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| Re: Borough Prefix (296877) | |
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| (297848) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Sep 16 07:55:42 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Sep 15 16:51:49 2014. Admit it already. Spider-Pig pwn3d you, as I've been saying all along. |
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| (298027) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Sep 21 23:37:58 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by randyo on Mon Sep 15 17:52:08 2014. Thanks |
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| (298028) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Sep 21 23:38:37 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 11 22:34:12 2014. There was no TARS in 1975 which is the year we were talking about. |
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| (298056) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 22 12:06:10 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Sep 21 23:38:37 2014. NO SHIT! |
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| (298057) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 22 12:09:45 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Sep 21 23:38:37 2014. In any event, I am still not convinced that you are correct, because I am certain that the 72nd-57th Street crosstown (later M30) was called the 6X or 6-X at some point (at least on maps). There may have been other X-suffixed crosstown routes in the pre-express bus era. |
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| (298059) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Sep 22 12:55:04 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 22 12:09:45 2014. I am still not convinced that you are correctI like your style. |
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| (298060) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Sep 22 12:55:22 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 22 12:06:10 2014. +8 |
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| (298072) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by X-Astorian on Mon Sep 22 18:17:27 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 22 12:09:45 2014. "In any event, I am still not convinced that you are correct, because I am certain that the 72nd-57th Street crosstown (later M30) was called the 6X or 6-X at some point (at least on maps). There may have been other X-suffixed crosstown routes in the pre-express bus era."The bus route you describe, the #6, run by the Fifth Avenue Coach Company (later changed to Fifth Avenue Coach Lines in 1956) and MaBSTOA starting in March 1962, became M30 in the July 1, 1974, renumbering of Manhattan and Bronx routes. I've never seen any reference to it with an X in FACCO or NYCTA maps or any publications. |
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| (298076) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 22 19:37:11 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by X-Astorian on Mon Sep 22 18:17:27 2014. I have seen such a map. It may have been unofficial. In which case I'll retract because you're an authoritative poster. |
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| (298086) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Sep 22 22:07:26 2014, in response to Borough Prefix, posted by BusRider on Thu Aug 21 19:40:01 2014. I could never figure out why they didn't use "K" (Kings) prefix for Brooklyn buses and "B" for the Bronx ones! |
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| (298099) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Sep 23 08:39:21 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Sep 22 22:07:26 2014. Why hasn't anyone helped you out? |
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| (298102) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Sep 23 10:03:27 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Sep 22 22:07:26 2014. Confusion. The other question is why does Brooklyn get the plain B? Why isn't it Bk? |
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| (298159) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Sep 24 13:24:40 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Sep 23 10:03:27 2014. Because there is no reason for Bk if Bx is the Bronx. One letter is always preferable. I guess they didn't use K, which I've always wondered about too is that people don't think of Brooklyn as Kings and many would not associate a K with Brooklyn.Remember when Staten Island was R, when it was the Boough of Richmond? |
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| (298169) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Sep 24 16:41:06 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Sep 24 13:24:40 2014. But why is Bronx not B then? One letter may be preferable, but why does Brooklyn get the one letter? When and where was the earliest use of the borough prefix? |
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| (298205) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by WayneJay on Thu Sep 25 15:22:37 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Sep 24 16:41:06 2014. The way I see it... One borough had to get the extra letter. had it been Brooklyn... Folks probably would still be asking this question. |
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| (298206) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by WayneJay on Thu Sep 25 15:22:37 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Sep 24 16:41:06 2014. The way I see it... One borough had to get the extra letter. had it been Brooklyn... Folks probably would still be asking this question. |
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| (298295) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Sep 27 11:32:25 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Sep 24 16:41:06 2014. Brooklyn has many more bus routes and many more bus riders, so the extra letter for Bronx riders affected fewer riders. |
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| (298296) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Sep 27 11:35:42 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 22 19:37:11 2014. There was no X for crosstown routes in the 1970s. I know the crosstown trolleys once used an X so perhaps it was a holdover until the 1950s or 60s on some maps. |
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| (298326) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Sep 28 02:13:24 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Sep 27 11:32:25 2014. Seriously? That's your answer? |
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| (298327) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Sep 28 02:13:42 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Sep 27 11:35:42 2014. Don't try to suck up now. |
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| (298393) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Sep 30 09:03:22 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Sep 28 02:13:24 2014. You have a better reason? |
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| (298394) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Sep 30 09:04:06 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Sep 28 02:13:42 2014. I have no idea what you are talking about. |
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| (298398) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Tue Sep 30 11:11:24 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Sep 30 09:03:22 2014. No. And I don't need one. He's not looking for opinions. He's looking for the factual answer. I don't have the factual answer so I'm not going to provide a "reason". |
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| (298399) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Tue Sep 30 11:12:11 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Sep 30 09:04:06 2014. Forget it. No biggie. |
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| (298448) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Oct 1 13:57:44 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by TerrApin Station on Tue Sep 30 11:11:24 2014. I gave the reason which makes the most sense. |
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| (298451) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by TerrApin StatiON on Wed Oct 1 14:21:36 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Oct 1 13:57:44 2014. No, not necessarily. But even so, it doesn't matter what would make the most sense. It only matters why it was done. And you don't know why. And neither do I. That's what he's asking. He's perfectly capable on his own of coming up with reasons that make sense. But he's asking for the real reason. |
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| (298473) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Oct 2 09:17:03 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by TerrApin StatiON on Wed Oct 1 14:21:36 2014. But since it is next to impossible to determine the real reason, I did the next best thing just in case he had not thought of it, so my post was still worthwhile. |
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| (298481) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by terRAPIN sTaTiOn on Thu Oct 2 12:30:48 2014, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Oct 2 09:17:03 2014. But since it is next to impossible to determine the real reasonEither you know it or you don't. He's only interested in the former. I did the next best thing just in case he had not thought of itIf he wanted opinions or possibilities, he would have asked for such. so my post was still worthwhile.Not really. But I appreciate you trying. You're participation is welcome. |
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| (322309) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by W.B. on Fri Jan 20 22:11:23 2017, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Sep 5 22:46:50 2014. The "QM15" designation for the Jackson Heights - Fifth/Madison Avenues line would have been in effect from 1972 to the 1974 route numbering changes, and only on those buses with rollsigns made in '72 with Standard Medium a.k.a. Akzidenz Grotesk Bold in upper and lower case - and which would have coincided with the delivery of the first GM T6H-5309 (regular passenger) and -5310 (express) buses. Both NYCTA's First/Second Avenues line and MABSTOA's 23rd Street crosstown were designated M15 in that same 2-year period prior to the latter's being renamed M26, and QM15 rebranded M32, in 1974.I presume the route 16 out of Elmhurst, between 1972 and 1974, would have been designated Q16 before being renamed Q89? |
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| (322310) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by W.B. on Fri Jan 20 22:16:25 2017, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Sep 3 20:26:13 2014. The NYCTA Madison/Chambers Street line, prior to 1974, shared the same M1 designation as MABSTOA's Fifth/Madison Avenues line, before the TA line was rebranded M22 in 1974. Is that what you were asking? |
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| (322311) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jan 20 22:29:19 2017, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Sep 22 22:07:26 2014. Should they then have used "N" for New York County and "R" for Richmond County too? Where would that have left Nassau County? |
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| (322312) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jan 20 22:33:49 2017, in response to Borough Prefix, posted by BusRider on Thu Aug 21 19:40:01 2014. Slightly OT, but New Jersey went the other way, scrapping the county prefixes and going all-numerical; apparently they are still sticking with their old database that does not support prefixes. The "P" prefix for Passaic County, "M" for Middlesex and Monmouth Counties, and "B" for Bergen County are now gone, having held on through the late 1990s into the very early 2000s; would have liked to have seen "E" for Essex County (and possibly Union County too), maybe S for Somerset County, and perhaps the retention of the letter system of the former Mercer Metro. (The odd ones out were Morris County Metro, whose routes were prefixed "MCM" in NJT literature but were all numerical on the destination signs.) |
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| (322313) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 20 22:43:41 2017, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jan 20 22:29:19 2017. They did use R for the Borough of Richmond. |
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| (322314) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by northshore on Fri Jan 20 22:53:39 2017, in response to Borough Prefix, posted by BusRider on Thu Aug 21 19:40:01 2014. S is used for Richmond County and Suffolk County. R, once used for Richmond County is also used for Rockland County. |
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| (322315) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by northshore on Fri Jan 20 23:16:06 2017, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by W.B. on Fri Jan 20 22:11:23 2017. The Q-16 was and is the Flushing-Fort Totten route. |
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| (322316) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Sat Jan 21 00:21:10 2017, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by northshore on Fri Jan 20 22:53:39 2017. "W" used to be for Westchester. Now they unofficially use "BL" (Bee Line). |
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| (322320) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by W.B. on Sat Jan 21 08:32:21 2017, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by northshore on Fri Jan 20 23:16:06 2017. So would there have been route duplication in that borough, pre-1974, then? If so, no wonder MABSTOA's Elmhurst route was renamed Q89 (since discontinued). |
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| (322324) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by northshore on Sat Jan 21 11:49:31 2017, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by W.B. on Sat Jan 21 08:32:21 2017. You are correct. Both Fifth Avenue Coach routes (FACCO routes did not have prefixes) 15 Jackson Heights and 16 Elmhurst Crosstown needed new numbers so as not to conflict with other existing route numbers. |
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| (322350) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jan 22 12:32:07 2017, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Aug 30 14:43:17 2014. Also, there was a lot of duplication. You had the M15 (NYCTA) as well as the Route 15 (MaBSTOA) in the same borough. Plus you had the 15 coming over the 59 Street bridge terminating in Manhattan. That's three 15s in the same borough.And yes, colloquially, many did not bother with prefixes. I lived near East 51st Street in East Flatbush, Brooklyn, but the locals always omitted the East and just called it 51st Street. We had no connection with Borough Park so there was no confusion. |
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| (322406) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by W.B. on Tue Jan 24 00:08:39 2017, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by northshore on Sat Jan 21 11:49:31 2017. They didn't have prefices in FACCO days - but they sure did in the two years prior to the 1974 renumbering, though you wouldn't know it unless you were on a bus with newer rollsigns. |
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| (322855) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by W.B. on Mon Feb 20 21:14:01 2017, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by X-Astorian on Thu Sep 4 00:06:06 2014. The Jackson Heights route 15 wasn't the only one to have a QM designation between 1972 and 1974 when that route became M32. Another MaBSTOA route, Elmhurst crosstown #16, was designated QM16 in that same time period (it, like [QM]15, was assigned to the 54th Street depot in Manhattan) before it was renamed Q89 in '74. |
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| (322861) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by italianstallion on Tue Feb 21 16:41:00 2017, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by W.B. on Mon Feb 20 21:14:01 2017. So they assigned a QM number to a route that went nowhere near Manhattan just because the depot was in Manhattan. Weird. |
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| (322862) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by BusRider on Tue Feb 21 18:30:39 2017, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by italianstallion on Tue Feb 21 16:41:00 2017. Maybe to distinguish it from Manhattan based routes being the depot was in Manhattan. |
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| (322863) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 21 20:56:29 2017, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by terRAPIN sTaTiOn on Thu Oct 2 12:30:48 2014. Have you been banned? Haven't seen you on here in about a month. |
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| (322864) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Feb 21 22:07:27 2017, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 21 20:56:29 2017. I was wondering that myself |
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| (322872) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Feb 22 17:16:23 2017, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by BusRider on Tue Feb 21 18:30:39 2017. It could have just been renumbered Q32 from square 1 since there are many bus lines based in depots outside the boroughs their routes serve. Fresh Pond depot is physically in Queens yet it is part of the Bkln Bus Division. KIngsbridge and Mother Clara Hale )145 St) depots are both in Manhattan yet are part of MABSTOA Bronx Division. |
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| (322873) | |
Re: Borough Prefix |
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Posted by B1bus on Wed Feb 22 22:44:55 2017, in response to Re: Borough Prefix, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Feb 21 22:07:27 2017. This is a 3 year old post. |
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