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| Re: OP-ED: What Americans keep ignoring about Finland's school success (895775) | |||
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Re: OP-ED: What Americans keep ignoring about Finland's school success |
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Posted by Concourse Express on Thu Jan 5 16:29:08 2012, in response to Re: OP-ED: What Americans keep ignoring about Finland's school success, posted by JayMan on Thu Jan 5 14:45:48 2012. So basically what you're saying is that we need a better way of identifying gifted students that happen to be in impoverished districts and getting them out of there.This is almost what I'm saying; however I still leave room for the possibility that some gifted cats from said impoverished districts may come back and help (or at least try) to turn things around. Might be the idealist in me though... While IQ tests are somewhat less reliable in young children (since the heritability of IQ increases with age), bright children in a low-IQ background will stand out. I'm in favor of setting up specialized middle schools, like Bronx Science and the rest, only at the middle school level. In addition to these, gifted programs within existing middle schools is something I'd favor - especially if these specialized middle schools do not meet the entire demand of gifted middle schoolers. That's a matter of convincing government to fund education more and stop wasting money on NCLB and Race to the Top and all that rubbish. One can only hope. Actually, oddly enough, people in lower SES's are in poorer health only partly because of poorer access to healthcare (though in the States especially this is a major problem), they are in poorer health also because they have low IQs and are less able to properly take care of themselves. With all of the aspects of life (SES, education, health, etc) that are correlated with IQ, does this mean that such individuals are up the creek? I'd like to think not (I know, it's the idealist in me again, but I don't favor policies which leave such people up the creek). I suspect that this is due to both the American education system and the high standard of living in American society. As well, it's hard to know what the test taking attitude is all these countries, as while it's not so easy to score higher on tests, it's very easy to score lower. This is true (at least anecdotally), as I've experienced such misfortune (namely, getting lower scores on tests due to stupid mistakes) several times in the course of my education. However, I wonder if one's attitude toward tests contributes significantly to the results thereof... As a expat. of the South Bronx myself, I can tell you that the Bronx is poor not because of a lack of opportunities, but because of a lack of ability. It would not surprise me if the average IQ of the population south of Fordham Rd is in the 70s, especially when I was growing up there. As much as I'd like to think this isn't true based on my being born, raised, and still living in The Bronx (and knowing some smart individuals here), the way some cats behave and comport themselves unfortunately supports a low-IQ assumption (I sure hope it ain't that low)... What's more insidious, the more ways out you give the smart kids, the worse off the neighborhood becomes. Draining impoverished areas of their smartest members only lowers the genetic potential of the people who remain, further consigning them to poverty. Which is why community-based incentives should be encouraged. (I would say politics, but the fact that such has become quite a circus makes me hesitant.) While gifted members of a community are under no obligation to "give back," when they do (whether through volunteer work, forming local organizations or groups specializing in areas such as education and health, or another way), it can help a community emerge from the hell of poverty. Of course, the flip side is that you need a level of understanding within; if no one can grasp the benefits of these initiatives, programs, etc. there's not much hope left IMO. Though I can tell you from my visits there that the S. Bronx is far better than it was in its darkest days in the 70s, 80s and 90s, but I suspect that this is due to the mass imprisonments that resulted from the police crackdown of the Giuliani era. Gentrification is also playing a part in the turnaround, though I suppose you could argue that this crackdown "planted the seed." *** As an aside, in the thread you linked to, I must highlight something you said in one of your responses: In any case, small differences in average IQ doesn't rule out larger differences in typical behavioral traits. Native Americans, and by extension Latinos, who have higher IQ's than American Blacks (~90 vs 85, respectively) still perform much more poorly than their IQ's alone would suggest (even considering mostly Mestizo Latinos like Mexicans, as opposed to more Mulatto ones of the Caribbean). Aside from what we've discussed in this thread, why do you think this is? Is it solely other biological/genetic factors or are other environmental/societal forces at play? my blog |
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