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| Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. (1219666) | |
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| (1219666) | |
Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 11:27:45 2014 http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/27/nyregion/separate-entryways-for-new-york-condo-buyers-and-renters-create-an-affordable-housing-dilemma.html?_r=0Seems like a good idea. I find it interesting that some commenters are complaining that the only reason the rich developer was allowed to build a building as large was because of its inclusion of affordable units, when the only reason that the size of the building was constrained was due to the city's restraint on building size. |
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| (1219757) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Aug 27 15:57:32 2014, in response to Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 11:27:45 2014. I agree. As long as the affordable section is equally well-maintained, I don't really see a problem with it. I think it sucks a little that the renters could not use some of the condo services, even though they were willing to pay the fees. |
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| (1219779) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Aug 27 17:49:30 2014, in response to Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 11:27:45 2014. I disagree. One of the reasons for promoting mixed-income housing is that rich and poor get to interact with one another coming and going at minimum. There's such a severe economic divide as it is, such a segregation as a "poor door" (which also unfairly describes the people renting in places like this.....in Manhattan, it's working middle class) only serves to deepen the chasm.It's also unfair to prohibit renters from accessing services if they are willing and able to pay for them. However, that is the owner's call, just speaks to the character of the zillionaires that own places like that. |
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| (1219781) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Aug 27 17:56:07 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by bingbong on Wed Aug 27 17:49:30 2014. I thought the main reason was to get developers to build some kind of affordable housing in the first place. Getting them to build decent housing should be the first priority. |
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| (1219787) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Aug 27 18:19:32 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by 3-9 on Wed Aug 27 17:56:07 2014. They can do that without the segregation of a separate entrance. There's more to the affordable housing issue than the lack of affordable housing. |
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| (1219789) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Aug 27 18:40:47 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by bingbong on Wed Aug 27 18:19:32 2014. Maybe, maybe not. But I don't think the issue is big enough to warrant mandating a single main entrance. In a way, it's not that different than if you got the developer to build 2 separate buildings, one for affordable housing, one for condos. |
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| (1219790) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Wed Aug 27 18:40:54 2014, in response to Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 11:27:45 2014. I hate how people are complaining they have a separate entrance. Just be happy you're in the neighborhood, with the good schools, and a safer environment. These people then complain they cant share in the amenities that people who paid $25 million have. I'm sorry, you pay $800 a month, you don't get that, and I don't feel bad. |
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| (1219793) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Dan on Wed Aug 27 18:53:25 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by 3-9 on Wed Aug 27 18:40:47 2014. Truth is in the real world of NYC real estate wealthy buyers and renters would not be interested in living in a single mixed structure. Marketing such a building would be near impossible. |
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| (1219794) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 18:54:46 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by ClearAspect on Wed Aug 27 18:40:54 2014. Yep ... separate but equal ... that's what made America great!
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| (1219797) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Aug 27 19:11:54 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 18:54:46 2014. IAWTP |
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| (1219798) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Aug 27 19:15:09 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Dan on Wed Aug 27 18:53:25 2014. That's a harsh point, though it probably does have a grain of truth. |
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| (1219802) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 19:23:07 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by 3-9 on Wed Aug 27 18:40:47 2014. Yes, exactly. There's nothing wrong with a separate entrance so long as it's adequately maintained and faces an actual street or walkway. It would be wrong if they were forced to go through the loading dock past the trash heap. |
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| (1219804) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 19:24:30 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 18:54:46 2014. That's different. |
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| (1219805) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Aug 27 19:24:47 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 18:54:46 2014. Heh. However, class separation isn't illegal. :-S |
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| (1219806) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Aug 27 19:26:00 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by ClearAspect on Wed Aug 27 18:40:54 2014. These people then complain they cant share in the amenities that people who paid $25 million have.That's the thing though - if it was free, and/or heavily subsidized by the condos' maintenance payments, then yeah, the renters can't complain. But if facility maintenance comes from the fee charged to residents who use the facilities, then the renters have a little more credence. |
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| (1219815) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 19:32:54 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by 3-9 on Wed Aug 27 19:24:47 2014. Class segregation isn't bad. Racial segregation is. |
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| (1219816) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 19:33:31 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 19:24:30 2014. Actually it isn't ... substitute "poor" for "colored" and there you are. |
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| (1219817) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 19:33:50 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by 3-9 on Wed Aug 27 19:26:00 2014. But members of the public aren't entitled to use those services. |
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| (1219818) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Aug 27 19:33:55 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 19:23:07 2014. Chances are it won't be. Maybe not for a few years at first, but eventually, yes. |
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| (1219822) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 19:34:56 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by 3-9 on Wed Aug 27 19:24:47 2014. Pretty much the same thing since you can't say "colored" anymore. Same result though. While I understand that there wouldn't be housing at all for the poorer citizens of NYC had they not done this, the folks that can afford those rents ain't exactly "ghetto" either. |
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| (1219823) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 19:35:05 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 19:33:31 2014. No, it is different. Those classifications are not interchangeable. You can't control your race. |
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| (1219825) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 19:35:50 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by bingbong on Wed Aug 27 19:33:55 2014. How is that different than any other landlord? |
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| (1219828) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 19:36:52 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 19:34:56 2014. People who can't afford to live in choice areas should commute or move to another metro. |
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| (1219829) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Aug 27 19:37:40 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 19:32:54 2014. I guess, but there's always an icky feeling when I hear segregation being applied to people. |
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| (1219830) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Wed Aug 27 19:38:05 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 19:34:56 2014. Are you cheering on Charlie Crist? |
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| (1219851) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Aug 27 19:41:35 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 19:33:50 2014. True. It really comes down to which class or group of residents are allowed to use those facilities, where that boundary line is. |
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| (1219853) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Aug 27 19:44:19 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 19:32:54 2014. That depends on how the classes are defined.If there's a separation between the people who are born rich and the people who are born poor and it's all but impossible to change one's socioeconomic status after birth, then that's just as bad as racism. |
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| (1219870) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 19:55:55 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 19:35:05 2014. So you believe that comparative poverty is solely the result of a lack of will? |
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| (1219872) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 20:05:30 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 19:36:52 2014. And they are, which is why so many businesses in the city are having trouble hiring. Once I got out of the city, suddenly realized that I didn't have to go back there anymore. Others are figuring that out too. :( |
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| (1219873) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Wed Aug 27 20:05:36 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 18:54:46 2014. Selkirk, this is not segregation, the fact of the matter is, this is private property, the government cannot build the housing anymore, they have to play to the developers rules. No one in their right mind who can afford these things would be pleased that what they paid 1 million+ for, someone is paying $800. That's the fact, there is no tying this in to segregation and racism. This is a government passing the buck of their lack of foresight and forcing the private sector to do it. The fact is that they're in the neighborhood, they get the benefits of that said neighborhood. |
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| (1219874) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 20:06:04 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by ChicagoMotorman on Wed Aug 27 19:38:05 2014. Nope ... too busy pissing on Prince Andrew. :) |
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| (1219882) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Wed Aug 27 20:13:16 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 20:06:04 2014. ? |
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| (1219886) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Aug 27 20:17:04 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 19:35:50 2014. It shouldn't be. OTOH, here we have the epitome of greed, these multimillion dollar condo developers who realize enough profit to take a hit in providing some affordable housing. (There's probably some tax advantages to this as well) Still doesn't give them the right to treat such with discriminatory practices like a separate entrance. |
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| (1219888) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by FtGreeneG on Wed Aug 27 20:17:42 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 19:23:07 2014. I dunno about that... I can understand the affordable housing renters not being able to use the amenities(the gym, roof garden etc) even having the lower fl apts with less of a view but seperate entrances? Thats a bit much and a slippery slope. Whats next seperate elevators. |
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| (1219889) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 20:18:22 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by ClearAspect on Wed Aug 27 20:05:36 2014. I agree to a point, but the whole thought of people paying rent having to "use the service entrance" is something I just don't like the idea of. |
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| (1219890) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 20:18:47 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by ChicagoMotorman on Wed Aug 27 20:13:16 2014. Our arrogant governor. |
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| (1219895) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 20:22:38 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by FtGreeneG on Wed Aug 27 20:17:42 2014. Or maybe none since they're in the "low rise?" :) |
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| (1219900) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Aug 27 20:26:57 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by FtGreeneG on Wed Aug 27 20:17:42 2014. Whats next seperate elevators.Probably already there, since the example looks like an attachment. |
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| (1219904) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Aug 27 20:32:49 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by ClearAspect on Wed Aug 27 20:05:36 2014. There's a BIG difference in what one actually gets, from square footage to quality of fixtures, between the condos and rentals in the buildings. |
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| (1219905) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Wed Aug 27 20:34:00 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 20:18:22 2014. Its an attached building with its own entrance. To think of it as a service entrance is degrading those people. But the fact is you get to live in a beautiful area, great schools, hospitals, etc etc for such a low cost is why you move there. Its not like they're moving into this shitty building that pales compared to the next building with the millionaires. Its beautiful, the apartments are nice, its not half assed. So its a secondary entrance, but its not like they skimped everywhere else. |
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| (1219906) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Aug 27 20:35:04 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by FtGreeneG on Wed Aug 27 20:17:42 2014. Actually, that's part of it too. Two separate worlds within one structure. |
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| (1219908) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 20:36:59 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by ClearAspect on Wed Aug 27 20:34:00 2014. Didn't know that ... I was under the impression that it was a single building with "separate but equal" divided up vertically by economics. If it's a separate building, then that's not all that terrible. |
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| (1219909) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Wed Aug 27 20:38:48 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by ClearAspect on Wed Aug 27 20:34:00 2014. Btw, Selkirk ya know I respect ya, but sometimes we diverge. LOL no hard feelings right? |
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| (1219910) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 20:41:34 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by ClearAspect on Wed Aug 27 20:38:48 2014. No hard feelings ever, bro! I'm just here doing my MTV/TLC reality show thang. :) |
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| (1219911) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Wed Aug 27 20:42:20 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 20:36:59 2014. Yeah, Selkirk basically in order to help boost the prospects of getting private developers on board building affordable housing the city allowed builders to put the affordable apartments in an attached segment of the building. So it can be the same complex, but its basically a separate building. I don't think anyone saw that the secondary entrance would be seen in such a negative way. |
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| (1219917) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 21:00:44 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by ClearAspect on Wed Aug 27 20:42:20 2014. Knowing how hard it is to afford living in NYC even if you're doing pretty well, I guess it's better than nothing. And I only know what I read here, so really dunno what the floor plan is. |
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| (1219926) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 21:42:25 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by bingbong on Wed Aug 27 20:17:04 2014. That is not greed at all. Why do you feel entitled to their money? |
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| (1219927) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 21:43:42 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by FtGreeneG on Wed Aug 27 20:17:42 2014. Well, obviously with a separate entrance you need a separate elevator. There is no internal connection between the market rate and "affordable" parts of the building. |
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| (1219928) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 21:45:22 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 19:55:55 2014. No, I don't. But why do you feel entitled to upper class amenities? Maybe we should abolish private property and have everyone live in the crappy Soviet apartment that is according to their need. Unless you're an important member of The Party. |
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| (1219929) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 21:47:01 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Nilet on Wed Aug 27 19:44:19 2014. But that is a separate argument entirely. Unless you believe that the proper way to alleviate the lack of income/wealth mobility is to keep the poor poor but to give them gifts. |
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