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SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jun 15 16:25:20 2017 Today's Queens Chronicle |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by The Silence on Thu Jun 15 17:33:38 2017, in response to SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jun 15 16:25:20 2017. A slightly less terrifying version |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jun 15 18:11:33 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by The Silence on Thu Jun 15 17:33:38 2017. You are right. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 15 18:44:40 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jun 15 18:11:33 2017. We need the Rockaway Beach Branch restored. Enough of this bus nonsense. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Jun 15 19:08:03 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 15 18:44:40 2017. Agreed. Or, the Robert Moses method: convert Woodhaven blvd into a 8 lane grade separated highway. I'm only half-kidding because despite it being a more expensive, disruptive, and overall inferior idea, it is more likely to get built than the any-city-planner-with-a-brain Rockaway Beach Branch restoration. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jun 16 17:36:45 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 15 18:44:40 2017. But that doesn't mean we should forget about short term solutions. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Jun 16 17:53:48 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 15 18:44:40 2017. I wish it would happen.Things have changed a great deal in the Rockaways since Sandy. There are so many folks coming down and spending the day than I can ever remember in my lifetime. On Sunday I was coming back home from baseball and that crossbay boulevard from the bridge up to the Belt was tough to see jammed. It's a good thing I was coming home and not going out. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Jun 16 17:58:01 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Jun 16 17:53:48 2017. When I headed over the bridge to Riis Park last Sunday on a crush loaded Q35 at 11am, the eastbound Belt was at a total standstill. The parking lot at Riis was still 80% empty. Robert Moses would not like that at all. He thought he could evade laws of physics and keep large masses of people moving in cars at 50 MPH, regardless of how many there were doing so at a time.Does JFK Depot have any artics ? |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Jun 17 02:27:12 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by Joe V on Fri Jun 16 17:58:01 2017. The lot will usually look mostly empty. It can fit about 7,000 cars. The eastbound belt will be slow because of the mill basin bridge construction and the opening of that bacsule bridge is a bitch.I don't know how many artics they have. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Jun 17 08:12:04 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by Joe V on Fri Jun 16 17:58:01 2017. JFK has artics for the Q10. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Jun 17 10:00:08 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Jun 17 08:12:04 2017. No extra available on weekends ? |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Jun 17 10:45:39 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 15 18:44:40 2017. But that doesn't mean we should forget about short term solutions. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Jun 17 10:45:45 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 15 18:44:40 2017. But that doesn't mean we should forget about short term solutions. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Jun 17 11:39:16 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by Joe V on Sat Jun 17 10:00:08 2017. IDK but bus stops would have to be lengthened. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Jun 17 12:49:57 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Jun 17 11:39:16 2017. What they need perhaps is a Q35X, run non-stop Target/Avenue H to Riis Park and back, use the Artics, and avoid bus stop modification issues. Local stops are now being bypassed due to crush load conditions.Is any bus driver certified/qualified to drive them ? |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Jun 17 14:02:17 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by Joe V on Sat Jun 17 12:49:57 2017. The seven extra Saturday buses starting in July and four extra Sunday buses should help. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sat Jun 17 21:56:23 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by Joe V on Fri Jun 16 17:58:01 2017. I know eventually they're going to have to increase service slightly on the Q52 during Summer weekends. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Jun 17 22:54:15 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sat Jun 17 21:56:23 2017. It could help but the number of cars coming out here is epic compared to anything in my memory. Let alone with the frequency of these weekend excursions out here. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Jun 17 23:27:15 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by Joe V on Fri Jun 16 17:58:01 2017. Robert Moses would not like that at all. He thought he could evade laws of physics and keep large masses of people moving in cars at 50 MPH, regardless of how many there were doing so at a time.Whatever Robert Moses' effect on today's life, one thing he did not encourage was people moving in cars at 50 mph. The speed limit Moses set for his parkways was 35 mph in NYC and 40 mph in Nassau and Suffolk. Moses also believed in strict enforcement of these speed limits. You might wish to consult an article he wrote in the Jan 4, 1953 issue of the NY Times Magazine. Its title was "To Turn Back The Killer, Speed." His opinion had not changed by 1958. He was recorded as being against raising the minimum permitted local speed limit from 20 mph to 30 mph. NY Times - 18 Oct 1958. The reason for Mr. Moses' opposition is stated in the title of his 1953 article. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Jun 17 23:37:24 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Jun 17 23:27:15 2017. When did the Belt's speed limit increase to 50? |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sun Jun 18 00:38:34 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Jun 17 22:54:15 2017. I'm with you on that. Rockaway has been growing in popularity since around 2009. I think Sandy caused the area to explode. Hundreds, if not thousands of people to come out here to donate or volunteer any services they could. A lot of Hipsters also volunteered and "discovered" the beaches out here-and some never left.The NYCDOT is not helping matters any. While houses, apartments and businesses are sprouting up everywhere, NYCDOT is closing streets (sections of Rockaway Freeway) or taking away traffic lanes (2 lanes on Shorefront Parkway and 4 lanes on Cross Bay Blvd going across the Jamaica Bay). |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Jun 18 06:34:34 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Jun 17 23:27:15 2017. His other defect is that he could not foresee or accept is that these Parkways became commuter freeways.He wanted a Fire Island Parkway to go from Captree to West Hampton so that someone could go from Staten Island to The Hamptons or Montauk without encountering a traffic light. Was he so stupid as to think people would drive 100 miles at 35 - 40 MPH ? |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jun 18 14:01:12 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Jun 17 23:37:24 2017. It actually increased from 50 to 55 mph around 1972 but was rolled back to 50 when the state speed limit became 55 (since rescinded) and the city limit became 50. That means the design speed for the Belt is at least 60 mph. The newly rebuilt sections are designed for 70 mph which is why 50 makes no sense. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Jun 18 16:31:02 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jun 18 14:01:12 2017. And there are still people doing 40 in the middle lane. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Jun 18 18:30:08 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by Joe V on Sun Jun 18 06:34:34 2017. Was he so stupid as to think people would drive 100 miles at 35 - 40 MPH ?Back in the days when the Taconic Parkway was a superhighway, 40 mph was considered fast enough by lots of people. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by fdtutf on Sun Jun 18 22:05:49 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jun 18 14:01:12 2017. That means the design speed for the Belt is at least 60 mph. The newly rebuilt sections are designed for 70 mph which is why 50 makes no sense.Then how 'bout let's "design" the Belt for 45-50 with a few judiciously placed speed bumps. (Tongue firmly in cheek, of course.) |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Jun 18 22:56:16 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Jun 17 23:37:24 2017. When did the Belt's speed limit increase to 50?July 1964. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jun 18 23:10:27 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by fdtutf on Sun Jun 18 22:05:49 2017. Why. 45? Why not 25? Cars shouldn't be able to travel faster than bikes. LOL. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jun 18 23:12:04 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by AlM on Sun Jun 18 18:30:08 2017. A "superhighway" was never 40 mph. Superhighway is what we used to call expressways and freeways. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sun Jun 18 23:20:04 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by AlM on Sun Jun 18 18:30:08 2017. Did you know the Taconic now has new signs, with mileage-based numbering? First road in NYS to have that. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by fdtutf on Mon Jun 19 00:18:14 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jun 18 23:10:27 2017. If 50 is the legal limit on the Belt, it should be designed for that limit.If it has pedestrian and/or bicycle traffic, the limit shouldn't be that high, but I'm assuming it doesn't. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Jun 19 00:36:12 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Jun 18 22:56:16 2017. Thank you. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Jun 19 01:06:47 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jun 18 14:01:12 2017. State speed limit is still 55 in the sense that, if you encounter a road outside of a municipality without a posted speed limit, it is 55.The city highway speed limit of 50 is stupid - going 59 I feel like I'm clogging up the road even in the right lane. The only way to "safely" (both in the legal and physical sense) travel through NYC highways is to always go as fast as the car in front of you and just ignore the speedometer. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Jun 19 01:15:54 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jun 18 23:12:04 2017. Yes, I understand that the term "superhighway" has never been used to refer to the Taconic. I was referring to the era when it was one of the few (somewhat) limited access highways in the area. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Jun 19 01:17:06 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by italianstallion on Sun Jun 18 23:20:04 2017. I know it has mileage-based exits. I didn't really pay attention to when it happened, nor did I realize it was the first such road in NY. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Jun 19 08:18:09 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Jun 19 01:06:47 2017. The only way to "safely" (both in the legal and physical sense) travel through NYC highways is to always go as fast as the car in front of you and just ignore the speedometer.But if you're in the back, wouldn't you be the one pulled over? |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Jun 19 08:21:33 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jun 18 14:01:12 2017. What are the newly rebuilt sections? May not be substantial enough to bother with new signage.Once on a highway, without congestion, I almost always feel I can do 70 safely (in terms of avoiding accidents), but one thing that always concerns me is the merging / acceleration onto the highway. I'm not sure that certain entrances on the Belt would be practical as they are now if traffic is moderate and everyone is zooming by you at 70. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jun 19 09:34:07 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by AlM on Mon Jun 19 01:15:54 2017. The Taconic also was not limited access. It was restricted access. Limited Access has no traffic signals. Parts of it today I believe are limited access. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jun 19 09:36:24 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by fdtutf on Mon Jun 19 00:18:14 2017. You are right about the second point.As far as your first point, that also baffles me why they designed it for 70. Possibly they want to keep the option open of raising the speed limit in the future. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jun 19 09:43:53 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Jun 19 01:06:47 2017. Not true.The default state 55 mph limit was rescinded a number of years back and signs were changed on many roads upstate increasing the limit to 65 mph or even 70 mph. You may be confused by the fact that when the 55 mph law went into effect all signs were changed to say "55 mph State Speed Limit." But when the law was repealed, those signs remained and never were removed unless the speed limit was raised on that portion of the highway. Guess our legislators felt it was a waste of money to change signs if the speed limit remained unchanged. But they didn't feel that was the case when the lower limit went into effect. Perhaps they believed that the law would come back one day, but it hasn't. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jun 19 09:53:02 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Jun 19 08:21:33 2017. In 2003, reconstruction of seven Belt Parkway bridges began including highway sections between those bridges. Those sections were built with shoulders and new entrances and exits, wider lanes, shoulders on both sides and built to expressway standards. When completed DOT will probably try to get trucks allowed on them. Perhaps that is the reason for the design.The project should have been completed last year but is about three years late. Newly completed portions exist between Pennsylvania Avenue just past Rockaway Parkway. The Mill Basin Bridge and Gerritsen Creek Bridge are nearing completion and should be done by the end if the year so there will in effect be a new roadway from Pennsylvania Avenue to Knapp Street. The Nostrand Avenue, Ocean Avenue and Sheepshead Bay Road bridges were also scheduled but I wouldn't be surprised if they ran out of money and they won't be done. Ocean Parkway and I believe Hendrix Creek were reconstructed a number of years ago before this program began. The 69 Street bridge was part of this program. Don't know if the rest of the Belt will be given the same treatment. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 19 12:55:21 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jun 19 09:43:53 2017. But when the law was repealed, those signs remained and never were removed unless the speed limit was raised on that portion of the highway.The law wasn't repealed. Exceptions were added for specific sections of roadway, but otherwise the maximum speed limit is still 55. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 19 13:05:43 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jun 18 14:01:12 2017. The newly rebuilt sections are designed for 70 mph which is why 50 makes no sense.This says the Paerdegat Basin bridge has a design speed of 60: http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/dot_bridgereport12_part2_overview.pdf#page=76 This says the Ocean Parkway bridge has a design speed of 50: http://www.cif.org/noms/2008/24_-_Ocean_Parkway_Belt_Bridge.pdf |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 19 13:07:31 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 19 13:05:43 2017. This says the Paerdegat Basin bridge has a design speed of 60Sorry, that should be the Fresh Creek bridge. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Jun 19 14:31:08 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jun 19 09:43:53 2017. signs were changed on many roads upstate increasing the limit to 65 mph or even 70 mph.Just limited access highways, right? And as far downstate as Rockland County for those. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jun 19 14:54:04 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by italianstallion on Sun Jun 18 23:20:04 2017. I-95 in the Bronx, I-890 in Schenectady, the Belt Parkway and I-781 to Fort Drum have mileage based exists. |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Jun 19 14:59:02 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jun 19 09:53:02 2017. The DOT has sole authority to authorize trucks on the Belt? Where would they be allowed? From Knapp to Pennsylvania? |
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Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Jun 19 15:11:56 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jun 19 14:54:04 2017. The Belt is mileage based on purpose or was it serendipitous? The same thing with the XBX it would seem to me. I don't know the other roads at all. |
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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
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Posted by fdtutf on Mon Jun 19 15:39:53 2017, in response to Re: SBS Will Not Solve Beach Commuter's Headaches, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jun 19 09:36:24 2017. I believe it is, or was, standard engineering practice to design highways for higher speeds than the actual intended speed limit. This was to provide a margin of safety.We now know that this doesn't work. |
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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jun 19 16:27:35 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by fdtutf on Mon Jun 19 15:39:53 2017. How do we know it doesn't work? Limited access roads with higher speeds have proven safer than two lane roads with driveways and traffic lights where the speed is slightly lower.And yes they are designed for slightly higher speeds of five or ten mph to provide a cushion of safety. That doesn't explain designing a road for 70 mph with a maximum allowed speed of 50. Skeptics believe this is done just so people will speed so that revenue can be obtained by localities. Someone told me he recently received a speeding ticket in Georgia because he was going at 83 mph. The officer instructed him to sign that he was doing 85 mph. He told the officer but I wasn't doing 85 mph. When he got home he found out my the officer insisted he admit to 85 mph. The fine for 83 mph was $225. The fine which he had to pay after admitting to 85 mph was $425. Now you tell me if the locality there was more concerned about safety or revenue. |
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