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Unarmed |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Sep 1 17:28:07 2014 
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Re: Unarmed |
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Posted by Dave on Mon Sep 1 18:17:10 2014, in response to Unarmed, posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Sep 1 17:28:07 2014. MURDERING NAZI KKK PIG...oh, wait...it was a black cop that was killed.Never mind. LOL! IAWTP. ZZZZzzzzzzzzzz................. ---Salaam |
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Re: Unarmed |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Sep 2 20:36:46 2014, in response to Unarmed, posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Sep 1 17:28:07 2014. Your source is invalid. |
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Re: Unarmed |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Sep 2 20:39:50 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by Nilet on Tue Sep 2 20:36:46 2014. IAWTP |
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Re: Unarmed |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Tue Sep 2 22:09:14 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Sep 2 20:39:50 2014. Parrot |
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Re: Unarmed |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Sep 2 22:09:55 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by Jeff Rosen on Tue Sep 2 22:09:14 2014. Idiot |
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Re: Unarmed |
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Posted by Dave on Tue Sep 2 22:18:14 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by Nilet on Tue Sep 2 20:36:46 2014. What makes it invalid? |
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Re: Unarmed |
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Posted by rkba on Tue Sep 2 22:18:44 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by Dave on Tue Sep 2 22:18:14 2014. It contradicts Nilet non-thinking, so therefore it cannot be used. |
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Re: Unarmed |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Sep 2 22:20:02 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by Dave on Tue Sep 2 22:18:14 2014. Breitbart? Seriously? |
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Re: Unarmed |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Sep 2 22:34:21 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by Nilet on Tue Sep 2 20:36:46 2014. Here's where Breitbart may have gotten his numbers. |
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Re: Unarmed |
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Posted by Dave on Tue Sep 2 22:42:56 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by Nilet on Tue Sep 2 22:20:02 2014. Is the information accurate? That's the better question. It doesn't matter what aource reported it. The fact of the matter is that Nicola Cotton was killed with her own gun after she approached an unarmed man for questioning. The story was heavily reported in The Times-Picayune four years ago. So Sarge is correct and you owe him an apology. |
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Re: Unarmed |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Sep 2 22:46:35 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Sep 2 22:34:21 2014. That source says one officer was killed with his own gun in 2012, but that his gun wasn't stolen.On average, 2.5 cops were killed each year by cops whose guns were stolen, which falls short of "every three months." It would be more accurate to say "every 4.8 months on average." Meanwhile, an unarmed and innocent black man is shot to death by cops or vigilantes every 28 hours, around 125 times more frequently. |
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Re: Unarmed |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Sep 2 22:48:39 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by Nilet on Tue Sep 2 22:46:35 2014. IAWTP |
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Re: Unarmed |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Sep 2 22:52:22 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by Dave on Tue Sep 2 22:42:56 2014. Is the information accurate? That's the better question.It contains a grain of truth surrounded by lies— Officer Nicola Cotton was killed with her own gun by a schizophrenic man who, last I heard, was deemed incompetent to face trial and confined to a psychiatric hospital. However, the claim that this happens "every three months" is an exaggeration, and the implied message that police shootings should be excused as a matter of course is complete bullshit. Even if we accepted that a cop is killed by his own gun every 3 months, that's still a lot less frequent than the daily shootings of unarmed and innocent black men by cops and vigilantes which are already routinely excused without investigation. The story was heavily reported in The Times-Picayune four years ago. Yes, but the plural of anecdote is not data. So Sarge is correct and you owe him an apology. Nope. Pointing to one incident, claiming it's a pervasive problem, and using this made-up problem to excuse an actual pervasive problem is dishonest. My assessment is correct. |
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Re: Unarmed |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Sep 2 23:20:14 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by Nilet on Tue Sep 2 22:46:35 2014. I think you have to read the entire table before reaching a conclusion."Killed with Own Weapon" appears in two places: "Weapon Stolen" and "Weapon Not Stolen." For the 10 year period from 2003 to 2012 there were 25 instances where the weapon was stolen and 18 where the weapon was not stolen. That comes to 43 instances where the policeman was killed with his own weapon over the 10 year period. That comes to 4.3 instances per year or one every 2.79 months. |
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Re: Unarmed |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Sep 2 23:36:29 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Sep 2 23:20:14 2014. Nice. |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Sep 3 00:02:28 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Sep 2 23:20:14 2014. Yes, I read the whole table. In 2012, a total of one officer was killed with his own gun, but it wasn't stolen.Between 2003 and 2012, there were 25 officers who were killed after their guns were stolen, or about 2.5 per year. The 18 officers whose guns were not stolen are irrelevant to the claims presented in the original post, as they don't necessarily represent cases of a cop being shot by an unarmed suspect; an officer who is shot with his own gun without ever losing possession of it is more likely to have been killed by an accidental discharge or bad aim during a struggle. |
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Re: Unarmed |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Sep 3 01:06:21 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by Nilet on Wed Sep 3 00:02:28 2014. IAWTP |
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Re: Unarmed |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Sep 3 07:31:54 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by Nilet on Wed Sep 3 00:02:28 2014. The 18 officers whose guns were not stolen are irrelevant to the claims presented in the original post, as they don't necessarily represent cases of a cop being shot by an unarmed suspect; an officer who is shot with his own gun without ever losing possession of it is more likely to have been killed by an accidental discharge or bad aim during a struggle.Here's footnote 1 from Table 13: The term "stolen" indicates the weapon was taken from the scene of the incident. Regardless of whether the officer's gun was taken from the scene, there is some ambiguity of whether the assailant was armed. It's an assumption that the assailant used the officer's gun because the assailant was unarmed. |
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Posted by Dave on Wed Sep 3 07:53:12 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Sep 3 07:31:54 2014. Steve, you're arguing with a troll. All you'll end up doing is raise your blood pressure. |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Sep 3 08:25:35 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by rkba on Tue Sep 2 22:18:44 2014. ^^^Yep. |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Sep 3 08:29:47 2014, in response to Unarmed, posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Sep 1 17:28:07 2014. Don't worry, the expert neophyte laymen will tell you, the sergeant, that you are wrong. Ya know why? Because THEY know better than YOU!!Bizzaro World.... |
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Re: Unarmed |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Sep 3 08:36:45 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Sep 3 08:29:47 2014. I'm not saying he or you are wrong in this subthread/thread but individual police officers have certainly been wrong many many many times in the history of the world. I have personally been told by police officers that photography in the subway is illegal. They were wrong. So you can't come on here and claim that you and he can't be wrong just because you are police officers, especially when many people are finding errors in what you are posting. |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Sep 3 08:41:02 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Sep 3 08:36:45 2014. I never said I was a cop. Yes, the police ARE wrong when it comes to photography in the system(no tripod) if they tell you that. BUT, there are people here who STILL stereotype the police as thuggish, brutal, stupid cavemen who aren't intelligent and thus just break the rules/laws all day long and post responses as somehow wrong. Hardly ANY other profession gets that rep. EVERYONE can do your job better than you.What errors are people finding in my posts? |
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Re: Unarmed |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Sep 3 08:43:50 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by Dave on Wed Sep 3 07:53:12 2014. Why anyone would even attempt to respond to him is beyond me. I even stopped reading his posts, and this place is a lot better since. I wish it was like SubTalk where you can actually block handles from coming up on your screen, as then you wouldn't have to scroll through endless posts by one person who's a troll. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Sep 3 08:49:24 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by Dave on Tue Sep 2 22:18:14 2014. I guess the official New Orleans website is also invalid:http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2008/01/no_cop_killed_with_own_gun.html  N.O. cop killed with own gun Brendan McCarthy, The Times-Picayune By Brendan McCarthy, The Times-Picayune Follow on Twitter on January 28, 2008 at 9:57 PM, updated October 05, 2009 at 5:26 PM Officer Nicola Cotton By Brendan McCarthy, Laura Maggi and Mary Sparacello Staff writers A New Orleans police officer was fatally shot Monday morning in Central City by a man who police initially called a possible rape suspect, but who relatives said is a paranoid schizophrenic transient with no history of sexual assault. On Monday morning, officer Nicola Cotton, 24, approached a middle-aged man sitting in the parking lot a Central City strip of stores, Police Department spokesman Sgt. Joe Narcisse said. Police Superintendent Warren Riley said the man appeared homeless. Surveillance footage shows Cotton motioning casually about 10 a.m. for the man to come near, police said. At that point, for reasons unclear, he pounced, Narcisse said.  For seven minutes, the pair tussled on the pavement, police said. Cotton called for backup on her radio at some point during the struggle, but the man wrestled her gun away from her and shot her before help could arrive, police said. Ted Jackson / Times-PicayunePolice officers walk Bernel Johnson through Orleans Parish lockup. Johnson is being charged with the first-degree murder of NOPD police officer Nicola Cotton. "He fired several times," Narcisse said. "She goes down to the ground. He just stands there, over her, looking down." He fired again, unloading her service weapon of all its bullets, Narcisse said. Cotton -- a shy, soft-spoken and ambitious young officer patrolling some of the city's most violent corridors -- was pronounced dead minutes later at University Hospital. She became the second female NOPD officer killed in the line of duty. Two men, similar names Police said Cotton was shot in the 2100 block of Earhart Boulevard by Bernel Johnson, a man described as having a history of sexual assault in an NOPD news release. "Officer Cotton responded to a suspicious person, possibly the perpetrator of a sexual assault," the news release stated. "Johnson has been previously arrested for sexual assaults in Jefferson Parish." Riley, addressing reporters shortly after police booked Johnson into jail, also said the suspect has a history of sex offenses. But Bernel Johnson's family in Kenner described him as a wayward vagrant with mental health issues and a minor police record -- a man who had bounced in and out of mental health institutions. An electronic search of court records in Orleans and Jefferson parishes turned up no recent record for a Bernel Johnson. The same records search, however, produced a criminal history for another man named Bernell Johnson -- spelled with two "l's" -- also 44, who pleaded guilty to forcible rape in 1998, and has been arrested for other offenses. It's unclear if the Police Department confused the two men, but the suspect in the shooting of the police officer was booked into jail under the wrong name spelling and wrong birth date -- information matching that of the Johnson convicted of rape. 'A very dangerous job' In Kenner, Bernel Johnson's family members described him as a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic with violent tendencies. They say they have long fought a losing battle to get him mental help. Gathered in a front room of a Kenner home Monday night, Johnson's family said he was diagnosed with the illness when he was 19. With tears welling, Johnson's brother Timothy Johnson expressed his condolences to Cotton's family. "I'm sorry her life was brought to such an abrupt end serving the community," he said. Riley said the shooting cast a pall of grief over the New Orleans Police Department. "It is extremely difficult. I just left a group of officers who are crying, who are upset," Riley said. "My message to the officers: We have citizens to serve. We have a very, very, very dangerous job. We have to do all that we can to keep our citizens safe, as well as ourselves." It is unclear what prompted Cotton to question Johnson in the parking lot shared by a urban wear store, a Chinese food store and a laundry. Cotton was patrolling alone, without a partner, which Riley called common practice. Riley said Cotton responded to a call about a man who was possibly wanted for rape and found him in the lot. Narcisse said Cotton was responding to a report of a "suspicious person." Struggle caught on tape All agree that Cotton stopped her patrol vehicle, approached the man and began questioning him. At some point, Cotton radioed in to a dispatcher that the matter was "Code 4," which means the officer doesn't need backup. Johnson was sitting down, and when she reached out to handcuff him, he pushed her away, Riley said. After viewing surveillance footage, Narcisse said Cotton had her hand by her side and motioned to Johnson in a "come here" manner. He attacked. During the struggle, the officer lost control of her radio, but she was able to recover it and call for backup. The suspect, who Riley described as twice the officer's size, then grabbed her weapon and shot her.. A report of an "officer down" crackled across department police radios. Additional patrol cars arrived within about two minutes, police said. With guns drawn, responding officers approached Johnson, Narcisse said. In a matter-of-fact manner, Johnson held out Cotton's .40 caliber Glock, gripping it by the butt of the handle. He handed it to a police officer, Narcisse said, and officers detained him. Police declined to say whether Cotton was wearing a police-issued safety vest. Riley said Cotton did not perceive Johnson as a threat. "She followed procedures as far as we are concerned," he said. After questioning Johnson at police headquarters, homicide detectives walked him into Central Lockup. Suspect's family stunned Clad in an orange Orleans Parish Prison jumpsuit, a handcuffed Johnson grumbled aloud about "the paparazzi." At one point, he grunted into a television reporter's microphone. In the aftermath of the murder, police officials told Cotton's relatives in Memphis of her death. Relatives were flying in late Monday, police said. As Cotton's family and members of the NOPD mourned late Monday, the alleged killer's family learned of his involvement. When first contacted by The Times-Picayune, Johnson's family said their relative was not the man arrested in the murder. Their Bernel Johnson did not have any rape or sexual assault convictions, they said. But after watching the evening news, the family was thrown for a loop. They said Johnson suffers delusions and has tried to kill himself several times, overdosing on pills and chemicals, and shooting himself in the chest. Their many efforts to institutionalize him would fail, with advocates such as social workers and attorneys saying they could do nothing unless he hurt somebody. And when he was institutionalized, Bernel Johnson wouldn't stay in for long. "He knows the system, and he knows what to say to get out," Timothy Johnson said. He said his brother would stay on his medication while incarcerated but then stop taking it when he was released. Johnson's family said he has been incarcerated for such crimes as vagrancy and disturbing the peace but never for anything more violent than assault or battery, they said. 'This is just atrocious' Near the scene of the shooting Monday morning, mechanic Tommy Christina watched paramedics put the officer on a stretcher. "Officers were screaming and yelling,"" Christina, 27, said. "They were coming from everywhere." A couple of doors down at a convenience store, manager Omar Farah shook his head in disgust. "We are killing our own cops," he said. "This is just atrocious." Within the past few days, Cotton had become a regular customer of the Magnolia Superette. The employees called her "ponytail" because of her hair style. Farah described Cotton as sweet, a polite woman with a badge. Typically, she ordered grits in the morning, he said. On Monday, she had a smoked sausage sandwich with cheese on toast. About 30 minutes later, paramedics rushed to the scene of her shooting. |
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Re: Unarmed |
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Posted by Dave on Wed Sep 3 09:29:16 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Sep 3 08:41:02 2014. According to come here, the mere fact that you exist makes you a KKK Nazi bigot. |
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Posted by Dave on Wed Sep 3 09:30:40 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Sep 3 08:43:50 2014. Agreed, Chris. A handle block would be nice. |
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Re: Unarmed |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Sep 3 09:37:09 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Sep 3 08:41:02 2014. BUT, there are people here who STILL stereotype the police as thuggish, brutal, stupid cavemen who aren't intelligent and thus just break the rules/laws all day long and post responses as somehow wrong.Because notorious incidents and practices enhance that reputation. It may be an urban legend, but how many public employee jobs disqualify you for being too intelligent? Do firefighters harass people for taking pictures? Have EMTs been known to use excessive force, even to the point of killing people, when trying to help them? That sort of shit just doesn't make them look good. |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Sep 3 09:38:29 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Sep 3 08:43:50 2014. I even stopped reading his postsThank you. :) |
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Re: Unarmed |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Sep 3 12:04:41 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Sep 3 08:41:02 2014. I never said I was a cop.You seemed to be implying it. Or maybe that you were somehow otherwise involved in law or law enforcement. BUT, there are people here who STILL stereotype the police as thuggish, brutal, stupid cavemen who aren't intelligent and thus just break the rules/laws all day longJust Salaam, right? Don't bother with him. What errors are people finding in my posts?Definitions of certain types of crimes. |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Sep 3 12:20:55 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Sep 3 08:41:02 2014. What errors are people finding in my posts?You seem to insist that there is no such crime as "felony murder" in NY. You seem to refuse to acknowledge that an action that isn't specifically labeled as a crime all by itself (a chokehold) could possibly become a crime if it was part of a reckless activity. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Sep 3 12:39:31 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by AlM on Wed Sep 3 12:20:55 2014. Or rather he seems to misunderstand the meaning of the term "felony murder" and thus is unaware of the crime that is called that. |
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Re: Unarmed |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Sep 3 14:03:14 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by 3-9 on Wed Sep 3 09:37:09 2014. The firemen point is non-applicable, as confronting people for photographs, whether right or wrong isn't even a part of their job.EMT'S HAVE been known to lose patients who were going psycho on them before the police were on scene. It IS urban legend. There are doctors and lawyers in both the PD and FD. Also college professors, scientists, etc.. Obviously they're not common, but they're still there. So, is it PERFECTLY OK to stereotype the police on subchat BUT not the thugs who just happen to be black? You can't have a double standard. |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Sep 3 14:05:52 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Sep 3 12:04:41 2014. As for the crime definitions, I'm not wrong at all.More than just him think that about police. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Sep 3 14:06:27 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Sep 3 14:03:14 2014. It is not an urban legend as it actually happened in New London, CT. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Sep 3 14:06:43 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Sep 3 14:03:14 2014. It is not an urban legend as it actually happened in New London, CT. |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Sep 3 14:07:10 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by AlM on Wed Sep 3 12:20:55 2014. Huh?!?!?! ALL murder is felony murder!!I do aknowledge that, BUT this doesn't apply in Garner's case. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Sep 3 14:07:55 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Sep 3 14:05:52 2014. You are absolutely wrong. It is clear from your post that you don't know what "felony murder" is. |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Sep 3 14:08:33 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Sep 3 12:39:31 2014. Wrong. I first had to learn ALL about the terms when I was in school. Then of course, I had to learn it again and how to apply it. |
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Re: Unarmed |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Sep 3 14:09:41 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Sep 3 14:07:10 2014. Once again, you are showing even more clearly that you have no idea what "felony murder" is. You are also showing yourself to be a lazy poster because after it was pointed out the first time, rather than Googling it, you just decided to make a bigger fool of yourself. |
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Re: Unarmed |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Sep 3 14:10:32 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by Dave on Wed Sep 3 09:29:16 2014. I can't be in the KKK as I'm Catholic, so I'm out.The NAZI party was a 1930s-40s socialist party. Again, not for me. A bigot is someone who hates other races or religions for no reason. BUT, I see your point. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Sep 3 14:10:58 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Sep 3 14:08:33 2014. Clearly you didn't learn enough. You also didn't learn proper "learning skills." |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Sep 3 14:12:22 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Sep 3 14:10:32 2014. LOL! Even if the NSDAP had been a socialist party at some point, it clearly wasn't by the "1930s-40s." |
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Re: Unarmed |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Sep 3 14:26:54 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Sep 3 14:03:14 2014. The firemen point is non-applicable, as confronting people for photographs, whether right or wrong isn't even a part of their job.That's the point, the act of confronting people for taking photographs when it's perfectly legal to do so feeds the impression that they're thugs, even if nothing comes of it. When people take pictures of firefighters responding, do firefighters try to stop you (unless you're obstructing them)? And not all of the unarmed people who died from police encounters were going psycho. IMO, if they were known mental cases the outcry would not be so bad. Personally, I give police credit for running TOWARDS danger while the majority of us are running FROM it. There are many people paid the same or more than them who don't have to do that. So, is it PERFECTLY OK to stereotype the police on subchat BUT not the thugs who just happen to be black? You can't have a double standard. On subchat, probably not. On OTchat? There are people whose shticks revolve around double standards. :-) |
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Re: Unarmed |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Sep 3 14:49:16 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by 3-9 on Wed Sep 3 14:26:54 2014. When I said Subchat, I meant the website as a whole. |
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Re: Unarmed |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Wed Sep 3 17:32:04 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Sep 3 14:07:55 2014. That's what I'm taking about. |
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Re: Unarmed |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Wed Sep 3 17:33:09 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Sep 3 14:05:52 2014. Lawyers and other intelligent people are saying otherwise. No one intelligent is defending your position. |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu Sep 4 05:26:35 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by TerrApin Station on Wed Sep 3 17:33:09 2014. "Other intelligent people"? Like being an attorney automatically makes you intelligent? Newsflash: Law school was just an extention of college. I bet that medical school is MUCH harder. The BAR exam? Just study and you pass...I happen to be right. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Sep 4 05:33:15 2014, in response to Re: Unarmed, posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu Sep 4 05:26:35 2014. The turtle is our godhead here, Unca Bill ... thou shalt not blaspheme his excellence ... Lulz. :) |
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