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| Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors (1125230) | |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Nov 16 09:11:19 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by Dave on Sat Nov 16 06:58:52 2013. Murder with intent vs. murder due to depraved indifference to human life. It's not manslaughter when you know 10% of your cargo will die on average. |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by bingbong on Sat Nov 16 09:15:40 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by Edwards! on Sat Nov 16 02:09:47 2013. They refuse to se the equivalency here, yet they whine all holy hell when their catastrophic near genocide is questioned. Then they give a pass to American racism despite the experience there just as horrific (Jews were also enslaved by the Nazis) and resulted in just as much death. |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by Fred G on Sat Nov 16 09:16:13 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by AlM on Sat Nov 16 09:11:19 2013. Manslaughter through today's lens. At the time it would have been perceived as animal cruelty.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Nov 16 09:20:16 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by Easy on Sat Nov 16 08:22:02 2013. Logistics problems:Disposing of the bodies. Making sure you had people who were willing to do the dirty work. Regular soldiers would have probably mostly refused. Doing it secretly. If everyone knew that Jews would just get murdered after being rounded up, there would have been more violent resistance like the Warsaw Ghetto uprising. There might also have been military mutinies. Lots of generals who wanted to further the glory of Germany might have rebelled at the idea of deliberate mass murder if they had known. |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Nov 16 09:22:41 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by Fred G on Sat Nov 16 09:16:13 2013. It doesn't make it less bad for the victims that standards were different at the time. You can say that Robert E Lee was a basically decent man in the context of his time, but you don't have to totally excuse him for going along with a cruel system. |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Nov 16 09:26:40 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by Fred G on Sat Nov 16 02:37:56 2013. Many plantation owners didn't act in their own best self-interest. (Does that sound familiar?) They would have been better off economically if they had treated their slaves well, but nevertheless many owners didn't do it. |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat Nov 16 09:30:50 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Nov 15 20:19:34 2013. It's an insult to American servicemembers and every other true American to hold the Confederate flag and every repulsive and anti-American thing it stood for with anything other than total and complete contempt. |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat Nov 16 09:34:53 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by Dave on Sat Nov 16 06:58:52 2013. Well Dave, after reading your post, I now think that displaying the Confederate flag is a perfectly normal and non-offensive thing to do.Thanks Dave. |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by Easy on Sat Nov 16 09:39:05 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by AlM on Sat Nov 16 09:20:16 2013. Yet some of the people were indeed put to death immediately and some were there for years. Maybe having no place to keep everyone could have been the logistics problem. Especially when the war started going poorly for them. |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Sat Nov 16 09:49:02 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Nov 15 21:46:49 2013. At least I am not a hypocrite. |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Sat Nov 16 09:50:34 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Nov 15 21:42:52 2013. Byrd never changed. |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Sat Nov 16 10:01:41 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Nov 16 02:29:52 2013. 
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Nov 16 10:05:41 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by Easy on Sat Nov 16 08:22:02 2013. If you're going to kill them anyway, might as well get some slave labor out of them first.A significant number were killed immediately. That's the difference between a death camp and a concentration camp. |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Sat Nov 16 10:06:14 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by SMAZ on Sat Nov 16 09:30:50 2013.  just to piss you off.
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Nov 16 10:09:19 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Sat Nov 16 10:06:14 2013. Traitor. You want a moratorium on immigration. You should be stripped of your citizenship and deported. |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat Nov 16 10:09:23 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Sat Nov 16 10:06:14 2013. You disgrace yourself.Get the fuck out of my country. |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by Fred G on Sat Nov 16 10:11:38 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by AlM on Sat Nov 16 09:22:41 2013. No the inhumanity is the same but there was a different consciousness about it one way vs how we view it now. I'm not excusing it.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by Fred G on Sat Nov 16 10:14:44 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by AlM on Sat Nov 16 09:26:40 2013. I don't think the north treated its immigrants well either. They were free, but were basically indentured through poverty. The slaves were not paid but were fed and sheltered. I bring up both since I don't think anyone was savvy to better pay = better productivity at the time.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by bingbong on Sat Nov 16 10:18:18 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by Fred G on Sat Nov 16 02:37:56 2013. Considering they could always get more, not particularly.Read this link:This Link |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Nov 16 10:20:46 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Sat Nov 16 09:49:02 2013. Um, you are. You are outraged over mistreatment of Jews (and rightly so) yet gloss over far worse mistreatment of blacks. |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Nov 16 10:23:16 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by Fred G on Sat Nov 16 10:14:44 2013. True, but tolerable living conditions (vs intolerable) = better productivity was recognized. |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by bingbong on Sat Nov 16 10:26:16 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by Dave on Sat Nov 16 06:58:52 2013. Doesn't rationalize any of it, or make any of the victims less dead. |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Nov 16 10:28:01 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Nov 16 10:09:19 2013. How could I forget that in my rejoinder about hypocrisy? He opposes immigration now even though it's what allowed him to be born here, or even to be born at all. |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by Fred G on Sat Nov 16 10:42:24 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by AlM on Sat Nov 16 10:23:16 2013. Yeah ok, true.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by Dave on Sat Nov 16 10:48:33 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by Easy on Sat Nov 16 09:39:05 2013. Labor was needed for the German war effort. My wife's mother and aunt sewed German officer uniforms at Auschwitz. It's a skill that kept them alive until the camp was liberated. |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by Dave on Sat Nov 16 10:50:50 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by SMAZ on Sat Nov 16 09:34:53 2013. You're welcome. |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by Dave on Sat Nov 16 10:52:34 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by bingbong on Sat Nov 16 10:26:16 2013. Who said it did? My point was that there is no moral equivalence between the Holocaust and African-American slavery. |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by Dave on Sat Nov 16 10:54:59 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by bingbong on Sat Nov 16 10:18:18 2013. Can't read without a paid subscription. |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by bingbong on Sat Nov 16 10:56:25 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by AlM on Sat Nov 16 10:20:46 2013. That's hypocrisy, defined. |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Nov 16 10:56:30 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by Dave on Sat Nov 16 10:52:34 2013. Again, your point is a very fine distinction. Any prosecutor nowadays worth his salt could get a conviction for murder due to depraved indifference to human life for the average slave trader. |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by Dave on Sat Nov 16 10:58:11 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Sat Nov 16 09:50:34 2013. The Byrd is the word. |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by bingbong on Sat Nov 16 11:00:06 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by Dave on Sat Nov 16 10:52:34 2013. There is. Millions died anyway you look at it. At the end of the day, that's the entire issue. |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by Dave on Sat Nov 16 11:03:32 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by AlM on Sat Nov 16 10:56:30 2013. Not a fine point at all. Genocide is a separate crime under international law, distinct from murder and manslaughter. |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by bingbong on Sat Nov 16 11:03:58 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by Dave on Sat Nov 16 10:54:59 2013. Yikes....worked fine from the Goggle.Gogglsearch it's the second link My apologies, didn't know. That should work. |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by Dave on Sat Nov 16 11:06:07 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by bingbong on Sat Nov 16 11:00:06 2013. WABB. The Holocaust involved genocide, a distinct crime from murder under international law. The purpose of slavery was not to destroy forever the back race. The purpose of the death camps in Europe was to destroy all Jews. |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by Easy on Sat Nov 16 11:14:33 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by Dave on Sat Nov 16 11:03:32 2013. It's similar to how the deaths of those in concentration camps that died from disease and starvation weren't equivalent to those in the camps that were killed intentionally. They were just accidents. Oops. |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by Dave on Sat Nov 16 11:23:45 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by bingbong on Sat Nov 16 11:03:58 2013. Thanks. |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by bingbong on Sat Nov 16 11:24:46 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by Dave on Sat Nov 16 11:06:07 2013. There was no international law in the days of American slavery. You cannot discount the suffering and legitimize the symbol of hate, that flag, because of the era in which it occurred. Nobody is saying thing one about what happened to the Jews.There was no consideration ever taken for the lives of slaves, they worked or were left to die. That is was no as mechanical of efficient as what the Nazis did speaks more to available technology than anything more. Were they able to murder sick, old or rebellious slaves in the same manner, IMO there's little doubt they would have. It's still the same result. |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Nov 16 11:30:00 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by Dave on Sat Nov 16 10:58:11 2013. DAVE, DON'T! |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat Nov 16 11:42:46 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by Dave on Sat Nov 16 11:06:07 2013. The Holocaust involved genocide, a distinct crime from murder under international law. The purpose of slavery was not to destroy forever the back race. The purpose of the death camps in Europe was to destroy all Jews.You just gave me another reason why I should go out nd buy a Confederate flag and fly it with pride. After all, they didn't stand for genocide. Just murder. Thanks again Dave. How could I have been so wrong all this time? |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Sat Nov 16 12:24:45 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by Fred G on Sat Nov 16 02:26:52 2013. the holocaust happened in the slave trade they were death campsover 350 million did not even make it |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Sat Nov 16 12:42:19 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by Dave on Sat Nov 16 10:52:34 2013. there were millions that died during the slave trades starting from 1555 |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Sat Nov 16 12:56:27 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by AlM on Sat Nov 16 10:28:01 2013.  duly noted Mr. Toothpaste.
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Sat Nov 16 12:59:45 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by SMAZ on Sat Nov 16 10:09:23 2013.  This flag will always be number one with me. To be clear. I don't like the Confederate flag, nor do I dislike it.
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Sat Nov 16 13:01:04 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by bingbong on Sat Nov 16 11:03:58 2013. I thought you were perfect. |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Nov 16 13:01:50 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by SMAZ on Sat Nov 16 09:34:53 2013. You would, anyway. Two-face. |
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Sat Nov 16 13:03:13 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by AlM on Sat Nov 16 10:20:46 2013.  Of course I don't condone it.
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Re:WUT Confederate flag IS the flag of traitors |
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Posted by rockparkman on Sat Nov 16 13:05:25 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Sat Nov 16 12:56:27 2013. 
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Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Sat Nov 16 13:06:51 2013, in response to Re: Confederate flag was the flag of traitors, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Sat Nov 16 12:24:45 2013. I love how people exaggerate numbers. |
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Re:WUT Confederate flag IS the flag of traitors |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Sat Nov 16 13:07:25 2013, in response to Re:WUT Confederate flag IS the flag of traitors, posted by rockparkman on Sat Nov 16 13:05:25 2013. lol |
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