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| (344088) | |
Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns. |
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Posted by Dan on Sat Dec 4 14:29:54 2021 The pending Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns are briefly mentioned in the NYC Streets Plan (pdf).Page 33: Supporting MTA’s Bus Network Redesign Implementation: MTA is working on bus network redesigns in all five boroughs to better serve customer needs and optimize service levels. Plans have been completed in the Bronx, are underway in Queens and Brooklyn, and will begin soon in Staten Island and Manhattan. The Bronx Bus Network Redesign will be implemented in Summer 2022, prioritizing the needs of bus riders as commute patterns adjust post- COVID-19 pandemic, and NYC DOT will work closely with MTA to make the roll-out a success. |
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Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns. |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Dec 4 17:07:35 2021, in response to Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns., posted by Dan on Sat Dec 4 14:29:54 2021. Dan: Thank you for that interesting post. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns. |
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Posted by GojiMet86 on Sat Dec 4 21:36:53 2021, in response to Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns., posted by Dan on Sat Dec 4 14:29:54 2021. That ought to calm down Chicago44. |
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Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns. |
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Posted by Q23 on Sat Dec 4 22:20:55 2021, in response to Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns., posted by GojiMet86 on Sat Dec 4 21:36:53 2021. He'll just start asking when the redesigns be released. It's always something. |
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Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns. |
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Posted by Snilcher on Mon Dec 6 11:14:09 2021, in response to Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns., posted by Dan on Sat Dec 4 14:29:54 2021. From the NYC Streets Plan document:CityBenches provide public seating to make New York City’s streets more comfortable for all New Yorkers, especially pedestrians and transit riders. Benches also allow seniors and people with disabilities to walk longer distances to and from public transit, by providing rest stops along the way. NYC DOT manages and maintains over 2,100 CityBenches citywide. So, longer distances between bus stops but benches will be added lest walkers tire out on the way to the bus stop? |
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Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns. |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Dec 6 11:41:22 2021, in response to Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns., posted by Snilcher on Mon Dec 6 11:14:09 2021. And miss the next bus while recuperating on the bench. Not nice. What about when it is raining - sit on a wet bench ? |
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Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns. |
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Posted by JAzumah on Tue Dec 7 09:46:50 2021, in response to Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns., posted by Joe V on Mon Dec 6 11:41:22 2021. I have done it in waterproof warmup pants. |
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Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns. |
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Posted by Dan on Wed Dec 8 08:50:09 2021, in response to Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns., posted by Q23 on Sat Dec 4 22:20:55 2021. And without a question mark of course! |
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Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Dec 8 09:35:10 2021, in response to Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns., posted by Dan on Sat Dec 4 14:29:54 2021. Greg Mocker did a recent report that said the revised Queens plan would be produced in December and Manhattan and Queens would resume next year. He also said Bronx would be implemented in Sept 2023 (which could be a typo). He also said Staten Island local study has not started. I thought it was begun but abandoned. Maybe they intend to start from scratch. |
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Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns. |
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Posted by Dan on Wed Dec 8 11:31:22 2021, in response to Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns., posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Dec 8 09:35:10 2021. The Staten Island Bus Study was first started way back in 2016. I believe that both local and express networks were to be studied, but it was later decided to do the express study first. The new SI Express Bus network was implemented in 2018. The SI local bus study has barely been mentioned in the press or anywhere else until it's brief mention in the NYCDOT study.It's a long time ago but IIRC the local study was intended to redesign routes to better serve SI's employment centers, many of which didn't exist when the routes were implemented over the last 70+ years. In 2021 that would be the three colleges, three large hospital centers, the SI Mall, Amazon/Matrix Park and the numerous large neighborhood shopping centers like Bricktown Mall etc. Also mentioned in 2016 was the possibility of an east-west 'cross island' bus route. The limited arterial road network on SI hampers any drastic redesign of the local routes. Staten Island has a low population density and 84% of Staten Island households own a car. So the local bus network is really not a major political issue except in parts of the north shore already well-served by local buses. The east and south shores are more concerned with the express buses. The west shore is mostly industrial. |
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Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Dec 8 16:31:31 2021, in response to Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns., posted by Dan on Wed Dec 8 11:31:22 2021. Thanks for the background info. However, there were some changes to accommodate the Mall as well as other changes, e.g Verrazzano Bridge. So the statement that a local SI bus study hasn't begun would be definitely wrong.There also was a study in 1981 and 1982 which resulted in two route changes. |
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Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns. |
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Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Wed Dec 8 18:00:15 2021, in response to Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns., posted by Dan on Wed Dec 8 11:31:22 2021. That is 100% inaccurate to say that "The limited arterial road network on SI hampers any drastic redesign of the local routes". Tell that to the people along the Goethals Road North/Fahy Avenue, Mosel/Osgood Avenue, and Huguenot Avenue corridors that have no local bus service whatsoever. Tell that to the people in Arden Heights who have to backtrack to Princes Bay to catch the SIR instead of catching it at Annadale. Tell that to the people along Manor Road, Jewett Avenue, Howard Avenue, or on Cottage Hill or whole swaths of the South Shore who have no weekend service. Tell that to the people in whole swaths of the borough that have no direct connection to Brooklyn.Go ahead and tell all those people that a "drastic redesign" isn't needed or possible. |
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Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns. |
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Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Wed Dec 8 18:08:45 2021, in response to Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns., posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Dec 8 16:31:31 2021. I'm confused. Are you talking about the S79 SBS project (which included bus lanes near the SI Mall) or the Verrazanno-Narrows Bridge bus lane? Because those were separate from the 2015 local bus study.The original 2015 study has not been abandoned. The MTA told us (at the Community Board 1 meeting) from the very beginning that the express routes would be prioritized in the study (and we insisted that the local routes should not be ignored and they heard us loud and clear). At the end, they were overly cautious and decided to start small and stick with their original priority (at the time, the express system carried about 1/3 the passenger volume of the local system...probably less nowadays, so any impacts wouldn't be as large and it would give them a chance to adjust and scale it up for the local network). |
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Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Dec 8 20:32:40 2021, in response to Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns., posted by checkmatechamp13 on Wed Dec 8 18:08:45 2021. I was talking about the original extension of the R7 (later the S7, then S53) extension over the bridge when it was built.I was also talking about bus route changes to accommodate the Mall from the 1982 study. I only mentioned these because the original poster made it seem there were no route changes in the past 70 years. I should have used the words "put on hold", niot "abandoned" I was trying to make the point that Mocker was wrong by saying the local study has not begun. He would be correct only if work done to date has been abandoned. |
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Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns. |
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Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Wed Dec 8 22:26:43 2021, in response to Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns., posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Dec 8 20:32:40 2021. I'll put it this way: I think they would repeat the whole process from the beginning (a round of meetings, then an Existing Conditions Report, a round of meetings, then a Draft Report, a round of meetings then the Final Report). But they wouldn't completely throw away the data and ideas gathered during the initial round of meetings. |
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Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns. |
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Posted by Chicago44 on Thu Dec 9 14:03:34 2021, in response to Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns., posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Dec 8 20:32:40 2021. Can you post up the proposed & unproposed changes from the local & express routes back in 1981, 1982. |
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Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns. |
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Posted by Chicago44 on Thu Dec 9 14:04:51 2021, in response to Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns., posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Dec 8 09:35:10 2021. They should add a route to Newark Liberty International Airport. |
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Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Dec 9 14:28:28 2021, in response to Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns., posted by checkmatechamp13 on Wed Dec 8 22:26:43 2021. You never know. |
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Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Dec 9 14:35:35 2021, in response to Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns., posted by Chicago44 on Thu Dec 9 14:03:34 2021. I don't believe there were any express bus proposals. And I think that the two route changes that were done were the only ones proposed.There also were proposals from the Brooklyn, Queens and Manhattan studies, but the conclusion was there was no money in the budget to implement any of them. I think there may have been a Bronx study earlier so none was done from '81 to '83. In '81 there also was a Southeast Queens Zone Express study that recommended zone express on Merrick Blvd. don't remember what happened with it. Either the communities opposed it or it was tried for a while and didn't succeed. Those studies costed over $20 million and really was wast d money, but the MTA didn't care since they were federally reimbursed. |
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Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns. |
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Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Thu Dec 9 22:41:12 2021, in response to Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns., posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Dec 9 14:35:35 2021. And now they're planning to implement a zone express along a whole bunch of corridors. Better late than never. |
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Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns. |
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Posted by Chicago44 on Sat Dec 11 10:48:18 2021, in response to Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns., posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Dec 8 09:35:10 2021. When is this Queens Study finally going to start, we are already in December. |
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Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Dec 11 13:41:59 2021, in response to Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns., posted by Chicago44 on Sat Dec 11 10:48:18 2021. Supposed to restart this month. The other studies some time next year. |
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Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns. |
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Posted by Dan on Mon Dec 13 13:14:43 2021, in response to Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns., posted by checkmatechamp13 on Wed Dec 8 18:00:15 2021. '...Tell that to the people along the Goethals Road North/Fahy Avenue, Mosel/Osgood Avenue, and Huguenot Avenue corridors that have no local bus service whatsoever...'You're sort of proving my point. There aren't many wide non-residential 2-way streets on SI capable of handling buses when compared to the other boroughs withe their street grids. I can't speak for the north shore locations you mention but the people living down near Huguenot Avenue all drive cars and will never use the local bus. If anything the Huguenot corridor needs more express service. |
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| (344213) | |
Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns. |
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Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Mon Dec 13 18:30:26 2021, in response to Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns., posted by Dan on Mon Dec 13 13:14:43 2021. On the northern end of Huguenot Avenue with all the townhouses, there were several people asking for local service at those meetings. And the streets don't have to be non-residential. They just have to be wide and direct enough to handle bus service and be able to generate decent ridership. |
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Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns. |
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Posted by Dan on Tue Dec 14 12:02:30 2021, in response to Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns., posted by checkmatechamp13 on Mon Dec 13 18:30:26 2021. ...the streets don't have to be non-residential...True but the MTA seems to be removing as many bus routes as possible from residential streets. Isn't that what's going on in part with the Bronx and Queens re-designs? |
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Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns. |
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Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Tue Dec 14 13:07:42 2021, in response to Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns., posted by Dan on Tue Dec 14 12:02:30 2021. Yeah, the narrow, disconnected residential streets that you have to make a bunch of turns to get through. Not wide, direct residential streets. |
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Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns. |
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Posted by BusMgr on Tue Dec 14 13:10:16 2021, in response to Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns., posted by Chicago44 on Thu Dec 9 14:04:51 2021. More generally, there is a lack of transportation between Staten Island and New Jersey. Prior to the building of the bridges, there were ferries that connected the communities on opposite sides of the Arthur Kill and Kill van Kull, but now there's nothing but for the rush hour only S89. The restoration of the pedestrian walkways on the replacement Goethals Bridge and Bayonne Bridge are useful for ambitious persons, but there's no walkway on the Outerbridge Crossing. Public transportation from Tottenville to Perth Amboy, once a trip taking a few minutes on a short ferry trip, now requires transiting Port Authority Bus Terminal or Pennsylvania Station. While it is likely that only a handful of people would use public transportation connecting Staten Island with New Jersey, for those who would use it would save substantial inconvenience. |
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Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Dec 14 13:11:21 2021, in response to Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns., posted by Dan on Tue Dec 14 12:02:30 2021. In many cases there is no alternative. Bus routes were originally placed on commercial streets where possible.Are you just going to eliminate the 49-50 Street route in Brooklyn and leave a mile gap from 39 St to 60 St? Yet it wouldn’t surprise me if they tried that. But it never could happen. The politicians just wouldn’ t allow it. |
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Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns. |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 14 14:43:03 2021, in response to Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns., posted by BusMgr on Tue Dec 14 13:10:16 2021. I don't think anyone would ride a ferry betwen Tottenville and Perth AMboy topday. I do think a bus form Huguenot to downtown Newark would be useful. |
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Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns. |
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Posted by BusMgr on Tue Dec 14 19:22:24 2021, in response to Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns., posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 14 14:43:03 2021. There are many possibilities of connecting various points on each side of the state line. There's the issue of whether there should be short links just to connect the two sides over one or more bridges (in a manner not unlike the B39 route), or longer routes that connect real traffic generators (e.g., Staten Island Mall, Newark Airport). Important details, of course, but more than just the general idea of having some type of public transportation connecting Staten Island with New Jersey, without having to go through Manhattan on the way. |
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Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns. |
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Posted by Dan on Wed Dec 15 12:37:35 2021, in response to Re: Staten Island and Manhattan bus redesigns., posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Dec 14 13:11:21 2021. The B11 is the exception to that rule because as you state there is no realistic routing alternative. Whoever laid out the southwest Brooklyn street grid in the 1890s is to blame! |
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