted by FtGreeneG on Sat Sep 27 18:01:01 2014, in response to Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party, posted by bingbong on Sat Sep 27 06:53:54 2014. Yeah I know it wouldn't work now. It's bordering on impossible to put the genie back in the bottle :/. The congress' dysfunction is doing this country a great disservice. |
|
(1229364) | |
Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party |
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Sep 27 18:03:13 2014, in response to Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party, posted by FtGreeneG on Sat Sep 27 18:01:01 2014. Not just us, but the rest of the planet too. Can't make ANY foreign policy work when your own are fighting you. :( |
|
(1229365) | |
Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party |
|
Posted by FtGreeneG on Sat Sep 27 18:10:47 2014, in response to Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party, posted by Nilet on Fri Sep 26 23:52:32 2014. Yeah I agree when Obama and the tea party gained popularity in within the republican ranks cooperation went out the window. When Obama tried to work with them he was wasting his time. Which is why I certainly don't blame him for increasing his use of executive orders. |
|
(1229366) | |
Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party |
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Sep 27 18:22:44 2014, in response to Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party, posted by FtGreeneG on Sat Sep 27 18:10:47 2014. The marching cry back when Bush was taking it in the ear was "you've got to respect the President in public because our enemies are watching." Ah well ... knew they never really meant that. |
|
(1235050) | |
Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party |
|
Posted by Dan Lawrence on Mon Oct 20 15:49:55 2014, in response to Re: 58 percent of Americans want a third political party, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Fri Sep 26 17:48:38 2014. NO POINTS FOR YOU TODAY!!!!!!!! If you don't say anything nice, don't say anything!! |
|