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| B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St. (322333) | |
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| (322335) | |
Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St. |
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Posted by nyctransitman on Sat Jan 21 15:32:08 2017, in response to B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St., posted by Chicago44 on Sat Jan 21 14:48:53 2017. Sounds good to me. From what I remember the MTA was supposed to do that years ago and renumber the route the B86. I also think the B9 should be extended south along Shore Road to at least 86th Street or all the way to Fort Hamilton. |
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| (322336) | |
Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St. |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Jan 21 15:52:42 2017, in response to Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St., posted by nyctransitman on Sat Jan 21 15:32:08 2017. I think this business of numbering the buses for the street they run on is going a bit too far in places like Brooklyn where bus routings and street numberings are less consistent than they are in Manhattan. |
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| (322338) | |
Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 21 17:05:41 2017, in response to Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St., posted by randyo on Sat Jan 21 15:52:42 2017. I disagree. |
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| (322341) | |
Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St. |
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Posted by BrooklynTrain on Sat Jan 21 21:09:20 2017, in response to Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St., posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 21 17:05:41 2017. The route is already far too long as it is and suffers from severe bus bunching. There are sometimes 4 in a row during rush-hour in Bay Ridge and it is 100% full by the time it leaves 86th/4th. It should be split into two routes, 86/4th to 86th/25th and 86th/25th to the eastern terminal. |
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| (322342) | |
Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St. |
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Posted by Westcode44 on Sat Jan 21 21:31:50 2017, in response to B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St., posted by Chicago44 on Sat Jan 21 14:48:53 2017. Totally agree,,,WE-44 |
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| (322347) | |
Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jan 22 12:14:26 2017, in response to Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St., posted by randyo on Sat Jan 21 15:52:42 2017. It still can be done. Many shun using buses they are unfamiliar with. A common numbering system makes riders more comfortable and more likely to try new routes.I came up with a plan forty years ago that still can be used. For example, under my plan, Coney Island would become the B10, Ocean would be the B20, Nostrand the B30, Kingston Throop the B40, Utica the B50, Ralph the B60, Remsen the B90, etc. That makes a lot more sense than just using random unused bus numbers when numbers are being assigned. |
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| (322348) | |
Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jan 22 12:16:35 2017, in response to B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St., posted by Chicago44 on Sat Jan 21 14:48:53 2017. That is what I proposed back in 1975. The first part was implemented in 1978, and part two in 2010. Now it is time for Part three.However, some buses could continue to terminate at 4th Avenue depending on patronage levels. |
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| (322349) | |
Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jan 22 12:24:33 2017, in response to Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St., posted by BrooklynTrain on Sat Jan 21 21:09:20 2017. Route length is not the only cause for bus bunching. In Chicago routes are far longer than in New York, yet bunching is far less of a problem.My philosophy is that bus routes should be long to minimize the need for transferring, but service should be overlapping with buses operating from end to end at about 20 minute intervals since few ride a route from end to end. Prior to 1978 the eastern terminal was 25th Avenue (B34) with the B1 operating the remainder of the route over an alternate routing. That didn't work well at all and there still was bunching and that's why I changed it. I would have the base route at 20 minute intervals from 4th Avenue to Kingsborough with supplemental service from 4th Avenue, 18th Avenue, and Ocean Parkway to Kingsborough. |
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| (322355) | |
Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St. |
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Posted by Chicago44 on Sun Jan 22 13:25:06 2017, in response to Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St., posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jan 22 12:24:33 2017. What were you proposed changes back in 1975 BrooklynBus? |
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| (322357) | |
Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St. |
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Posted by Dan on Sun Jan 22 13:57:46 2017, in response to Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St., posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jan 22 12:14:26 2017. Then I guess the B8 would become the B18, the B6 the B22, etc.....B37 = B3 (3 Ave) B63 = B5 (5 Ave) B70 = B8 (8 Ave) B16 = B13 (13 ave) B11 = B49 (for 49 St portion) B9 = B60 (60 Street) B4 = B75 (Bay Ridge Pkway aka 75 St) B3 = B25 (for 25 Ave portion) Between 1987 and 1990 the way overdue Staten Island bus routes were redesigned and renumbered. When the current SI Bus Study is completed we might see another renumbering. |
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| (322358) | |
Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St. |
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Posted by Dan on Sun Jan 22 14:08:45 2017, in response to Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St., posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jan 22 12:16:35 2017. I remember the 1978 Brooklyn bus changes. Was so strange to see B11 buses running along Avenue I. I remember various other routing proposals prior to implementation. |
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| (322359) | |
Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St. |
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Posted by Chicago44 on Sun Jan 22 14:32:50 2017, in response to Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St., posted by Dan on Sun Jan 22 14:08:45 2017. What were the other routing proposals prior to implementation Dan? |
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| (322360) | |
Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St. |
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Posted by Dan on Sun Jan 22 14:44:10 2017, in response to Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St., posted by Chicago44 on Sun Jan 22 14:32:50 2017. B11 via Ocean Parkway instead of Coney Island Avenue, and some bus route via West 6th Street. Brooklyn Bus will have better info on this. |
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| (322366) | |
Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St. |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Jan 22 17:10:39 2017, in response to Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St., posted by Chicago44 on Sun Jan 22 13:25:06 2017. They were implemented to what you see in South Brooklyn today. |
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| (322371) | |
Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jan 22 19:02:27 2017, in response to Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St., posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Jan 22 17:10:39 2017. My proposals were much more than what was implemented. Only about 25 percent of what I proposed actually was done. I also proposed through 13th Avenue and Fort Hamilton Parkway service. I proposed terminating the B16 at Fourth Avenue (except for school trips to Fort Hamilton HS and running the B86 to Shore Road then take over the B16 portion on Shore Road. An alternate was to terminate the B86 at Shore and 86th and extend the B9 down to Shore and Third.Instead of flipping the B64 and the B1, (which I eliminated as an option after seeing the results of our passenger survey) I proses to hook up the left over portion of the B34 on Bay Ridge Avenue with the B23 on 16th Avenue using 65 Street. (A more expensive option was to extend the 65th Street route to hook up with the B2.) also the Cortelyou Road portion of the B23 was to become the 13th Avenue route and the 16th Avenue portion hook up with the B69 so that the B23 no longer would parallel the B8 for its entire run. |
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| (322372) | |
Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jan 22 19:03:03 2017, in response to Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St., posted by Chicago44 on Sun Jan 22 13:25:06 2017. See my response to Bill from Maspeth. |
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| (322374) | |
Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jan 22 19:12:39 2017, in response to Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St., posted by Dan on Sun Jan 22 13:57:46 2017. Almost right. I preferred the B60 for Ralph Avenue, so I would have called the B9 the B59 instead, but those two could be interchanged. I would not have called the B3 the B25 because it only used the street for a few blocks.In Bed Stuy, the crosstown routes all would have ended with "1" starting with 11 (Flushing), 21 Crosstown, 31 Myrtle, 41 DeKalb, 51 Gates, 61 Putnam Halsey, 71 Fulton. Don't remember right now how I handled the rest of the borough. |
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| (322375) | |
Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jan 22 19:14:09 2017, in response to Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St., posted by Dan on Sun Jan 22 14:08:45 2017. Yes Avenue I residents tried to stop the bus from using that street. |
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| (322376) | |
Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jan 22 19:40:56 2017, in response to Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St., posted by Dan on Sun Jan 22 14:44:10 2017. I suggested the B11 initially terminate at Coney Island Avenue. I think I proposed that it use Ocean Parkway to return to Avenue I. But the MTA wanted to serve the Brighton Station which I didn't think was necessary. I was trying to be conservative to save costs and if successful, only then would I have extended the B11 further eastward.But the MTA wanted to do it right away. In fact they wanted it to run to Rockaway Parkway using the existing B6 buses which it actually did for like three years. It may gave been longer. I don't remember. The community cited Avenue J traffic and the route length would make the route would be too unreliable. They said Brooklyn College is as far as it should go. But the MTA refused giving them an alternative of 18th Avenue it Rockaway Parkway. Take it or leave it so reluctantly they agreed to Rockaway Parkway. It turned out that the community knew more about planning bus service than the MTA and several year later that became the terminus. The other change the MTA made to my plan was to run the B36 and B74 on Myrtle eliminating done Surf Avenue service. That caused 500 people to demonstrate in the streets forcing the return of Surf Avenue service three months later. There was only one written protest to my service changes from one person living on Avenue X not happy with the elimination of B1 service on Avenue X east of Ocean Parkway. As far as West 6th Street, I did not propose that the B4 operate from Bay Ridge to Knapp Street. I thought the route was too long. My B4 would have continued on Stillwell to Coney Island Terminal and the B21 would have operated from Stillwell along Neptune to Knapp Street using the current loop to Sheepshead Bay Station. It was the MTA who proposed that it be one route and they first countered my Stillwell routing with the West 6th Street routing. After residents got wind of what was planned they made their objections known and the MTA relented by keeping it on Stilwell. I forgot to mention in my other reply that my 1975 proposals also called for combining the B64 and B74 due to the high numbers of students transferring. But Bensonhurst opposed that purely for racial reasons. I then dropped that and then proposed the B74 be combined with the B68, but Coney Island objected to that one fearing loss of reliability on the B74. So my final proposal was just to extend the B68 to Stillwell from West 5th which was not done many years later when the temporary extension due to subway suspension between Coney Island and Brighton due to rehab work was made permanent. I also proposed in 1975 the B50 extension from Canal Avenue to Stillwell. That also was done many years later I think after it became the B82, but maybe before. Finally in 1975, I proposed extending the R7 (later the S7, then the S53) to be extended from 95 Street to 86th Street. That also became reality many years later. How long if ever until the MTA realizes that my other ideas also have merit? I don't think I will be alive to see it. |
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| (322379) | |
Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St. |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Jan 22 23:13:14 2017, in response to Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St., posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jan 22 19:40:56 2017. Extension to Stillwell was September 2002. The B82 had already been in existence since the mid 90s. |
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| (322381) | |
Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jan 22 23:40:36 2017, in response to Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St., posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jan 22 19:12:39 2017. The B3 could be called the B21 as U is the 21st letter. On most (not all) streets, the block south of Avenue U is the 2100 block. |
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| (322382) | |
Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jan 22 23:51:24 2017, in response to Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St., posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Jan 22 23:13:14 2017. B5+B50=B82 was in 1995. |
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| (322386) | |
Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St. |
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Posted by Dan on Mon Jan 23 09:20:17 2017, in response to Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St., posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jan 22 19:14:09 2017. May have been an error but IIRC some maps of the 1978 changes showed the B11 taking 50th Street to Dahill Road, then left on Avenue J. |
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| (322387) | |
Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St. |
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Posted by Dan on Mon Jan 23 09:28:44 2017, in response to Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St., posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jan 22 19:02:27 2017. Then your 'B23 13th Avenue' would have taken Cortelyou to a left on Dahill, right on 39 Street, left on 13 Ave, or via Cortelyou, right on Dahill, left on 14 Ave or 12 Ave, etc. |
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| (322389) | |
Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 23 11:27:40 2017, in response to Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St., posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jan 22 23:40:36 2017. Certainly a possibility. |
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| (322390) | |
Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 23 11:28:53 2017, in response to Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St., posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jan 22 23:40:36 2017. But that would require a different system for Bed Stuy. You couldn't end each route with one as I proposed. |
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| (322391) | |
Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 23 11:31:30 2017, in response to Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St., posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Jan 22 23:13:14 2017. So it was the B82. That means I proposed the extension to Coney Island 20 years earlier and it was rejected then. |
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| (322392) | |
Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 23 11:34:03 2017, in response to Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St., posted by Dan on Mon Jan 23 09:20:17 2017. Don't recall it ever using Avenue J from Dahill. I can check the original map from 1978 to make certain. |
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| (322393) | |
Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 23 11:36:00 2017, in response to Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St., posted by Dan on Mon Jan 23 09:28:44 2017. The first part of your statement is correct. Remember that was before 13th Avenue was made a one way north of 60 Street. |
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| (322395) | |
Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St. |
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Posted by Dan on Mon Jan 23 11:55:02 2017, in response to Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St., posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 23 11:36:00 2017. Paired with 14th Avenue. Always thought the NYCDOT would do the same with 18th & 19th Avenues from 60th Street south. |
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| (322396) | |
Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St. |
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Posted by Dan on Mon Jan 23 11:56:39 2017, in response to Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St., posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 23 11:34:03 2017. The B11 never did, but the early proposal maps showed it on Ave. J. |
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| (322401) | |
Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 23 15:28:05 2017, in response to Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St., posted by Dan on Mon Jan 23 11:56:39 2017. Don't remember that. I proposed Ave I from the beginning and the MTA never objected to that, only the residents. |
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| (322402) | |
Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St. |
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Posted by Dan on Mon Jan 23 15:30:04 2017, in response to Re: B1 should be extended to Shore Rd/86th St., posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 23 15:28:05 2017. Could also be my faulty memory after all these years. |
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