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| Egypt revolts (1078032) | |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Mon Jul 1 12:10:04 2013, in response to Egypt revolts, posted by AlM on Mon Jul 1 11:15:34 2013. Transition to Democracy doesn't happen overnight, and the country is going through a rough transition. The Muslim Brotherhood has shown its cards and there is a growing amount of people who won't tolerate that bullshit. If you listened to people like Olog you'd think everyone in Egypt is chanting for the Ayotollah and raping and pillaging. There are people who are demanding a real democracy, peace, and stability (both economically and government). No one with any real intelligence would think it would happen overnight. Even if you look at our Country our timeline to a point of equality for all, even had a Civil War. France, Italy, other nations had no easy roads to democracy. I look at History and it may be years, decades, but they will get there. In this age with technology you can;t suppress information. |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jul 1 12:32:15 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by ClearAspect on Mon Jul 1 12:10:04 2013. Military has given Morsi 48 hours to cool it or he's out. Bigger protests than the original. And folks here didn't have faith in the Egyptian PEOPLE. |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Mon Jul 1 12:35:49 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jul 1 12:32:15 2013. I still don't. |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jul 1 12:57:59 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jul 1 12:32:15 2013. I still don't. Iran let it happen....and there ARE educated people there. |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jul 1 13:07:16 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jul 1 12:57:59 2013. Iran has brutal repression of the people. Looks like Egypt's military isn't going to allow that. We helped out Iranian students back in 2009 with a special build of KNOS which allowed them to gather, edit and get videos out to the world. If it weren't for the "guards" it might have been different. I have a bit more faith in the Egyptians. |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jul 1 13:08:21 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by Mitch45 on Mon Jul 1 12:35:49 2013. Most of Egypt is like Turkey ... sorta the "cafeteria Catholics" of the Muslim world. Yeah, Morsi's hooked up with the Iranians and looks like that isn't working out very well for the brotherhood. :) |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Jul 1 13:21:17 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jul 1 12:57:59 2013. Egypt could still go very badly. But the Egyptians have the benefit of learning from Iran that if they don't act now in 2 years it will be too late. The educated secular Iranians of 1980 probably never imagined that the islamists would have such staying power. |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 1 13:33:36 2013, in response to Egypt revolts, posted by AlM on Mon Jul 1 11:15:34 2013. Oh please! Look at all the radicals in "Tamarod". And the "mainstream Egyptians" voted for the MB in the first place! |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 1 13:34:31 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jul 1 12:57:59 2013. Oh, they certainly did.The libs won't get it until it's too late. |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jul 1 13:47:18 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 1 13:33:36 2013. Egypt army gives Mursi 48 hours to share powerBy Asma Alsharif and Tom Perry CAIRO | Mon Jul 1, 2013 1:16pm EDT (Reuters) - Egypt's armed forces handed Islamist President Mohamed Mursi a virtual ultimatum to share power on Monday, giving feuding politicians 48 hours to compromise or have the army impose its own roadmap for the country. A dramatic military statement broadcast on state television declared the nation was in danger after millions of Egyptians took to the streets on Sunday to demand that Mursi quit and the headquarters of the ruling Muslim Brotherhood were ransacked. Since the fall of Hosni Mubarak more than two years ago as the Arab Spring revolutions took hold, the Arab world's most populous nation has remained in turmoil, arousing concern amongst allies in the West and in Israel, with which Egypt has had a peace treaty since 1979. Mursi's backers were furious at the military statement: "The age of military coups is over," said Yasser Hamza of the Brotherhood parliamentary wing. But it provoked delight among liberal leaders and crowds in Cairo's Tahrir Square, who cheered when a flight of military helicopters swooped overhead trailing national flags. Silhouetted against the sunset, it was a powerful illustration of the military's desire to be seen in tune with the people. "If the demands of the people are not realized within the defined period, it will be incumbent upon (the armed forces) ... to announce a road map for the future," chief-of-staff General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi said in the statement that was followed by patriotic music. The people had expressed their will with unprecedented clarity in the mass demonstrations and wasting more time would only increase the danger of division and strife, he said. The army said it would oversee the implementation of the roadmap it sought "with the participation of all factions and national parties, including young people", but it would not get directly involved in politics or government. Anti-Mursi demonstrators outside the presidential palace cheered the army statement, and the main opposition National Salvation Front, which has demanded a national unity government for months, applauded the military's move. The army is held in high regard, especially after it helped topple Mubarak. On Cairo's Tahrir Square, thousands were celebrating the army's move: "We want a new armed forces council to govern until new elections," said accountant Mohamed Ibrahim, 50. "The army alone supports the legitimate revolutionary will of the people." "The invitation to meet the demands of the people within the next few hours is a historic opportunity which should not be lost," said Amr Moussa, a liberal politician and former foreign minister who stood in last year's presidential election. There was no immediate reaction from the president's office. It was the second time in just over a week that the armed forces had issued a formal warning to the politicians, piling pressure on Mursi to concede power-sharing with the liberal, secular and left-wing opposition. Analysts said the military intervention could serve Mursi if he wished to compromise, but it risked giving his opponents an incentive to harden their demands, sensing support from the street and the generals, at the risk of triggering a coup. "The ultimatum has the ring of a potential coup," said Yasser al-Shimy of the International Crisis Group think-tank. "What makes it not a coup is it gives time for the politicians to sort out their differences." The second biggest Islamist group in parliament, the Nour Party, said it feared the return of army rule "in a big way". The armed forces have played an important role in Egyptian politics since army officers staged the overthrow of the monarchy in 1952. SELF-DEFENCE? After the destruction of its offices, the Brotherhood which operated underground until the overthrow of Mubarak in 2011, said it was considering how best to defend itself. Sunday's mass rallies were bigger than anything seen since the Arab Spring uprising. Smaller crowds returned to Tahrir Square and other gathering points on Monday afternoon. Five non-Brotherhood government ministers tendered their resignations from the cabinet, apparently in sympathy with the protesters, underlining a sense of isolation for the party that won a series of elections last year. "Both sides are still in their trenches," a senior European diplomat said just before the military statement. Eight people died in a night of fighting around the Brotherhood building, where guards fired on youths hurling rocks and fire bombs. A Brotherhood official said two of its members were hurt. Another eight people were killed and 731 injured in clashes around the country on Sunday, the health ministry said. The Brotherhood's official spokesman told Reuters that the attack had crossed a red line of violence and among possible responses might be to revive "self-defense committees" former during the 2011 uprising. "The people will not sit silent," Gehad El-Haddad said. Mursi's movement complained at the lack of police protection, which can only heighten its sense of being under siege from both the liberal opposition and state officialdom inherited from the old regime. NOT TALKING Liberal protest organizers, who declared Mursi ousted by people power on Sunday, said they hoped people would stay in the streets until Mursi left. Mursi, who has not appeared in person, earlier renewed offers via allies of dialogue and pledged to work with a new parliament if disputes over election rules can be ironed out. But he has so far offered no substantial concessions. The opposition does not trust the Islamist movement, which critics accuse of using a series of electoral victories to monopolize power. They want a total reset of the rules of a democracy imperfectly worked out over the past two years. The massive protests showed that the Brotherhood has not only alienated liberals and secularists by seeking to entrench Islamic rule, notably in a new constitution, but has also angered millions of Egyptians with economic mismanagement. Tourism and investment have dried up, inflation is rampant and fuel supplies are running short, with power cuts lengthening in the summer heat and motorists spending hours fuelling cars. The cost of insuring government debt against default surged to record highs. Forward contracts indicated a significant fall for the pound against the dollar. Some uniformed policemen marched among protesters in Cairo and Alexandria, chanting "the police and the people are one", and several senior officers addressed the Tahrir Square crowd. Adding to the failure to protect the Brotherhood headquarters, that cast doubt on whether Mursi could rely on the security forces to clear the streets if he gave the order. The United States and the European Union have urged Mursi to share power with the opposition, saying only a national consensus can help Egypt overcome a severe economic crisis and build democratic institutions. U.S. President Barack Obama renewed a call for Mursi and his adversaries to cooperate, just as Sisi's statement was made. The Pentagon, which funds the Egyptian army heavily, said it could not speculate on what was about to happen in Egypt. (Reporting by Asma Alsharif, Alexander Dziadosz, Shaimaa Fayed, Maggie Fick, Alastair Macdonald, Shadia Nasralla, Tom Perry, Yasmine Saleh, Paul Taylor and Patrick Werr in Cairo; Writing by Paul Taylor; Editing by Alastair Macdonald and Giles Elgood) |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Mon Jul 1 13:59:29 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by Mitch45 on Mon Jul 1 12:35:49 2013. I think you have a full right to understand, but I think we must at least as Americans, and as people who support Democracy, Freedom and Equality must be there and show support for those in Egypt who want the same things we have. It would be hypocritical to throw our beliefs away, it would be wrong to do so as well. That would be saying "we are more worthy" and that would be the beginning of the end of promoting democracy. |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Jul 1 14:09:33 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jul 1 13:47:18 2013. According to Olog, the army are all Islamists too. |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by daNd124 on Mon Jul 1 14:22:15 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by AlM on Mon Jul 1 14:09:33 2013. olog seems to think we are living in the last days. |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jul 1 14:25:16 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by AlM on Mon Jul 1 14:09:33 2013. I wish he'd make up his mind. Communists? Islamists? Terrorists? Nazis? I'm baffled. :) |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jul 1 14:45:08 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jul 1 13:07:16 2013. Iran is what happens when the people let a government like that in. They were educated in the past too, yet it happened. |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jul 1 14:45:39 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by AlM on Mon Jul 1 13:21:17 2013. Exactly my point about the Iranians. |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 1 14:48:40 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by AlM on Mon Jul 1 13:21:17 2013. But the Egyptians have the benefit of learning from Iran that if they don't act now in 2 years it will be too lateThe majority of Egyptians want things to be like Iran. Apart from Shi'a dominance, that is. You think they didn't know who and whom they were voting for last year? |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Mon Jul 1 14:51:53 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 1 14:48:40 2013. Those protestors say youre wrong |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Mon Jul 1 14:55:13 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jul 1 14:45:08 2013. The people were also angry at western influence, they saw the Shah as an extension of the US and they did not like the hypocritical nature of allowing the Shah to do what he did and the US ignored it. In simple turn the US helped in the creation of todays Iran. Had we catered toward a more democratic like country perhaps we would not have an Anti American Iran but a strong ally in the middle east. |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jul 1 14:58:08 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by ClearAspect on Mon Jul 1 14:55:13 2013. The US also created the very Egypt that just about everyone's rising up against this weekend. PNAC. Did Wolfowitz, Cheney and friends ever stop to consider the ramifications of their "Arab spring" before making it happen? :-\Fools actually thought they'd vote republican. :( |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jul 1 14:59:07 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by ClearAspect on Mon Jul 1 14:51:53 2013. Egyptian military agrees. :) |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 1 15:01:32 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by ClearAspect on Mon Jul 1 14:51:53 2013. These protesters are radicals themselves. This isn't even like Iran in 2009.(But then again, you thought Ennahda in Tunisia was "moderate" because the media told you so.) |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jul 1 15:02:58 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 1 15:01:32 2013. Anybody want to ask Wolfowitz and friends that question? After all, they made it all happen. "Democracy now ... whoops." |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Jul 1 15:08:11 2013, in response to Egypt revolts, posted by AlM on Mon Jul 1 11:15:34 2013. Sadly, these people have little experience with democracy. I wonder what, if anything will change in Iran with the new president? |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Mon Jul 1 15:12:15 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Jul 1 15:08:11 2013. Nothing will, LOL thats the biggest misconception, the Guardian Council holds the real power in Iran, the "President" is just a figurehead. It's just the former president had a Mouth that couldn't be easily shut. This process is enough to giving the feelings of democracy while in fact its not at all. Just enough to keep the people's mouth shut. |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Mon Jul 1 15:13:06 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 1 15:01:32 2013. Never said that, and again you are completely wrong. |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Mon Jul 1 15:19:54 2013, in response to Egypt revolts, posted by AlM on Mon Jul 1 11:15:34 2013. turkey...syria....michigan.. |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Mon Jul 1 16:14:15 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by ClearAspect on Mon Jul 1 13:59:29 2013. I'm not as sure as you are that the Egyptians want democracy. We've already heard numerous times from various Muslim clerics that democracy is evil and runs counter to Islam. If the Egyptian people were that interested in democracy and equal rights, et al, why did they put the Muslim Brotherhood in charge in the first place?In my opinion, the only reason why the Egyptians are again revolting (insert joke here) is that Morsi has not solved Egypt's economic and social problems quickly enough for their taste. The Egyptians would put a Halal meat sandwich into power (no ham sandwiches in Islam) if it meant that social ills would be eased. Democracy is not high on the wish list. |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jul 1 16:15:16 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by ClearAspect on Mon Jul 1 12:10:04 2013. If you think this weekend's developments are a good thing, I have bad news for you. If Egyptians are going to throw out their governments every 12 months if they fail to meet expectations, nothing good is going to happen there, even if that is the "will of the people." |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jul 1 16:16:50 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by Mitch45 on Mon Jul 1 16:14:15 2013. FALSE! The people who protest in Tahrir Square are not the people who vote for Morsi. |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jul 1 16:22:30 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jul 1 16:16:50 2013. And the Muslim Brotherhood offices are still burning. :) |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Mon Jul 1 16:36:57 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by ClearAspect on Mon Jul 1 14:55:13 2013. Yup....Jimmy Carter nightmare. |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Mon Jul 1 17:19:32 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jul 1 16:15:16 2013. Come on you and everyone else knows that in the end this transition wasnt going to be easy and we should be pleased that muslim brotherhood is now becoming an enemy. With islamists on the defensive in turkey and egypt it should be a positive sign. |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by RockParkMan on Mon Jul 1 17:59:03 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jul 1 12:32:15 2013. They don't want to mix it with the IDF. |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jul 1 18:24:25 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by RockParkMan on Mon Jul 1 17:59:03 2013. I'm betting they're worried about their next paycheck. :) |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Mon Jul 1 18:29:09 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jul 1 18:24:25 2013. BINGO. Listen at the end of the day, most of us just want food on the table, and knowing they're going to get their next check. |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jul 1 18:58:08 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by ClearAspect on Mon Jul 1 18:29:09 2013. Ideologies are great when you have spare time. Otherwise, you're concerned about just getting through the day. Funny how that works just about everywhere. |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 1 19:23:28 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by Mitch45 on Mon Jul 1 16:14:15 2013. This isn't a revolt. The media really wishes it was, though. |
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Egypt revolts: new wave of sexual assaults hits |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 1 19:36:57 2013, in response to Egypt revolts, posted by AlM on Mon Jul 1 11:15:34 2013. Associated Press
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Egypt revolts: Muslim Brotherhood rejects army's 48-hour ultimatum |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 1 19:46:22 2013, in response to Egypt revolts, posted by AlM on Mon Jul 1 11:15:34 2013. INN
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jul 1 19:51:55 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 1 19:23:28 2013. So people are dying in a choreographed presentation? |
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TRUTH FROM OLOG: Re: Egypt revolts: new wave of sexual assaults hits |
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Posted by RockParkMan on Mon Jul 1 20:18:00 2013, in response to Egypt revolts: new wave of sexual assaults hits, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 1 19:36:57 2013. Even a broken clock is correct twice a day. |
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MORE TRUTH FROM OLOG: Re: Egypt revolts: M.B. rejects army's 48-hour ultimatum |
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Posted by RockParkMan on Mon Jul 1 20:19:48 2013, in response to Egypt revolts: Muslim Brotherhood rejects army's 48-hour ultimatum, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 1 19:46:22 2013. I hope the military clamps down like Stalin. |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Mon Jul 1 20:55:47 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jul 1 19:51:55 2013. Only on Olog's TV in his cave. |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Mon Jul 1 20:59:10 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by daNd124 on Mon Jul 1 14:22:15 2013. It seems Olog is crazy since he lives in a cave in Pennsylvania. |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Jul 1 21:25:48 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by ClearAspect on Mon Jul 1 12:10:04 2013. People got tired of the Republicans in Egypt too.In places like that, just like in Turkey back when it wasn't ready for democratic primetime, the military is their only hope for a semblance of secularism, normalcy, stability, peace with their neighbors and incremental progressive reform. |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Jul 1 21:43:31 2013, in response to Egypt revolts, posted by AlM on Mon Jul 1 11:15:34 2013. I wonder if the mayor of Cairo banned sparklers? |
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Re: Egypt revolts |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jul 1 21:51:12 2013, in response to Re: Egypt revolts, posted by SMAZ on Mon Jul 1 21:43:31 2013. I believe he's handing them out. :) |
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Re: MORE TRUTH FROM OLOG: Re: Egypt revolts: M.B. rejects army's 48-hour ultimatum |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Mon Jul 1 22:17:39 2013, in response to MORE TRUTH FROM OLOG: Re: Egypt revolts: M.B. rejects army's 48-hour ultimatum, posted by RockParkMan on Mon Jul 1 20:19:48 2013. Then you are no supporter of american values. |
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