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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by pragmatist on Sun Sep 26 18:39:40 2021, in response to Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by Allen45 on Sun Sep 26 16:31:58 2021. Wasn't Burke already in management on the property? That would seem to give him an edge with the family. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by Allen45 on Sun Sep 26 19:08:49 2021, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by pragmatist on Sun Sep 26 18:39:40 2021. Yes but news reports said that Triboro Coach was seen by many as the company most favored to acquire Queens/Steinway Transit in June 1988. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by BusMgr on Sun Sep 26 19:18:33 2021, in response to Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by Allen45 on Sun Sep 26 16:31:58 2021. Two main reasons. First, there was concern about further concentration of the industry, for either of the two acquisitions would eliminate an independent operation. Second, Mr. Burke made the "best" promise to reduce the city's expenses in funding the operations. This came to pass with the closing of the Steinway garage, and the slashing of service. The city's main interest was not on providing good transit bus service, but to not spend money on transit bus service. Thus, the selection was easy. The Steinway garage, and service was cut ruthlessly with a machete. Good service on Steinway Street was replaced with half-hourly buses, and Kissena Boulevard was reduced to crush loads. Had the service passed to Ttiboro Coach or Liberty Lines Express, it is likely that good service would have continued. But again, the city had no interest in good service--it had the bus companies to kick if complaints about service arose--only to not spend money on bus service. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by Allen45 on Sun Sep 26 20:17:01 2021, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by BusMgr on Sun Sep 26 19:18:33 2021. Thank you for the explanation! |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by Italianstallion on Mon Sep 27 15:52:27 2021, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by BusMgr on Sun Sep 26 19:18:33 2021. And service on Steinway Street is still crap today. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by BusMgr on Mon Sep 27 22:34:13 2021, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by Italianstallion on Mon Sep 27 15:52:27 2021. When service was good, the route was split between Steinway Street local and Rikers Island express. But with service now so reduced, would it be better to re-combine, with a single route via Steinway Street to Rikers Island, so as to allow for better headway intervals? Fifteen minute base period headways? Consider as well the planned closure of Rikers Island as a jail later this decade, what it will become, and the type of transit service warranted thereafter. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by Italianstallion on Tue Sep 28 11:37:50 2021, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by BusMgr on Mon Sep 27 22:34:13 2021. The Rikers express now runs via 21st St., which is faster as Steinway is always incredibly congested. It also serves the F stop at Queensbridge. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by Allen45 on Tue Sep 28 11:39:34 2021, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by Italianstallion on Tue Sep 28 11:37:50 2021. It also makes stops in Astoria along 21st Street on Broadway, 30th Avenue, Astoria Boulevard, 24th Avenue (on MTA BusTime but not published on schedule), 21st Avenue and on 20th Avenue/31st Street. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by BusMgr on Tue Sep 28 12:05:28 2021, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by Italianstallion on Tue Sep 28 11:37:50 2021. That may be true, but it is a detail and perhaps part of the policy question. The purpose of the Rikers express route is to provide transit service to Rikers Island, for the benefit of persons visiting the jail thereon, having previously been integrated with, and an extension of, Steinway Street local service. By separating the Rikers Island service from the Steinway Street service, the total demand of each of the two sub-markets became such that less frequent (and arguably unsatisfactory) headway intervals were instituted. Now if the two services were re-combined, the increased total service demand could justify a better headway interval on Steinway Street. And indeed it would result in a slower trip for those persons destined for Rikers Island. But demand for Rikers Island service, even if slower by being routed back on Steinway Street, would probably not decrease, since it is a captive market. The other residual issue is that of desegregation, with the concept of segregating passengers on the separate services because of the differing demographics of the two. So there are many policy issues involved here, issues that will come to the forefront later this decade when the jails on Rikers Island are closed. So what is the answer? If history is any guide, the city might well decide, once the jails are closed, to completely discontinue the Rikers Island express service, not provide any service to whatever replaces the jails, and keep poor local service on Steinway Street. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by Italianstallion on Wed Sep 29 17:21:46 2021, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by BusMgr on Tue Sep 28 12:05:28 2021. Good points. I would assume that if Rikers is closed, the island would be developed as residential space, or mixed residential and commercial, like Roosevelt Island. It would undoubtedly need transit service. It’s likely a limited or express bus route would be established going to the Ditmars subway or down Steinway Street. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by BusMgr on Wed Sep 29 23:52:00 2021, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by Italianstallion on Wed Sep 29 17:21:46 2021. If community-oriented development is provided for on Rikers Island, then it would probably be best to reconnect it with Steinway Street, allowing for more demand and more frequent local service. Imagine publicly-accessible roads on the island, with more bus service than just the present-day single bus stop at the visitors' center. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Fri Oct 1 17:45:39 2021, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by Italianstallion on Mon Sep 27 15:52:27 2021. Half of the Q101 duplicates other bus routes as well as the subway with a stub end terminal at the outer fringes of Midtown, while the other half is either pretty walkable to the subway or goes through a heavily industrial area comprised of warehouses that have plenty of parking on site. The route gets 24/7 service, but is dead overnight unless a northbound bus happens to meet an arriving (E) train from Manhattan at Broadway.The route is a relic, and bus service along Steinway Street needs to be restructured badly. The MTA had some good ideas in connecting the street with Greenpoint and Williamsburg, but we’ll see if that idea sticks. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sat Oct 2 20:18:05 2021, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by BusMgr on Wed Sep 29 23:52:00 2021. The Queens bus redesign has the QT79 running down 31st Street and ending at Hunters Point. I think that would remain the plan even if Rikers is redeveloped. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by BusMgr on Sun Oct 3 03:12:32 2021, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sat Oct 2 20:18:05 2021. It is interesting historically as a restoration of the original focus of the route on the 34th Street ferry terminal. Dutch Kills was not a particularly important destination until the completion of the Queensboro Bridge in 1909, and the establishment of Queens Plaza. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by Allen45 on Sun Apr 3 11:38:15 2022, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by BusMgr on Tue Sep 28 12:05:28 2021. The interesting part is that MTA is now trying to integrate local service with Rikers Island service as part of the Queens redesign and there's no opposition. Also many people like using the Q100 on 21st Street. Astoria has come a long way. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by BusRider on Sun Apr 3 12:58:11 2022, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by Allen45 on Sun Apr 3 11:38:15 2022. I noticed that as well, isn’t that a bit of a “forward thinking” move, I heard on the radio (WNYC) that Rikers Island is planned to be majorly redeveloped if/when the jail closes ? A caller mentioned now they would like to see the area become more transit friendly. Then reading some of its Routes’ history here, it does seem times may be changing for the better in that minimal regard. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by Allen45 on Tue Jun 28 16:54:41 2022, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by BusMgr on Sun Sep 26 19:18:33 2021. It's also interesting to point out that this was a sale of assets and not a sale of the corporation. I also wonder why Queens/Steinway Transit the corporation wasn't sold and just the assets. I'd assume the board of estimate approval would be bypassed if the corporation was sold rather than just the assets. In other purchases such as Liberty Lines/Bus Associates purchase of Pioneer Transit and Riverdale Transit, these were all corporate takeovers that didn't get board of estimate scrutiny that I am aware of. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jun 28 17:03:52 2022, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by Allen45 on Tue Jun 28 16:54:41 2022. Just spitballing here, but actually buying a corporation also means taking on its liabilities. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by JAzumah on Tue Jun 28 23:44:13 2022, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by BusRider on Sun Apr 3 12:58:11 2022. I expect Rikers Island to remain a correctional facility location. It would make sense to rebuild the facility there. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jun 29 11:11:22 2022, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by JAzumah on Tue Jun 28 23:44:13 2022. I agree that it makes sense to keep the jail there, but the city is set on building jails in the boroughs where no one other than the criminal-apologists want them. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by Allen45 on Wed Jun 29 14:04:59 2022, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jun 29 11:11:22 2022. Some of the reformers say they don’t want them there either. But the faux progressives want them there. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jun 29 14:09:24 2022, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by Allen45 on Wed Jun 29 14:04:59 2022. Making the conditions of the jails better can be done in Rikers. If they’re going to build new jails they can do it on Rikers. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by Allen45 on Wed Jun 29 14:10:34 2022, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jun 29 11:11:22 2022. Some of the reformers say they don’t want them there either. But the faux progressives want them there. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by BusMgr on Wed Jun 29 15:32:16 2022, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by Osmosis Jones on Fri Oct 1 17:45:39 2021. The Manhattan terminal of route Q101 (and also of route Q60) is a relic from an era when a substantial concern was the erosion of farebox revenue of one company from service area intrusion by another. Route Q32 extends further into midtown Manhattan because its original operator, Fifth Avenue Coach, overlapped the service onto its other routes on Fifth Avenue, and did not have the same degree of concern of revenue (although in leading up the inauguration of the route, Fifth Avenue made clear that there would be no free transfer between the news Queens route and uptown points along Fifth Avenue . . . an extra dime would be required for such travel). That interest of farebox erosion is largely gone because of the expansion of free transfers (though there does remain a legitimate interest of NYCTA not having its farebox revenue eroded by MTABC, and vice versa). Legitimately, route Q101 (and route Q60) should be extended further into midtown Manhattan if that would better serve good transportation purposes (there are also reasons not to do so, such as the reliability of midtown traffic, but those reasons would apply equally to route Q32, which if real would justify cutting route Q32 back to Second Avenue). Whether such midtown extension would also be along Fifth Avenue or elsewhere would properly be the subject of good transportation planning and analysis.Many other areas with bus service are also "walkable" to a subway, but bus service is kept there as part of an attempt to lay out a reasonable grid of bus routes throughout the city. Subways provide limited stop service, while bus routes provide local service, and rarely have surface routes been eliminated because of a subway service being available (perhaps the greatest exception to that being the elimination of the surface route along McDonald Avenue). The extent of the grid within Long Island City is old, well-established, and remarkably regular. Elimination of service along Steinway Street would not be sensible. I fail to see much connection between Steinway Street and the Brooklyn neighborhoods of Greenpoint and Williamsburg. The lack of connection is illustrated by neither the "G" train nor the B62 bus route being particularly well-patronized, and additional services connecting the two boroughs cannot be expected to do much better. Steinway Street has long been connected to Manhattan, and it seems unlikely that its redirection elsewhere (into Brooklyn) would improve its usage or performance. Whether there should be overnight bus service on Steinway Street is a good question, but part of the larger issue of overnight service generally throughout the borough. Overnight service should be reviewed in that larger context, and not in isolation as to route Q101 specifically. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by Allen45 on Wed Jun 29 15:43:05 2022, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by BusMgr on Wed Jun 29 15:32:16 2022. There isn’t much connection between steinway street and Brooklyn. Gentrifiers don’t use buses. They use Uber/Lyft. Even on the QM22 when it existed, transplants in Astoria never used the bus, it was all old time residents. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jun 29 16:04:38 2022, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by BusMgr on Wed Jun 29 15:32:16 2022. The Manhattan terminal of the Q60 and Q101 is in a particularly useless location. Anything meaningful gained by running there is by the ability to transfer to a Manhattan route. If Q101 passengers are already transferring to the Q32, they might as well do it in Queens.As for the Q68 proposal, it has some validity even outside of anyone wanting to go between Astoria and Williamsburg. Longer, straight routes make transfers easier. The Q68 doesn’t really benefit access to the area of the Williamsburg Bridge Plaza but all of the routes at the WBP. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jun 29 16:07:20 2022, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by BusMgr on Wed Jun 29 15:32:16 2022. The Manhattan terminal of the Q60 and Q101 is in a particularly useless location. Anything meaningful gained by running there is by the ability to transfer to a Manhattan route. If Q101 passengers are already transferring to the Q32, they might as well do it in Queens.As for the Q68 proposal, it has some validity even outside of anyone wanting to go between Astoria and Williamsburg. Longer, straight routes make transfers easier. The Q68 doesn’t really benefit access to the area of the Williamsburg Bridge Plaza but all of the routes at the WBP. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by BusMgr on Wed Jun 29 20:00:30 2022, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by Allen45 on Wed Jun 29 15:43:05 2022. I don't know if I would use the term "gentrifiers," but instead I would consider the underlying social and economic connections generally between the two areas. I just don't see a substantial connection between the two. The demographics and orientation of people on each side of Newtown Creek are distinct. Having Hunter's Point or Queensboro Plaza being the northern terminus for routes from Greenpoint is an obvious location for such termini, and allows for connections to other various points. But I don't see a need for Brooklyn routes venturing further into Queens County. (For similar reasons, I don't see much for the proposed waterfront streetcar route in Brooklyn and Long Island City.) |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by Allen45 on Wed Jun 29 20:44:34 2022, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by BusMgr on Wed Jun 29 20:00:30 2022. They’re both undergoing gentrification. They’re very similar in politics and the demographics that are moving to these communities. They’re even humorously called on Twitter “the avocado corridor”. Even so I agree with you that buses from Brooklyn don’t need to venture much into Queens. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jun 30 00:58:08 2022, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by BusMgr on Wed Jun 29 15:32:16 2022. The Manhattan terminal of route Q101 (and also of route Q60) is a relic from an era when a substantial concern was the erosion of farebox revenue of one company from service area intrusion by another. Route Q32 extends further into midtown Manhattan because its original operator, Fifth Avenue Coach, overlapped the service onto its other routes on Fifth Avenue, and did not have the same degree of concern of revenue (although in leading up the inauguration of the route, Fifth Avenue made clear that there would be no free transfer between the news Queens route and uptown points along Fifth Avenue . . . an extra dime would be required for such travel). That interest of farebox erosion is largely gone because of the expansion of free transfers (though there does remain a legitimate interest of NYCTA not having its farebox revenue eroded by MTABC, and vice versa).Thank you for the history as always! Legitimately, route Q101 (and route Q60) should be extended further into midtown Manhattan if that would better serve good transportation purposes (there are also reasons not to do so, such as the reliability of midtown traffic, but those reasons would apply equally to route Q32, which if real would justify cutting route Q32 back to Second Avenue). Whether such midtown extension would also be along Fifth Avenue or elsewhere would properly be the subject of good transportation planning and analysis. And this is where we disagree. The Q32 and Q60 do well in Manhattan, and I agree that the Q60 should be extended to Columbus Circle, but I truly believe that service along Steinway Street can do much better than act as a poor duplication of the (R) to the outer fringes of Manhattan. On the other hand, I think that the 21st Street and Northern Boulevard corridors are both prime candidates for bus service between Western Queens and Manhattan (via the Queensboro Bridge or the Queens-Midtown Tunnel), and I firmly believe that both services would perform better than the Q101 does today. Many other areas with bus service are also "walkable" to a subway, but bus service is kept there as part of an attempt to lay out a reasonable grid of bus routes throughout the city. Subways provide limited stop service, while bus routes provide local service, and rarely have surface routes been eliminated because of a subway service being available (perhaps the greatest exception to that being the elimination of the surface route along McDonald Avenue). The extent of the grid within Long Island City is old, well-established, and remarkably regular. Elimination of service along Steinway Street would not be sensible. It's less so about the fact that the Q101 duplicates the subway, and more about the fact that it's shunned in favor of the subway, the routing not matching up with the demographics of the areas that the route serves, and the routing unnecessarily insulating Astoria and Steinway from Sunnyside, Greenpoint, etc, as if the 39th Street Railroad Bridge doesn't exist. For a little bit of contrast, the Bx4 in The Bronx duplicates the subway for just about the entirety of its route as well, but I would never suggest getting rid of it for that same reason since it serves a different demographic and is well utilized. Long Island City, Astoria, and Steinway have changed significantly within the past couple of decades. Both neighborhoods are now mostly comprised of Very Liberal Yuppies that rent instead of own, and pretty much only use public transportation to get to Manhattan or to the nearest subway that will get them to Manhattan, whichever is faster (which the Q101 is not compared to the (R) Train). Uber/Biking/Walking are pretty much used for everything else. I would never suggest getting ride of the Q101 as it is well utilized north of Broadway, and I actually think that no matter where it goes south of Broadway, buses will still empty out there because as I said before, it tends to be get to Manhattan as fast as possible or bust when it comes to public transit usage in that area. That being said, I still think it needs to revamped badly along with most of the other Q10X routes. I fail to see much connection between Steinway Street and the Brooklyn neighborhoods of Greenpoint and Williamsburg. The lack of connection is illustrated by neither the "G" train nor the B62 bus route being particularly well-patronized, and additional services connecting the two boroughs cannot be expected to do much better. Steinway Street has long been connected to Manhattan, and it seems unlikely that its redirection elsewhere (into Brooklyn) would improve its usage or performance. Steinway, Astoria, Long Island City, Sunnyside, and Greenpoint are all demographically similar. Williamsburg is almost as similar, but a lot of families live there along with Yuppies, so public transit is utilized for different reasons there. That being said, it's less about any cultural/demographic connection, and more about bettering the network by creating a new north-south link between Steinway and Williamsburg, as well as allowing riders from routes like the B44 and B60 to be able to get a two-seat ride to the popular shopping district along Steinway Street. I'm proposing this change with the mind frame of Steinway Street being a destination (which we all know it is) rather than a ridership base. Re: The B62, if the B62 isn't well-patronized, then what does that make the Q101? The Q101 quickly and directly connects a couple of Yuppie enclaves with one of the biggest job centers in the world in East Midtown, but yet gets half the ridership of the B62, is one of the bottom 10 local routes for MTA Bus even despite running 24/7, and barely gets more ridership than the Bx23, which is a subway feeder in the outer fringes of The Bronx. Whether there should be overnight bus service on Steinway Street is a good question, but part of the larger issue of overnight service generally throughout the borough. Overnight service should be reviewed in that larger context, and not in isolation as to route Q101 specifically. Steinway Street has a very vibrant nightlife, and is pretty much the nightlife center for Queens West of Woodside (although Vernon Boulevard is taking its place fast). I most definitely think that there should be overnight service on Steinway Street, but I'd run it as a shuttle between Broadway and Ditmars Boulevard, running Every 20 Minutes and meeting every arriving (E) train from Manhattan. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jun 30 01:03:30 2022, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by BusMgr on Wed Jun 29 20:00:30 2022. I'm sorry, but that's just not true anymore, the area has changed. Steinway, Astoria, Woodside, East Elmhurst, Sunnyside, Maspeth, and Greenpoint are all demographically similar now, Liberal young professionals that rent, not own. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jun 30 01:05:07 2022, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by Allen45 on Wed Jun 29 15:43:05 2022. Gentrifiers uses buses when they're waiting at the stop as they get off the subway, or when they want to get to the nearest subway stop. Otherwise, you also have to consider the domestic workers who work for them, as well as blue collar workers that work along Steinway Street. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jun 30 01:14:42 2022, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jun 29 16:04:38 2022. The Manhattan terminal of the Q60 and Q101 is in a particularly useless location.Not to mention that it doesn't have nearly enough adequate space for the route's demands. I remember seeing a rumor a while back on the MTA wanting to put artics on the Q60, and I wondered how that would even work since the terminal could only fit two artics. As for the Q68 proposal, it has some validity even outside of anyone wanting to go between Astoria and Williamsburg. Longer, straight routes make transfers easier. The Q68 doesn’t really benefit access to the area of the Williamsburg Bridge Plaza but all of the routes at the WBP. Exactly. I'm not saying that rerouting the Q101 to Williamsburg would make it the new M15, just that it would be a lot better for the network. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Jun 30 01:16:14 2022, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by Allen45 on Wed Jun 29 20:44:34 2022. They do,for connectivity purposes.Quite as kept, the G sees substantial passenger upticks during certain times of the day and evening. The Queens redesign points out most of the concerns you raised, and a few others. One of my concerns is the new B53 bus. Broadway Brooklyn is horrendous for traffic tie ups during the day. The prime reason for the B46SBS not terminating at Bridge Plaza was because of heavy traffic increasing headways beyond a reasonable amount. This affects the 46 local,which waits can be as long as half hourly and more. Broadway is a narrow st,compared to others. No room to properly maneuver, or put in a bus lane,without taking parking spaces away. However, the new route will cover one end of Broadway to the other, and replace the current B32 And part of the B24. A good idea,but pretty long route, covering a three roles. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jun 30 01:23:54 2022, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by Allen45 on Wed Jun 29 20:44:34 2022. When it comes to that part of Queens, I think that there should be a bus up to Steinway, as well as a bus up Greenpoint Avenue and Roosevelt Avenue well into Jackson Heights. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by BusMgr on Thu Jun 30 02:09:32 2022, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by Allen45 on Wed Jun 29 15:43:05 2022. I don't know if I would use the term "gentrifiers," but instead I would consider the underlying social and economic connections generally between the two areas. I just don't see a substantial connection between the two. The demographics and orientation of people on each side of Newtown Creek are distinct. Having Hunter's Point or Queensboro Plaza being the northern terminus for routes from Greenpoint is an obvious location for such termini, and allows for connections to other various points. But I don't see a need for Brooklyn routes venturing further into Queens County. (For similar reasons, I don't see much for the proposed waterfront streetcar route in Brooklyn and Long Island City.) |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by BusMgr on Thu Jun 30 02:39:44 2022, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jun 30 01:23:54 2022. Do you buses on Steinway Street and Greenpoint-Roosevelt Avenues by themselves, or as providing service connecting those streets with Brooklyn?If I recall correctly, the Greenpoint Avenue bus route many years ago continued into Queens as far as the Woodside railroad station. But I think that it traveled that far because the railroad station was really the first substantial development that made for a reasonable terminus for a bus route from Brooklyn. (Well, not entirely true, as the prior Greenpoint Avenue streetcar route ended in Blissville, at Calvary Cemetery where it connected to the New York & Queens County streetcar. But otherwise there was no real onward transportation there towards Flushing or elsewhere, so Woodside was really the logical terminus for a Brooklyn bus route along Greenpoint Avenue.) I don't think the Meeker Avenue route ever went past Newtown Creek, and nothing was ever established along its extension in Queens (via Laurel Hill Boulevard and 45th Avenue to Newtown) . . . but later it did get sent up 48th Street and eventually through-routed with a shorted Greenpoint Avenue route. Should the B24 be returned to Woodside?! |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by BusMgr on Thu Jun 30 02:39:52 2022, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jun 30 01:03:30 2022. Obviously none of these communities is entirely one demographic or another; it is all a matter of degree. I think that some of the communities in Queens have become more changed than others. In particular I think that is true with Astoria and Hunter's Point, but primarily because of proximity to midtown Manhattan, much more so than cultural or social connections with Williamsburg or Greenpoint. On the other hand, I think that Maspeth is the least changed. While once it was relatively well-connected, today Maspeth is much more isolated (at least with respect to public transportation . . . well connected by highway with the L.I.E. bisecting its center!), and resistant to change. (I think there's more change in Ridgewood, and especially in Bushwick along the western part of Wyckoff Avenue), but all these communities--Maspeth, Ridgewood, Glendale, Middle Village--are among the slowest to change. Other places, Sunnyside and Woodside, are somewhere in the middle. East Elmhurst does not seem to be on the verge of change with respect to young professionals oriented towards Manhattan, so much as to the ever-changing immigrant communities that make up so much of Queens County. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jun 30 12:08:06 2022, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jun 30 01:14:42 2022. Right. Every bus doesn’t have to be artics running every two minutes and packed to the rafters. It might even be reasonable to run buses that aren’t even full of standees at the height of rush hour. It’s a public service. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jun 30 12:12:10 2022, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by BusMgr on Thu Jun 30 02:39:44 2022. The B24 route is basically a practical joke (the Q38 too). The proposed Q68 at least solves that problem, although I don’t think the B53 makes much sense. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Jun 30 16:21:25 2022, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jun 30 12:12:10 2022. Makes plenty of sense for Brooklyn.Never had a through route before. Today,you would need to ride several different bus lines to travel across north Brooklyn by bus. The 53 will change that. And it won't terminate at Bridge Plaza,like every other bus route does. The B44SBS should also go further, by terminating at Delaney and Allen st. |
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jun 30 16:23:36 2022, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by Edwards! on Thu Jun 30 16:21:25 2022. I don’t have a problem with the B53 south of WBB, I just think it would be better off going over the Pulaski Bridge and not to Sunnyside. |
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