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| Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar (1173451) | |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by dand124 on Mon Apr 14 18:30:55 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 18:27:33 2014. when was the area stolen from the palestinians? |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 14 18:31:21 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 18:13:03 2014. You can't see the difference between terrorism and other crime? So terrorism is the same as robbing a liquor store to you, provided the number of victims are the same? |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 18:33:33 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 14 18:24:59 2014. 1. So what? Maybe the Rashidun Caliphate or whatever you would consider its successor should take responsibility for conquering Israel and forcing its population to convert to Islam. Also the Roman Republic for conquering it before that.I thought you claimed that Jews lived there since forever? The point is that if ten people throw shit at a wall, the last one has to clean it up or prove that he's not responsible— especially if the last one is an adult who should have known better and the other nine are children. 2. And the West Bank is occupied today for good reason. Every attempt to establish a Palestinian State on that land has failed due to Palestinian recalcitrance. As if. Say here's a thought— how about you have one state that doesn't ban people for having Arabic-sounding names while declaring that any Jew on the planet has a right to live there? 3. What about them? They do not control the Israeli government. By your logic, the United States is a theocracy because of the political power of the Evangelicals. If the Evangelicals were regularly exempted from any law they found inconvenient, I would say precisely that. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 18:34:12 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by dand124 on Mon Apr 14 18:30:55 2014. Britain took over the land from outside.Try to keep up. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 14 18:34:45 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Apr 14 16:53:44 2014. Sadly, no :( |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 18:35:23 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 14 18:27:03 2014. I think I understand your context now.I would not bet on you understanding the context of anything ever. You might want to explain what you think you've figured out because I doubt it has any bearing on the facts at hand. Have a Happy Passover. You too. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 14 18:36:44 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 18:17:26 2014. It isn't about you specifically. But why is it that this is the fixation of so many disinterested people in the world and not these other situations that they are also disinterested about. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 18:38:38 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by dand124 on Mon Apr 14 18:29:12 2014. Soviet Union's gone. Where's a current map? Or a more detailed one, so I can see the current borders. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by dand124 on Mon Apr 14 18:39:07 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 18:34:12 2014. Britain didn't take the land from the palestinians they took it from the Ottomans who took from the Mongols(i think) |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by dand124 on Mon Apr 14 18:41:34 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 18:38:38 2014. why do the current borders matter? Was Stalin wrong to expel the poles from the area in question? |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 18:44:43 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 14 18:31:21 2014. No. What is the difference? |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Apr 14 18:45:24 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 14 18:36:44 2014. Because the western nations have given up their colonies. So if you think of Israel as a western nation, and if you think of its actions as those of a colonial power (despite the numerous differences), then Israel is the only colonial power left to criticize.PS. Let's see who first ignores the conditional nature of my final phrase. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 14 18:45:27 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 18:23:28 2014. It's not relevant to the claim that they have exclusive rights to Israel now.They do not and no one has claimed that in this thread except Ologists. If it said the sky was blue, I'd believe that— and your analogy isn't even relevant. Only because you already know the sky is blue and you learned that from a valid source. Under the most charitable interpretation, you are trying to claim that the author is wrong about the physical facts that he saw because he's wrong about the semi-obscure history of how it got that way. No, I am claiming that the rest of his article is not factual and he may well have never seen those things. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 14 18:46:33 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 18:38:38 2014. Why does it matter? The border between Poland and the USSR still exists and Poland is still on one side of it. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 18:46:35 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by dand124 on Mon Apr 14 18:39:07 2014. So you took the wallet from me, who took it from Alice, who took it from Bob, who took it from Charlie. Neither of us are the legitimate owner. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 18:47:10 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Apr 14 16:53:44 2014. See, there you go with the advocating violence in response to the most trivial of provocations. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 14 18:48:59 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 18:46:35 2014. By your logic the Jews are the most senior owner. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by dand124 on Mon Apr 14 18:49:56 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 18:46:35 2014. the palestinians never owned the wallet so it couldn't have been stolen from them. the Jews have owned the wallet and it was stolen from them by the Romans. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 14 18:52:18 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 18:33:33 2014. I thought you claimed that Jews lived there since forever?And? That doesn't mean it wasn't conquered and reconquered. The point is that if ten people throw shit at a wall, the last one has to clean it up or prove that he's not responsible— especially if the last one is an adult who should have known better and the other nine are children. This is the opposite of your wallet argument. Say here's a thought— how about you have one state that doesn't ban people for having Arabic-sounding names while declaring that any Jew on the planet has a right to live there? That is untrue. If the Evangelicals were regularly exempted from any law they found inconvenient, I would say precisely that. Where are Haredim exempted from anything? |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 18:53:22 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by dand124 on Mon Apr 14 18:41:34 2014. Was Stalin wrong to expel the poles from the area in question?Yes. But that has no bearing on your claim that it's somehow improper to focus on Israeli mistreatment of Palestinians. Nor does it have any bearing on your claim that they're still excluded to this day. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 14 18:56:51 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 18:44:43 2014. I see. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by dand124 on Mon Apr 14 18:57:25 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 18:53:22 2014. But that has no bearing on your claim that it's somehow improper to focus on Israeli mistreatment of Palestinians.the people who think that the expulsion palestinians from what is now Isreal say nothing about the expulsion of Poles from the USSR that happened at the same time. the fact that they only think it's a problem if Jews do it speaks volumes. Nor does it have any bearing on your claim that they're still excluded to this day. neither Russia nor belarus have open immigration, i'm not sure about lithuania. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by dand124 on Mon Apr 14 18:59:27 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by AlM on Mon Apr 14 18:45:24 2014. you could make the case the Russia is still a colonial power in areas where ethnic russians are not a plurality of the population. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 18:59:34 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 14 18:48:59 2014. My analogy uses individuals as stand-ins for countries. "Jews" (the category) is neither. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 19:00:37 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by dand124 on Mon Apr 14 18:49:56 2014. We were talking about countries, not ethnic groups. Try to follow along. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 19:01:35 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 14 18:56:51 2014. I don't. What's the difference? |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 14 19:02:04 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by dand124 on Mon Apr 14 18:57:25 2014. What about Ukraine? |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by dand124 on Mon Apr 14 19:02:30 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 19:00:37 2014. it was a country before the romans took it over |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 19:03:59 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 14 18:45:27 2014. They do not and no one has claimed that in this thread except Ologists.Wait, so Israel is suddenly not "the Jewish state?" I thought that was pretty much the reason it exists. No, I am claiming that the rest of his article is not factual and he may well have never seen those things. Exactly. You're claiming he's incorrect about what he saw because he was wrong about the historical details about how it got that way. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by dand124 on Mon Apr 14 19:05:29 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 14 19:02:04 2014. part the area in question is Ukraine and they don't have open immigration either. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 19:08:34 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 14 18:52:18 2014. This is the opposite of your wallet argument.How so? That is untrue. Read the article. Where are Haredim exempted from anything? They're entitled to live on public assistance their whole lives in spite of being perfectly able but simply unwilling to work, and this is allowed because the state presumes reading a religious book is useful. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 14 19:08:47 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 18:59:34 2014. A Jewish State existed in Israel until 63 BCE. Why would that not count as a country? |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 19:10:13 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by dand124 on Mon Apr 14 18:57:25 2014. the fact that they only think it's a problem if Jews do it speaks volumes.Objection! Assumes facts not in evidence. As I said, it's absurd to claim that condemning something necessarily implies endorsement of literally everything else. neither Russia nor belarus have open immigration, i'm not sure about lithuania. They should. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 19:12:56 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by dand124 on Mon Apr 14 19:02:30 2014. ...which was so long ago it doesn't really have any relevance to anything now. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 14 19:13:58 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 19:03:59 2014. "Jewish" in the sense of "The Jewish State" is not a religion.If it helps, yes, I am claiming he is wrong about what he saw. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 19:14:31 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 14 19:08:47 2014. It would, but what relevance does that have today? |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 19:16:54 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 14 19:13:58 2014. Then I'll be happy to give you some more articles and dig up some more evidence.However, it's not worth it if you're going to just deny it if I do, and it's certainly not worth it if you'll just make a hundred new assertions in the time it takes to find said evidence. If you want me to do research for an internet argument, you'll need to offer some open-mindedness collateral. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 14 19:24:42 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 19:08:34 2014. 1. Your wallet argument assumed that the first possessor is the legitimate owner, but here you are switching it around to last.2. I did. It is filled with lies. This is one such lie. 3. That is another lie. Or more rather a gross oversimplification. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 14 19:27:15 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 19:12:56 2014. The article you're so fond of citing in this thread used the lineage of the Palestinians as part of its argument. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 14 19:28:56 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 19:16:54 2014. Open-mindedness apparently means agreeing with you. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 21:28:01 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 14 19:28:56 2014. Nope. Just offer some assurance that you'll accept the evidence if I present it. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 21:28:03 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 14 19:27:15 2014. It only referenced their lineage to point out that they had been there long enough to reasonably call it their homeland; they're not immigrants or the first-generation descendants thereof like a good number of the Jews who settled there.However, that is irrelevant. Races do not have exclusive rights to lands, and countries do not have the right to restrict travel based on ancestry. What is relevant is this: The West Bank is being kept in poverty by Israeli occupation. Gaza is being kept in poverty by Israeli blockades and occupation in everything but name. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 21:28:11 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 14 19:24:42 2014. 1. Your wallet argument assumed that the first possessor is the legitimate owner, but here you are switching it around to last.No. The wallet argument assumes that if a succession of people steal a wallet, the last person who didn't steal it is the owner. The wall argument assumes that if a succession of people vandalise a property, the last vandal is responsible for the cleanup of any damage he can't attribute to the other vandals— and that he's responsible for all of the damage if he's the only adult and all of the other vandals are little children who couldn't be expected to know better. 2. I did. It is filled with lies. This is one such lie. You've repeatedly asserted it to be lies, but you haven't provided any evidence of that. 3. That is another lie. Or more rather a gross oversimplification. Slight oversimplification at most. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 15 03:08:06 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 14 18:30:09 2014. You blamed the Palestinians for their own oppression on the basis that individual Palestinians commit acts of violence. I disproved this argument using my example about race relations in the US.When one's argument is debunked, it is customary to provide another or abandon the position. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Tue Apr 15 08:37:07 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 18:47:10 2014. Stop taking things so seriously. That was a joke because Brian keeps bringing up one comment I made about breaking a camera of someone who was making a civilian complaint against me, which was in jest.You are the one advocating violence by taking the side of terrorists. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Gamera on Tue Apr 15 10:36:53 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Jeff Rosen on Tue Apr 15 08:37:07 2014. I am not surprised that he gets questioned and can't get photo permits with his attitude |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 15 13:55:14 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Gamera on Tue Apr 15 10:36:53 2014. It shouldn't matter for that though. He's NOT on the terrorist list. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Apr 15 16:09:52 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 19:01:35 2014. Terrorism's purpose is instilling terror into a group of people. A crime can have all kinds of reasons, not necessarily instilling terror. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 15 16:37:35 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by 3-9 on Tue Apr 15 16:09:52 2014. Yes, but if two crimes have the same number of victims (keeping in mind that people killed and people intimidated into changing behaviour or belief are both "victims") then there's no meaningful distinction between the crimes— the motive really doesn't matter.Two wars, a massive surveillance state, a few concentration camps, a few hundred or thousand cases of wrongful imprisonment and torture, and the general suspension of basic human rights rest on the failure to understand this fact. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by dand124 on Tue Apr 15 16:42:05 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 15 03:08:06 2014. Hamas the winner of the Palestinian supports suicide bombers. |
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