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| (1051975) | |
Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth |
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Posted by daNd124 on Thu Apr 11 10:34:25 2013 www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-10/immigrants-on-the-dole-let-s-debunk-that-myth-again.htmlA perennial objection to relaxing the border with Mexico is that the U.S. has to stop poor, low- skilled foreigners from overburdening its social-welfare system. In fact, the opposite is the case: Immigrants help protect this safety net for everyone. Yet, the misperceptions are deep-seated. According to a Reason-Rupe poll released in March, almost 45 percent of Americans -- Republicans, Democrats and independents -- believe that immigrants come to the U.S. primarily for government benefits. The Heritage Foundation and Senator Jeff Sessions, an Alabama Republican who had led the fight against immigration reform in Congress, are trying hard to keep this mistaken belief alive, as the political tide goes against them. Sessions has repeatedly accused the Barack Obama administration of “defying federal laws” and letting foreigners in without first showing they could support themselves, and the Heritage Foundation is preparing to release an updated version of a controversial study it did several years ago offering its own evidence of this claim. Sessions pointed to State Department figures showing that “only 0.0033 percent of net applications for admission to the United States” were denied in 2011 on grounds that the applicant might become a public charge. The statistic, however, demonstrated the opposite of what he claimed it did. The visa-rejection rate is so low because the system is set up to prevent people who are likely to become wards of the state from applying in the first place. Green Cards For the most part, foreigners who want a green card need a company or blood relative to sponsor them and accept responsibility for them. Of course, green-card holders could lose their jobs or relatives and end up on welfare. The dearth of proof for the view that people flock to the U.S. for welfare is long-standing. In fact, according to the Agriculture Department, which administers food stamps, Latinos in recent years have increasingly flocked to states such as Tennessee, Arkansas, Alabama, Texas and the Carolinas, which have stingy benefits and plentiful jobs, instead of to traditional gateways, such as New York and California, which have relatively generous programs. The 10 states that experienced the largest percentage increase in their foreign-born population from 2000 to 2009 spent far less on public assistance per capita compared with the 10 states with the slowest-growing foreign-born populations. Of course, even if immigrants don’t come to the U.S. to live off the welfare state doesn’t mean they don’t end up doing so. The best evidence for this claim came in the 2007 Heritage Foundation study, which found that even though immigrants have been barred since 1996 from receiving federal means-tested benefits, their households still obtain about $20,000 more in benefits and services (such as schools and emergency medical care) than they pay in taxes. The study estimated that these costs imposed in 2004 a net burden of about $90 billion annually and a whopping $1 trillion over a decade. This would be cause for concern -- if those numbers were the whole story. The study was criticized for counting government spending on the (American-born) children of immigrants but then ignoring the taxes these offspring paid when they grew up. By that standard, most middle-income families in the U.S. with three or more children in public schools would be a net burden. There were even bigger questions about the study. By its own admission, it considered only the tax contributions of low-skilled immigrants, not what they contribute to the economy as a whole. Heritage has said it will release new cost estimates, but these numbers should be met with skepticism. Everyone Benefits State-level studies that have taken both into account consistently find that the economic contributions of these immigrants dwarf their fiscal costs. A 2006 analysis by the Texas comptroller estimated that low-skilled unauthorized workers cost the state treasury $504 million more than they paid in taxes in 2005. Without them, however, the state’s economy would have shrunk by 2.1 percent, or $17.7 billion, as the competitive edge of Texas businesses diminished. Likewise, a 2006 study by the Kenan Institute at the University of North Carolina found that although Hispanic immigrants imposed a net $61 million cost on the state budget, they contributed $9 billion to the gross state product. The Heritage Foundation study also implied that a homegrown working class would be cheaper for the country because households headed by low-skilled immigrants consumed $10,000 more in government services than those headed by Americans. The trouble is that the study compared the welfare use of low- skilled immigrant households with average American households, rather than with low-skilled American households. In comparing welfare use by immigrants with that of Americans in the same socioeconomic stratum, a different picture emerges, as a study by Leighton Ku and Brian Bruen of George Washington University for the Cato Institute found recently. Low-skilled foreigners, including adults and their U.S.- born children, were generally less likely than Americans to receive public benefits, such as from Medicaid, the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program and Supplemental Security Income. This is partly because many adults are in the U.S. illegally or on temporary visas or haven’t held a green card long enough to qualify for most means-tested benefits besides emergency health care. But the value of benefits they receive is usually lower, too. “The combination of lower average utilization and smaller average benefits indicates that the overall cost of public benefits is substantially less for low-income non-citizen immigrants than for comparable native-born adults and children,” the Cato study concluded. Shrinking Underclass Restrictionists regard the 1990s as the decade of mass migration, when immigrants supposedly flooded in and threatened American jobs and wages. But the country had low unemployment during many of those years. More to the point, the size of the underclass shrank overall. While the number of immigrant households living in poverty increased by 194,000 from 1995 to 2004, the number of American households below the poverty line declined by 675,000. This suggests that as foreigners moved into the lower class, they pushed more native-born people into the middle class. How? Economists Giovanni Peri and Gianmarco Ottaviano’s 2008 study showed that low-skilled immigrants don’t take away jobs from native high-school dropouts. Instead, they open better opportunities for them. The presence of non-English-speaking foreigners makes physical skills more plentiful relative to demand, and language and other cultural skills scarcer. Hence even the most basic acculturation of the native-born starts commanding a higher premium in the labor market. Restrictionists are trying to torpedo immigration reform by scapegoating poor foreigners for the overextended U.S. welfare state and the country’s job troubles. If these forces succeed, all Americans will pay the price. (Shikha Dalmia, a contributor to Bloomberg View, is a Detroit-based senior analyst at the Reason Foundation. The opinions expressed are her own.) |
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Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth |
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Posted by SMAZ on Thu Apr 11 13:06:57 2013, in response to Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth, posted by daNd124 on Thu Apr 11 10:34:25 2013. I've been saying this from time immemorial.Most immigrants are not even eligible for any kind of public assistance. |
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Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Apr 11 14:12:39 2013, in response to Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth, posted by SMAZ on Thu Apr 11 13:06:57 2013. But many many many are getting it. I base this on my real life experiences in Queens. I never even knew what a Benefit Card was until I was around the Russians.The Russians are all jacked up on benefits. Lots of immigrants get the Benefit card. The most expensive way is a fake marriage. Another way is to have kids. If you live under poverty line and have kids, NY will give you a Benefit for your kids and the parents. The average immigrant laborer, who comes illegally, has no wife or kids in the States, is not on the dole. |
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Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Apr 11 18:48:29 2013, in response to Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Apr 11 14:12:39 2013. But many many many are getting it. I base this on my real life experiences in Queens. I never even knew what a Benefit Card was until I was around the Russians.The Russians are all jacked up on benefits. Lots of immigrants get the Benefit card. The most expensive way is a fake marriage. Another way is to have kids. If you live under poverty line and have kids, NY will give you a Benefit for your kids and the parents. They're all US citizens. |
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Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 11 18:52:25 2013, in response to Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth, posted by daNd124 on Thu Apr 11 10:34:25 2013. They got apologists for illegal immigrants at Reason.com now?I'd believe Gateway Pundit over this Dalmia hack, really. |
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Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Thu Apr 11 20:49:43 2013, in response to Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth, posted by daNd124 on Thu Apr 11 10:34:25 2013. lol |
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Re:" Immigrants" on the Dole? That’s a Myth |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Thu Apr 11 20:50:53 2013, in response to Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 11 18:52:25 2013. the subject line is misleading when the article talks about people "believing" that illegals run over for benefits, and the subject line is about Indians and Arabs on H1B1 visas who make plenty of money.You won't find many illegals not on some form of dole if you ask around. |
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Re: "Immigrants" on the Dole? That’s a Myth |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 11 21:33:26 2013, in response to Re:" Immigrants" on the Dole? That’s a Myth, posted by orange blossom special on Thu Apr 11 20:50:53 2013. Like I said, yellow journalism. |
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Re: ''Immigrants'' on the Dole? That’s a Myth |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 11 21:40:17 2013, in response to Re: "Immigrants" on the Dole? That’s a Myth, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 11 21:33:26 2013. Indeed ... republicans have been peddling that newspaper for HOW long now? |
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Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth |
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Posted by TonyG on Thu Apr 11 21:49:53 2013, in response to Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth, posted by SMAZ on Thu Apr 11 13:06:57 2013. I've tried to argue this too but it usually falls on deaf ears. |
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Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Thu Apr 11 21:56:17 2013, in response to Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Apr 11 14:12:39 2013. Foreigners are the root of all evil. |
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Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth |
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Posted by daNd124 on Thu Apr 11 21:57:39 2013, in response to Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth, posted by chicagomotorman on Thu Apr 11 21:56:17 2013. spoken like a true Nazi. |
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Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Thu Apr 11 22:26:22 2013, in response to Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth, posted by daNd124 on Thu Apr 11 21:57:39 2013. Spoken like a true American. |
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Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth |
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Posted by daNd124 on Thu Apr 11 22:28:14 2013, in response to Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth, posted by chicagomotorman on Thu Apr 11 22:26:22 2013. thanks to people who thought like America refused to allow millions to escape the Nazis. |
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Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth |
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Posted by daNd124 on Thu Apr 11 22:28:29 2013, in response to Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth, posted by chicagomotorman on Thu Apr 11 22:26:22 2013. thanks to people who thought like you America refused to allow millions to escape the Nazis. |
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Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Thu Apr 11 22:30:36 2013, in response to Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth, posted by daNd124 on Thu Apr 11 22:28:29 2013. I suppose you support the 1965 Hart Cellar Act? |
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Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Apr 11 23:29:31 2013, in response to Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth, posted by daNd124 on Thu Apr 11 22:28:29 2013. The scumbag shows his true colors. |
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Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Apr 11 23:30:14 2013, in response to Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth, posted by daNd124 on Thu Apr 11 21:57:39 2013. Literally. It was their principal philosophy. And this SHJ SCUM falls for it. |
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Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Apr 11 23:44:04 2013, in response to Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth, posted by daNd124 on Thu Apr 11 22:28:29 2013. do you think the US was prepared to take millions of refugees? |
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Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Apr 12 00:04:44 2013, in response to Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth, posted by chicagomotorman on Thu Apr 11 21:56:17 2013. Uh, no. |
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Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth |
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Posted by SMAZ on Fri Apr 12 02:27:21 2013, in response to Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth, posted by chicagomotorman on Thu Apr 11 21:56:17 2013. Foreigners are the root of all evil. yeah, my parents and my brother are some evil motherfuckers. |
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Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth |
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Posted by SMAZ on Fri Apr 12 02:36:43 2013, in response to Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth, posted by chicagomotorman on Thu Apr 11 22:30:36 2013. I suppose you supported restrictions against allowing too many foreigners in the 1930's and 40's.Driven a Ford lately? 
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Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth |
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Posted by SMAZ on Fri Apr 12 02:37:57 2013, in response to Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Apr 11 23:30:14 2013. It boggles the mind how embodies what he hates. |
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Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Apr 12 07:59:38 2013, in response to Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth, posted by chicagomotorman on Thu Apr 11 22:26:22 2013. Racist xenophobe.Many of us here happen to be very closely related to foreigners whom we greatly respect, and who have done a lot more for this country than you have. |
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Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Apr 12 08:00:15 2013, in response to Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth, posted by SMAZ on Fri Apr 12 02:27:21 2013. My feeling exactly, except for not having a brother but sisters instead. |
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Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Apr 12 08:19:31 2013, in response to Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Apr 11 23:44:04 2013. No. But they could have managed a lot more than they accepted. |
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Chicagomotorman's Common Sense Immigration Reform |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Fri Apr 12 10:26:35 2013, in response to Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth, posted by SMAZ on Fri Apr 12 02:36:43 2013. 1. 40 year moratorium on immigration2. 40 year moratorium on naturalized citizenships 3. English as the official language of the United States 4. No more guest workers, foreign exchange students, visas, etc. 5. No more anchor babies 6. All anchor babies citizenships to be revoked 7. Anyone who is not a U.S. citizen, including ancor babies, are to be deported immediatly 8. After the 40 year immigration moratorium, no more than 100,000 immigrants to be permitted annually, first come, first serve, with a $25,000 entry fee, which will rise annually commensurate with inflation 9. After the 40 year naturalized citizenship moratorium, limmited U.S. citizenships, be fluent in English, and pay a $75,000 application fee, which will rise annually commensurate with inflaton 10. Foreign tourists can visit the United States, but their visit shall not exceed 28 days, and will be pre-screened |
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Re: Chicagomotorman's Common Sense Immigration Reform |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Apr 12 10:31:33 2013, in response to Chicagomotorman's Common Sense Immigration Reform, posted by chicagomotorman on Fri Apr 12 10:26:35 2013. As an anchor baby, I simply say take your proposal and shove it. I've done more for this country than you ever have, and so have my parents. |
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Re: Chicagomotorman's Common Sense Immigration Reform |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Fri Apr 12 10:31:56 2013, in response to Chicagomotorman's Common Sense Immigration Reform, posted by chicagomotorman on Fri Apr 12 10:26:35 2013. YOU MAY AS WELL KILL AMERICA WITH THOSE RANTS. AND WHY DID YOU STOP AT 40? IS THAT YOUR FAVORITE NUMBER? JUST OUT OF CURIOUSITY, LET SAY THIS WAS LIKE 1800 IN AMERICA AND SOMEONE SAID WHAT YOU SAID ABOVE, HOW WOULD YOUR ANCESTORS EVER GET TO AMERICA IN ORDER TO PRODUCE chicagomotorman AT SOME POINT IN HISTORY? |
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Re: Chicagomotorman's Common Sense Immigration Reform |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Fri Apr 12 10:32:23 2013, in response to Re: Chicagomotorman's Common Sense Immigration Reform, posted by AlM on Fri Apr 12 10:31:33 2013. +1 |
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Re: Chicagomotorman's Common Sense Immigration Reform |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Fri Apr 12 10:33:09 2013, in response to Re: Chicagomotorman's Common Sense Immigration Reform, posted by AlM on Fri Apr 12 10:31:33 2013. Chicagomotorman just hates everyone that doesn't look like him. |
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Re: Chicagomotorman's Common Sense Immigration Reform |
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Posted by Railman718 on Fri Apr 12 10:36:10 2013, in response to Chicagomotorman's Common Sense Immigration Reform, posted by chicagomotorman on Fri Apr 12 10:26:35 2013. Wow...Just effing wow... |
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Re: Chicagomotorman's Common Sense Immigration Reform |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Apr 12 10:47:31 2013, in response to Re: Chicagomotorman's Common Sense Immigration Reform, posted by streetcarman1 on Fri Apr 12 10:33:09 2013. Hey, I probably look a bit like him. I'm a middle aged white guy with Jewish ancestry. I just happen to be an anchor baby. |
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Re: Chicagomotorman's Common Sense Immigration Reform |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Fri Apr 12 10:50:36 2013, in response to Re: Chicagomotorman's Common Sense Immigration Reform, posted by AlM on Fri Apr 12 10:47:31 2013. He is just fucking jealous that he wasn't born with a silver spoon in his mouth, that's all. |
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Re: Chicagomotorman's Common Sense Immigration Reform |
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Posted by Fred G on Fri Apr 12 10:57:55 2013, in response to Chicagomotorman's Common Sense Immigration Reform, posted by chicagomotorman on Fri Apr 12 10:26:35 2013. LOL, Hitler is smiling. Schön.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Chicagomotorman's Common Sense Immigration Reform |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Apr 12 11:01:25 2013, in response to Re: Chicagomotorman's Common Sense Immigration Reform, posted by streetcarman1 on Fri Apr 12 10:50:36 2013. I wasn't either. But my parents worked hard and so did my sisters and I. |
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Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth |
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Posted by kew gardens teleport on Fri Apr 12 11:05:24 2013, in response to Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Apr 11 23:44:04 2013. There's enough space in the plains states. |
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Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth |
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Posted by kew gardens teleport on Fri Apr 12 11:06:23 2013, in response to Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth, posted by chicagomotorman on Thu Apr 11 21:56:17 2013. Foreigners are the root of all evil.Does that make you the root of all evil when you go abroad? |
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Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth |
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Posted by kew gardens teleport on Fri Apr 12 11:07:26 2013, in response to Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Apr 11 14:12:39 2013. If you live under poverty lineYou think people do that out of choice? |
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Re: Chicagomotorman's Common Sense Immigration Reform |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Fri Apr 12 11:11:13 2013, in response to Re: Chicagomotorman's Common Sense Immigration Reform, posted by AlM on Fri Apr 12 11:01:25 2013. He's afraid some immigrant would take away his job as a professional couch potato. |
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Re: ''Immigrants'' on the Dole? That’s a Myth |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Fri Apr 12 11:17:36 2013, in response to Re: "Immigrants" on the Dole? That’s a Myth, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 11 21:33:26 2013. "....yellow journalism"Another one of your racial slurs? |
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Re: ''Immigrants'' on the Dole? That’s a Myth |
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Posted by daNd124 on Fri Apr 12 11:22:29 2013, in response to Re: ''Immigrants'' on the Dole? That’s a Myth, posted by streetcarman1 on Fri Apr 12 11:17:36 2013. it's not a racial slut although he is using it incorrectly. |
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Re: ''Immigrants'' on the Dole? That’s a Myth |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Fri Apr 12 11:27:40 2013, in response to Re: ''Immigrants'' on the Dole? That’s a Myth, posted by daNd124 on Fri Apr 12 11:22:29 2013. With Olog-hai...you never can tell. :) |
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Re: Chicagomotorman's Common Sense Immigration Reform |
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Posted by daNd124 on Fri Apr 12 11:47:52 2013, in response to Chicagomotorman's Common Sense Immigration Reform, posted by chicagomotorman on Fri Apr 12 10:26:35 2013. sounds a lot like this:1. We demand the union of all Germans in a Great Germany on the basis of the principle of self-determination of all peoples. 2. We demand that the German people have rights equal to those of other nations; and that the Peace Treaties of Versailles and St. Germain shall be abrogated. 3. We demand land and territory (colonies) for the maintenance of our people and the settlement of our surplus population. 4. Only those who are our fellow countrymen can become citizens. Only those who have German blood, regardless of creed, can be our countrymen. Hence no Jew can be a countryman. 5. Those who are not citizens must live in Germany as foreigners and must be subject to the law of aliens. 6. The right to choose the government and determine the laws of the State shall belong only to citizens. We therefore demand that no public office, of whatever nature, whether in the central government, the province, or the municipality, shall be held by anyone who is not a citizen. We wage war against the corrupt parliamentary administration whereby men are appointed to posts by favor of the party without regard to character and fitness. 7. We demand that the State shall above all undertake to ensure that every citizen shall have the possibility of living decently and earning a livelihood. If it should not be possible to feed the whole population, then aliens (non-citizens) must be expelled from the Reich. 8. Any further immigration of non-Germans must be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans who have entered Germany since August 2, 1914, shall be compelled to leave the Reich immediately. 9. All citizens must possess equal rights and duties. 10. The first duty of every citizen must be to work mentally or physically. No individual shall do any work that offends against the interest of the community to the benefit of all. |
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Re: Chicagomotorman's Common Sense Immigration Reform |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Apr 12 12:06:24 2013, in response to Chicagomotorman's Common Sense Immigration Reform, posted by chicagomotorman on Fri Apr 12 10:26:35 2013. FUCK YOU FASCIST! |
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Re: Chicagomotorman's Common Sense Immigration Reform |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Apr 12 12:11:16 2013, in response to Re: Chicagomotorman's Common Sense Immigration Reform, posted by daNd124 on Fri Apr 12 11:47:52 2013. It's sad how he doesn't realize it. |
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Re: Chicagomotorman's Common Sense Immigration Reform |
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Posted by kew gardens teleport on Fri Apr 12 12:17:18 2013, in response to Chicagomotorman's Common Sense Immigration Reform, posted by chicagomotorman on Fri Apr 12 10:26:35 2013. 2. 40 year moratorium on naturalized citizenshipsWhy stop at that? Why not make it retrospective to 1607? |
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Re: Chicagomotorman's Common Sense Immigration Reform |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Fri Apr 12 12:18:32 2013, in response to Re: Chicagomotorman's Common Sense Immigration Reform, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Apr 12 12:06:24 2013. Agreed |
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Re: Chicagomotorman's Common Sense Immigration Reform |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Apr 12 12:20:57 2013, in response to Re: Chicagomotorman's Common Sense Immigration Reform, posted by kew gardens teleport on Fri Apr 12 12:17:18 2013. That doesn't meet his criteria. It would revoke the citizenship of too many white people. |
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Re: Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 12 12:59:42 2013, in response to Immigrants on the Dole? That’s a Myth, posted by daNd124 on Thu Apr 11 10:34:25 2013. - Food Stamps- Public school - Medicaid Welfare is hard to get. The above three are "doled" out with little oversight. All of it comes out of my pocket. Fuck your debunking. |
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