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| (218850) | |
1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by mcorivervsaf on Fri Dec 31 11:29:01 2010 Once again, I apologize if this was posted up here before, but here's another video: |
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| (218852) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Fri Dec 31 11:38:42 2010, in response to 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by mcorivervsaf on Fri Dec 31 11:29:01 2010. Wow, thanks for this video - I haven't seen it. It's quite interesting to learn that the Grumman problem wasn't limited to just New York, but to LA and Chicago as well.Interesting how GM and Grumman Flxible were the only two transit bus manufacturers in the US. Not surprising, but interesting considering the transit bus manufacturer environment today. |
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| (218853) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by mcorivervsaf on Fri Dec 31 11:49:00 2010, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Fri Dec 31 11:38:42 2010. You're welcome! I believe Houston grounded their Grummans as well! I wasn't even two years old when the MTA pulled out all of their Grummans from NYC in 1984! When I lived in Flushing, years ago, LI Bus (then MSBA) had Grummans as well, but those were not a problem! As for GM & Grumman, who'd a thunk those two companies wound be out of the transit bus business today? |
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| (218854) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Dec 31 11:52:52 2010, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Fri Dec 31 11:38:42 2010. Gillig had just introduced an alternative the previous year, and some agencies had turned to the then-Flyer Industries and Ontario Bus Industries. |
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| (218855) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Dec 31 11:55:15 2010, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by mcorivervsaf on Fri Dec 31 11:49:00 2010. All of the Grummans built until that time were parked (2,656 in all). Long Island Bus' 8-cylinder Grummans were built in 1981 (750-799 for RVC and 925-999 for Mitchel Field). |
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| (218857) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Fri Dec 31 11:57:33 2010, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Dec 31 11:52:52 2010. Ah, the "foreign" buses. |
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| (218860) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Dec 31 12:01:50 2010, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Fri Dec 31 11:57:33 2010. The Gillig Phantom was also completely new at the time. |
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| (218861) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by mcorivervsaf on Fri Dec 31 12:02:06 2010, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Dec 31 11:55:15 2010. Ah, I see. I used to see a LOT of those LIB/MSBA Grummans in Queens, most particularly at Main Street/Flushing when I was young. How long did they last over there? I presume to the early-to-mid 90's. |
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| (218862) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Dec 31 12:06:35 2010, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by mcorivervsaf on Fri Dec 31 12:02:06 2010. In the early 1990s, Long Island Bus' fleet was Gilligs, Orions, and Grumman/Flxible, with a handful of New Looks sprinkled in.The Grummans were replaced by the buses that ended up numbered 1400-1525 and 1806-1821. The Gilligs and 1989 Orions along with the Orion 2s, got replaced by 1526-1632. Most of the remaining diesel Orions were replaced then by the other 1600s, but some stuck around until the 1700s came in. |
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| (218865) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by futurekbarticop on Fri Dec 31 13:25:55 2010, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Dec 31 12:06:35 2010. LIB kept the grummans well into the 2000's I remember seeing PA1037 on the N6 in 2005-06. Those buses were kept in the reserve fleet. |
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| (218891) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by WayneJay on Fri Dec 31 17:36:26 2010, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by futurekbarticop on Fri Dec 31 13:25:55 2010. The MSBA 1000 series were actually Flxible Metro. Their Grumman 870s were in the 700 & 900 series. |
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| (218893) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by WayneJay on Fri Dec 31 17:46:41 2010, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Dec 31 11:55:15 2010. It was 2656 buses that had been delivered and had to be returned to Grumman for the A-Frame retrofit. That included 637 NYCTA buses (of the 837-bus order). The buses that were built but not delivered were kept at the factory to get their A-Frames retrofitted. For NYCTA, the remaining 200 Grumman 870 buses were the group that had wheelchair lifts (NYCTA 453-552 & MABSTOA 811-910). In NYC the Grumman Flxibles for the DOT PBLs were also delivered later with the A-Frame retrofit in place. |
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| (218900) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Fri Dec 31 18:54:57 2010, in response to 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by mcorivervsaf on Fri Dec 31 11:29:01 2010. THANK YOU my friend!!!! A late but welcome Christmas present to me.My favorite buses, a bad publicity rap, a bounce back even better than before, and the final NYC fiasco. Of course, AMGeneral dropped out, Renault & Hino died a quick death, MAN survived, somewhat. Foreign intervention??? Never happen (yuk, yuk)! Let's see. Neoplan, all the Canadian breeds, Ikarus/ NABI. Wow, 30 years ago and still seems like yesterday. Thanx again for that; EYE had not seen it. jrc |
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| (218901) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Dec 31 21:04:43 2010, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by futurekbarticop on Fri Dec 31 13:25:55 2010. 1037 was a Metro-A. |
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| (218902) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Dec 31 21:05:41 2010, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by WayneJay on Fri Dec 31 17:46:41 2010. Thanks for that correction. |
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| (218903) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Fri Dec 31 21:08:06 2010, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Fri Dec 31 11:38:42 2010. Yep, I lived through the Grumman crisis in L. A., my then home route (line 871 L. A.-LAX-Redondo Beach) operated out of SCRTD division 5, which had 55 of RTD's 230 1980 Grumman 870s (7640-7694). RTD didn't resort to school buses like Chicago (although successor agency LACMTA would do so on some routes during the brief 1994 strike), they just cancelled a bunch of runs. One of then on the Monday after the grounding was the 871 tripper (bus run10) I ususally caught to go to school at USC, so I had to pile onto the follower (BR 1), manned by a 1970 Flxible New Look. The only thing that saved RTD (somewhat) was the fact that they had started to put the first of 940 GMC RTS-04s the previous week. The RTS originally went to Div. 18, so older buses were transferred from that division to the affected Grumman divisions (Div. 1,3,5 and 15). I remember seeing 1967 Flxible 6100, formerly of division 18 on a D5 route, and I think some 7200s (1973 Flx new look). In fact, the very last Old Look bus I rode was 2167 on that same 871-10 tripper in the spring of 1981. By then, division 5 had started to get their RTS. The Grummans started returning in May of 1981. Even with the A-frames repaired, the Grummans were never popular w/ RTD, who started retiring them in 1990, 2 years before they were life-expired (they sold 9 that year to Gardena Municipal Bus Lines, which renumbered them 790-798 and used them solely (AFAIK) in school tripper service). A few were still running when MTA replaced RTD on 4/1/93, but they were retired shortly thereafter (ironically, their replacements were the 1992-93 Methanol powered TMC RTS-06s, which also had issues and ended up having their engines replaced with DDEC 6V92 engines in 1999-2000. The last of those were retired in 2009.The only other agencies in the L. A. area that had Grummans were OCTD (now OCTA) and Santa Monica Municial Bus Lines (now Big Blue Bus). I first rode a Grumman on SMMBL line 5 in December 1979. I think they kept their Grummans (47 in all) in service, but retired them in the mid-80s. Surprisingly, they received 15 more (4748-4764) in 1981, those had DDEC 6V92 instead of the 8V71 that the 1979 models had. OCTD got rid of their Grummans in the mid-80s as well, IIRC. I remember seeing one in an episode of Hunter in 1988. There was another one parked for some time behind the Scientology building on Hollywood Blvd. I think some of the OCTD 870s eventually made their way to SunBus in the Coachella Valley (along with some Gillig Phantoms and Flxible New Looks, the New Looks were also ex-OCTD, not sure about the Gilligs, those may have been ordered new by SunBus. Those all ran until 1995, when SunBus went all CNG and ordered some new Orion Vs. |
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| (218904) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by mcorivervsaf on Fri Dec 31 21:12:58 2010, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by r17-6599 on Fri Dec 31 18:54:57 2010. You're more than welcome, Joe! All this was well before my time, I wish I was around for it, despite the eventual fate of the Grummans! Enjoy the rest of the holiday, & have a Happy New Year!-- J. Rivera |
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| (218906) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by caine515 on Fri Dec 31 21:13:13 2010, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Fri Dec 31 21:08:06 2010. I know that suffolk transit had the flexible Metro and that survived a long time. I don't know why NYC didnt order Gilligs instead? |
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| (218911) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Dec 31 21:44:04 2010, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by caine515 on Fri Dec 31 21:13:13 2010. The Phantom was a completely new model at the time, and the largest agency that would order them would be Seattle. |
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| (218913) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Fri Dec 31 22:05:39 2010, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by mcorivervsaf on Fri Dec 31 21:12:58 2010. I'm probably the only one home tonight. I know I have some news clippings from the Grumman fiasco era, including the DC MetroBuses on route to NY (one even broke down on the way). Got to dig that stuff out.Happy New Year; be safe. jrc |
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| (218914) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by busdude on Fri Dec 31 22:07:39 2010, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Dec 31 21:44:04 2010. Minnapolis i think had a larger fleet before seattle did. they are starting to retire/replace the oldest with low floor advantages or whatever they are called these days. Seattle has about 600 or so, with the oldest now starting to be retired. not sure how many Minnapolis had in the heyday but it must have been close or more than that mark as well. |
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| (218915) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Fri Dec 31 22:11:06 2010, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Fri Dec 31 21:08:06 2010. Didn't RTD/MTA receive Flx Metros after that? I recall even Metros that were Methanol and/ or Ethanol powered.jrc |
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| (218920) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by The TransitMan on Fri Dec 31 22:48:00 2010, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by futurekbarticop on Fri Dec 31 13:25:55 2010. Actually, there was no #1037 as that order stopped at #1033. #PA1033 that is. |
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| (218922) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by The TransitMan on Fri Dec 31 22:57:05 2010, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Dec 31 12:06:35 2010. The Grummans were replaced by the 1990 Orion 05.501 #579-599, 1991 Orion 05.501 #600-656 and 1992 Orion 05.501 CNG #657-666. Also, the 1988 Gilig Phantom 35TB102 #500-519 and 40TB102 #520-560 were thrown in as well.Then the Gilligs and the FIRST set of Orion 05.501 (#579-599) and the Orion 05.501 CNG #657-666 were replaced by #1806-1821 and #1400-1525. Growing up along Hillside Av in Jamaica, I will truly miss those days from MSBA! |
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| (218924) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by Huz66511 on Fri Dec 31 23:01:23 2010, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by r17-6599 on Fri Dec 31 22:05:39 2010. Nope I'm home tonite. I remember coming down to NYC in 1981 and shooting a bunch of those ex WMATA buses. It was WAY COOL! |
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| (218930) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by Nabinut on Fri Dec 31 23:42:55 2010, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by r17-6599 on Fri Dec 31 22:11:06 2010. I believe RTD ordered three to four lots after between RTS orders 1800s-(CNGs) 2500s, 2700s & 2900s. The last of them retired in 2005. |
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| (218944) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Sat Jan 1 06:07:36 2011, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by WayneJay on Fri Dec 31 17:46:41 2010. For NYCTA, the remaining 200 Grumman 870 buses were the group that had wheelchair lifts (NYCTA 453-552 & MABSTOA 811-910). In NYC the Grumman Flxibles for the DOT PBLs were also delivered later with the A-Frame retrofit in place.I was told some years back that some Grumman 870's were destined for Ave B/ East Broadway, but the company folded and lines were absorbed by MaBSTOA. Is that true ? Bill Newkirk |
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| (218950) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by oldman on Sat Jan 1 09:23:53 2011, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by Newkirk Images on Sat Jan 1 06:07:36 2011. Ave B's were 96 inch wide, and I believe they went off to Springfield,Ma |
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| (218961) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by WayneJay on Sat Jan 1 13:28:47 2011, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by Newkirk Images on Sat Jan 1 06:07:36 2011. I was told some years back that some Grumman 870's were destined for Ave B/ East Broadway, but the company folded and lines were absorbed by MaBSTOA. Is that true ?Yes, that is correct. The routes became MABSTOA routes, but they didn't take the buses. Ave B/E Bway share of the Grumman 870s arrived after the company went out of business. Those Grumman 870s, which were 96-inches wide with DD 8V-71N engines went to the TA where they were used in SI Express service. They were numbered #553-565. The TA ordered 837 Grumman Flxible 870s, but after the dust settled, they had 851 of them. The breakdown: 837 buses ordered, 1 demo unit #100 (which became #199), plus the 13 870s that were originally supposed to go to Ave B/E. Bway. |
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| (218967) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Jan 1 14:19:38 2011, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by WayneJay on Sat Jan 1 13:28:47 2011. And they were intended to replace the Flxettes, right?BTW, if anyone knows, other than 236, what Flxibles were the other 15 that were held as evidence for the MTA's lawsuit against Flxible? |
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| (218981) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by cyberblx on Sat Jan 1 16:43:16 2011, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by futurekbarticop on Fri Dec 31 13:25:55 2010. CyberBLX recalls operating the NYCT Grumman buses and liked them. Doors opened/closed quick, b/o had large side window and they were fast. The first batch of RTS's didn't get any high marks from CyberBLX. |
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| (219005) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sat Jan 1 21:13:58 2011, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by Nabinut on Fri Dec 31 23:42:55 2010. Also, 2800s (2800-2870) delivered late 1990-early 1991. Equipped with DDEC 6L71. |
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| (219013) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by WayneJay on Sat Jan 1 22:56:36 2011, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Jan 1 14:19:38 2011. And they were intended to replace the Flxettes, right?You may be right, but I can't say either way as I wasn't very familiar with Ave B/E Bway and it's fleet. I do remember #553-565 well. The first time I saw one (I think was #562), I was shocked. First, because all of the TA buses had DD 6V-71N engines (while the PBL buses had DD 8V-71N). Second, becaused they're interiors were like the 870s at the DOT PBLs. When the TA held that small group of Flxibles, I suspect that they may have hand-picked some of the "bad" units. Then, #236 may have benn the best of that group and they decided to keep it. Again, this is my guess, and I have no supporting info/facts. |
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| (219015) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by caine515 on Sat Jan 1 23:02:20 2011, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by WayneJay on Sat Jan 1 22:56:36 2011. I remember that Green Bus Lines, Queens Surface and Triboro Coach had the Grummans as well as Jamaica Bus. The three questions i have is this:1-were the problems with the grummans the reason Triboro,Green and Queens Surface pulled their models? 2-why did Jamaica keep theirs in service? 3-Was there a reason Command never got the buses? |
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| (219017) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by WayneJay on Sun Jan 2 00:01:15 2011, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by caine515 on Sat Jan 1 23:02:20 2011. Yes, only the PBLs in Queens had Grumman 870s and I rode them at all of the companies.Not sure about GBL and TCC, but I recall that the Queens/Steinway buses were pretty much worn out and they didn't get rehab jobs and operated for many years. I didn't ride the JBL 870s in the later part of their lives, but they seem to have gotten a rehab of sorts. Also, I don't think they were used as much as those at the other PBLs. Not sure why Command didn't get 870s. |
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| (219018) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by mcorivervsaf on Sun Jan 2 00:02:08 2011, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by caine515 on Sat Jan 1 23:02:20 2011. I don't know how Jamaica Buses kept their Grummans in service the longest of the PBL's, but I believe they ran until around 2000. I recall seeing them around that time while I was working at Kennedy Airport, riding on the Q3 to and from work. |
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| (219129) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Jan 3 15:10:03 2011, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Fri Dec 31 11:38:42 2010. That surprised me too. I was always struck by people defending the Flxible telling us how they ran for years with NJT without a problem; that only New York had buses with these issues. But this news report shows otherwise. Chicago, LA, Detroit... |
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| (219130) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Jan 3 15:17:28 2011, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by caine515 on Fri Dec 31 21:13:13 2010. Gilligs suck in medium-duty service, I can't imagine how poorly they would perform in heavy-duty service in NYC. |
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| (219165) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Jan 3 20:12:12 2011, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Jan 3 15:10:03 2011. That problem with the MTA's vehicles were after that. In 1981, every Grumman 870 had to be parked until the fixes were made. |
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| (219172) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Mon Jan 3 21:17:22 2011, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Jan 3 15:10:03 2011. But you miss the important irony of it all: New York City buses were disposed of, while the private ones remained. Operating on many of the same streets as NYCTA's. The news reports don't mention that.jrc |
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| (219173) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Jan 3 21:19:09 2011, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by r17-6599 on Mon Jan 3 21:17:22 2011. The NYCDOT units were fixed as they came off the assembly line, and the 125 units for MSBA remained in service. |
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| (219178) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Mon Jan 3 22:25:45 2011, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Jan 3 21:19:09 2011. Not the point. The fact remained that the SAME buses, even after the fix, were sidelined while the others remained. The authorities blamed city streets; a joke.And for those with short memories, or too young to know, the "underdog" RTSs were readily available in very short time to take up the duties. Suspicious to me. jrc |
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| (219205) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by mcorivervsaf on Tue Jan 4 09:47:22 2011, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by r17-6599 on Mon Jan 3 22:25:45 2011. I think it might have been the public shaming of these buses on the part of BOTH then-TA President David Gunn, & then-mayor Ed Koch, that might have put the final nail in the coffin for the NYCTA/MABSTOA Grummans. The Grumman express bus that caught fire in 1984, caused such an embarrassment, that when Ed Koch saw the burned bus & called it, "a piece of junk", may have influenced newly appointed TA Prez Gunn to take them off the road. The reason these buses were withdrawn might have been political for all we know... |
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| (219208) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by moviebuses on Tue Jan 4 10:02:25 2011, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Jan 3 15:10:03 2011. NYCTA was the only company to over react and jump off the cliff over these buses. All the other companies got the retrofits and dealt with the situation... Pure drama. |
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| (219210) | |
Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Jan 4 10:31:33 2011, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by mcorivervsaf on Tue Jan 4 09:47:22 2011. Probably was political, because it cost the MTA $56 million...and may be why to this day the MTA doesn't use federal dollars for buses (although the 1800s are being bought with ARRA funds). |
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Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by mtancct on Tue Jan 4 11:49:32 2011, in response to 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by mcorivervsaf on Fri Dec 31 11:29:01 2010. It is interesting to see this article...mainly because the 870's that New Orleans received (from around 78) stuck around until 1997 with the last ones being the flexible brands that the suburban system had until 1999.Great article |
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Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by Sid from NJ on Tue Jan 4 16:40:14 2011, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by mcorivervsaf on Tue Jan 4 09:47:22 2011. [when Ed Koch saw the burned bus & called it, "a piece of junk", may have influenced newly appointed TA Prez Gunn to take them off the road.]My recollection is that Gunn was the prime, perhaps sole, mover behind getting rid of the Grumman 870's. Those who remember Gunn here in NYC and elsewhere can probably attest that he is his own boss and doesn't easily get influenced by others. |
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Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by mcorivervsaf on Tue Jan 4 17:09:10 2011, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by Sid from NJ on Tue Jan 4 16:40:14 2011. Ah, I see. Mind you, this was well before my time, but there must have been a "Marshall Law" stance taken by Gunn to retire the Grummans prematurely, after that incident. He probably did that to make himself look good, as the new TA president at that time! |
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Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by Cornell Park on Wed Jan 5 11:32:18 2011, in response to 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by mcorivervsaf on Fri Dec 31 11:29:01 2010. Heard the Grumman that burned in 1984 had nothing to do with the A-Frame issue. Was told something about a broken rear shock that cut into a battery cable.The retrofit was being done 2 ways- 1) At a factory shop or bus company shop by Grumman service personal 2) By the bus company personal with 100% cost covered by Grumman. This is what I was told years ago when I asked somebody about it. Can't be sure if he was correct or full of it. |
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Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems |
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Posted by RailBus63 on Wed Jan 5 12:15:35 2011, in response to Re: 1981 News Report: Grumman-Flxible 870 Cracked A-Frame Problems, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Dec 31 11:52:52 2010. Don't forget that GM-Canada was also selling New Look buses to U.S. agencies by this time. |
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