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(299933)

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Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by Gold_12th on Fri Nov 14 23:59:16 2014

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confirmed by WNYC radio reporter

Most of the drivers won't obey the 25 mph speed limit. lol.

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(299936)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by Newkirk Images on Sat Nov 15 08:04:41 2014, in response to Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by Gold_12th on Fri Nov 14 23:59:16 2014.

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The retiming of the traffic signals will insure this.

Bill Newkirk

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(299937)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Nov 15 09:39:42 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by Newkirk Images on Sat Nov 15 08:04:41 2014.

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People are dumb, though. With the timed signals they'll speed up to 40+, stop, speed back up to 40+ again, stop again. . .wasting their own gas and honking/high-beaming at the people who drive normally.

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(299943)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Nov 15 12:06:34 2014, in response to Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by Gold_12th on Fri Nov 14 23:59:16 2014.

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Shows how DOT just caves into political pressure. Just a few months ago Trottenberg was quoted as saying that our engineers believe that 30 mph is the proper speed limit for Queens Blvd. So what caused her to change her mind if not for political pressure?

No one listened when he speed limit was lowered to 30 mph, and they won't listen to the 25 mph limit. But the city will make a fortune on tickets.

The limit for the center roadway needs to be 40 mph, not 25. The city has totally lost the concept of what an arterial road supposed to be and has decided to turn them all into local streets without considering all the ramifications this will cause.

It's about time for the silent majority to end their silence. This is just nonsense.

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(299948)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by sloth on Sat Nov 15 14:56:03 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Nov 15 12:06:34 2014.

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If Jimmy McMillan forms "The Speed Limit's Too Damn Low" Party, he's got my vote.

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(299950)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by hound on Sat Nov 15 16:19:46 2014, in response to Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by Gold_12th on Fri Nov 14 23:59:16 2014.

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25 mph on queens Blvd? Who thinks up this insanity?

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(299953)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Nov 15 17:50:00 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by sloth on Sat Nov 15 14:56:03 2014.

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Mine too.

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(299954)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Nov 15 17:52:08 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by hound on Sat Nov 15 16:19:46 2014.

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Rego Park has been making a lt of noise lately. Transportation Alternatives must be helping them out. If TA wants something, they get it. Maybe they are paying people off. With all the corruption, who knows. It only takes 40 years for the truth to come out.,

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(299955)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by QTLC on Sat Nov 15 17:53:13 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Nov 15 17:52:08 2014.

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I know that one of their organizers lives in Rego Park.

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(299956)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by Newkirk Images on Sat Nov 15 18:02:42 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Nov 15 09:39:42 2014.

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People are dumb, though. With the timed signals they'll speed up to 40+, stop, speed back up to 40+ again, stop again. . .wasting their own gas and honking/high-beaming at the people who drive normally.

This is true.

Bill Newkirk


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(299958)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Nov 15 19:31:22 2014, in response to Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by Gold_12th on Fri Nov 14 23:59:16 2014.

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It's difficult to notice that Queens Blv is changing, while speeding along it at 40+ mph. Several new tall buildings have appeared within the past few years. Many more are on the drawing board.

Developers have set their cross-hairs on the stretch between Roosevelt Ave and the LIE. The Queens Blv frontage is relatively unpopulated. You can expect to see it transformed to high density development complete with street shops within the next five to ten years.

The new residents will not want to play dodge ball with speeding cars on Queens Blv. They will not want to walk 1/4 mile to cross Queens Blv either. Queens Blv's days as a pseudo limited access highway are numbered. So is its speed limit. It's going to become a street for residents and shoppers. P.S. these new residents and shoppers will contribute more taxes than cars and trucks speeding to Nassau and Suffolk Counties.

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(299968)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by fdtutf on Sat Nov 15 21:33:50 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Nov 15 12:06:34 2014.

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No one listened when he speed limit was lowered to 30 mph, and they won't listen to the 25 mph limit. But the city will make a fortune on tickets.

If they're not listening, then they're getting tickets by choice.

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(299969)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Nov 15 22:00:34 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Nov 15 19:31:22 2014.

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So you consider jaywalking to be acceptable? Why not make Queens Blvd a shared street then? I'm sure you'd enjoy that.

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(299973)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Nov 15 23:46:11 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Nov 15 22:00:34 2014.

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Why not make Queens Blvd a shared street then?

Streets are shared in an urban environment. They must accommodate all types of traffic - especially pedestrians.

So you consider jaywalking to be acceptable?

Accommodating pedestrians means street crossings must be provided at walkable intervals. Otherwise, you have created a limited access highway at grade - with its accompanying blight.

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(299977)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Nov 16 09:50:28 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Nov 15 23:46:11 2014.

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Accommodating pedestrians means street crossings must be provided at walkable intervals.

Don't there already exist stoplights on Queens Blvd that are meant exclusively to accommodate pedestrians (no cross-vehicle traffic)?

I don't think the speed limit will be what slows Queens Blvd down. If population / activity grows on the more dormant stretches near Woodside, all that will mean is that those stretches look the way the Forest Hills stretch (approximately Yellowstone Blvd to Union Tpke) does now. Is there something I'm missing?

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(299979)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Nov 16 10:08:30 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Nov 15 23:46:11 2014.

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Queens Blvd was designed as a restricted access highway as many other streets in the city. That was because a limited access highway was needed and wasn't practical to build. Turning every restricted access highway into a local street would be a disaster for this city because it woud be very difficult to get anywhere. Yet the selfishness of people who are never in a car couldn't care less about everyone else.

Queens Blvd has a separate main roadway for a good portion of it where a 40 mph mph is totally appropriate, not a ridiculous 25 mph. There are no parked cars and there shouldn't be any pedestrians jumping over fences to cross. With adequate timing of amber lights, there would be enough time to slow down and stop at traffic lights.

Anyone who moves to Queens Blvd knows it is an arterial roadway. For them to expect to cross the street at every intersection is the same as someone buying a house by a train to expect it to be torn down or the noise eliminated because they do not like it. You don't like the noise, don't move next door to a train. You want to be able to cross at every single corner, move somewhere else, not to Queens Blvd.



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(299980)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Nov 16 10:14:00 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Nov 16 09:50:28 2014.

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There is one crossing that I am familiar with where there is no vehicles. But rather than it being activated when someone has to cross, every car is forced to stop every two minutes for no reason at all other than to waste gas and cause air pollution. It is used as a speed control.

As far as your second point, you really need to consider the main roadway and the service road as two separate streets. The service roads could be totally congested as you point out near Yellowstone, but the main road is moving just fine.

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(299981)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Nov 16 10:15:28 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Nov 16 09:50:28 2014.

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Don't there already exist stoplights on Queens Blvd that are meant exclusively to accommodate pedestrians (no cross-vehicle traffic)?

Only about every other block on average. That's in the Rego Park to Kew Gardens area. The railings that are designed to prevent pedestrians from crossing mid-block extend through these non-intersections.

If population / activity grows on the more dormant stretches near Woodside, all that will mean is that those stretches look the way the Forest Hills stretch (approximately Yellowstone Blvd to Union Tpke) does now.

The mere presence of pedestrian activity has not slowed down cars between Elmhurst and Kew Gardens. NYC will have to tame all of Queens Blv, if it hopes to derive money from new buildings in the under-developed sections.

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(299982)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Nov 16 11:19:36 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Nov 15 23:46:11 2014.

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Putting street crossings with traffic lights at more frequent intervals does not require lowering the speed limit.

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(299983)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Nov 16 11:22:42 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Nov 16 10:15:28 2014.

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Presence of pedestrian activity where? Crossing in mid-block where they are not supposed to cross anyway?

If you are talking about the speed at the corners, that speed is zero when pedestrians are crossing on the green light. Do you want o make the speed less than zero? The speed mid-block has nothing to do with the speed at the corners.



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(299984)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Nov 16 11:24:20 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Nov 15 23:46:11 2014.

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And you just said there are street crossings at every other block. So you are proposing that there should be a street crossing every 250 feet?

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(299990)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Nov 16 19:06:09 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Nov 15 17:50:00 2014.

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Even though he's a flaming anti-semite??

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(299991)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Nov 16 19:17:56 2014, in response to Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by Gold_12th on Fri Nov 14 23:59:16 2014.

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sucks for those people who drive on it

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(300000)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by fdtutf on Sun Nov 16 19:55:52 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Nov 16 10:08:30 2014.

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Those may be your plans, but obviously the city, which needs to accommodate additional residential development, has other plans.

Your post perfectly illustrates the entitled attitude that motorists tend to have. Motorists tend to think they have a God-given right to claim a disproportionate share of the space in the city, and other people's needs just don't matter.

You sound like a transportation planner from about 1970. Even this reasonably well-informed amateur knows that a great deal has changed since then.

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(300002)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Nov 16 20:26:16 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Nov 16 10:08:30 2014.

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Exactly. It is not the job of government to save people from themselves. As for that particularly wide segment between 49 and 58 Streets, one side is on a cemetery, but people need to use their brains. You don't hear these complaints with a similarly-designed Linden Boulevard (east of Remsen).

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(300003)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Sun Nov 16 20:28:12 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Nov 16 10:14:00 2014.

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There is one crossing that I am familiar with where there is no vehicles. But rather than it being activated when someone has to cross, every car is forced to stop every two minutes for no reason at all other than to waste gas and cause air pollution. It is used as a speed control.

The signal system is coordinated, so if you're going the speed limit you shouldn't be stopping.

As far as your second point, you really need to consider the main roadway and the service road as two separate streets. The service roads could be totally congested as you point out near Yellowstone, but the main road is moving just fine.

Except pedestrians have to cross both of them. Also, the speeds can't be different without messing up the aforementioned coordination.

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(300011)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by Gold_12th on Sun Nov 16 22:21:52 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Nov 16 19:17:56 2014.

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like you? crazy guy

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(300014)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Nov 16 22:50:44 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by Gold_12th on Sun Nov 16 22:21:52 2014.

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no? like the crazy guys

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(300016)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by Kevin from Midwood on Sun Nov 16 22:53:21 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Sun Nov 16 20:28:12 2014.

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The signal system is coordinated, so if you're going the speed limit you shouldn't be stopping.

How coordinated is it when a quiet, narrow one-way street appears second on a list of collisions on Ocean Parkway? Anecdotally, the several times I've taken the B68 southbound from Kings Highway during hours when the bus cruised through several avenues south of Avenue U without needing to stop, it always ended up waiting at a red light at Crawford Avenue.

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(300018)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by Gold_12th on Sun Nov 16 23:16:16 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Nov 16 22:50:44 2014.

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Brian Crazy Whineburg

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(300024)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by TerrApin Station on Mon Nov 17 07:32:18 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by Gold_12th on Sun Nov 16 23:16:16 2014.

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Crazy is my Christian name.

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(300025)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by R36 #9346 on Mon Nov 17 08:23:00 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Nov 16 20:26:16 2014.

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The cemetery actually begins at 51st Street.

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(300026)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Nov 17 08:41:11 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Nov 16 22:50:44 2014.

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Wild and crazy guys?

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(300030)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by BrianB on Mon Nov 17 10:25:31 2014, in response to Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by Gold_12th on Fri Nov 14 23:59:16 2014.

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I was going to say 25mph is okay because Queens Blvd gets horribly congested during much of the day, especially those accursed damned service roads...

If they could have differential speeds (35mph on main, 20mph on service), but that would become unenforceable, and drivers would ignore them.

Just figure, the streets might hold up better with the lower speeds.

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(300032)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by Gold_12th on Mon Nov 17 10:44:11 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by TerrApin Station on Mon Nov 17 07:32:18 2014.

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Crazy is you, unibrow whineburger.

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(300039)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by terRAPIN station on Mon Nov 17 12:45:46 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by Gold_12th on Mon Nov 17 10:44:11 2014.

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No, that sounds like my Ugandian name.

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(300040)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by terRAPIN station on Mon Nov 17 12:46:14 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Nov 17 08:41:11 2014.

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perhaps

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(300043)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by Gold_12th on Mon Nov 17 13:24:51 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by terRAPIN station on Mon Nov 17 12:45:46 2014.

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Brian Whineburger lol

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(300051)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by Kriston Lewis on Mon Nov 17 16:38:34 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by fdtutf on Sun Nov 16 19:55:52 2014.

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You were the 300,000th post on SubChat.

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(300052)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by Kriston Lewis on Mon Nov 17 16:39:10 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by Kriston Lewis on Mon Nov 17 16:38:34 2014.

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I meant BusChat. D'oh!

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(300059)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by N6 Limited on Mon Nov 17 19:14:07 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Nov 16 20:26:16 2014.

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Nor Grand Concourse

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(300060)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by N6 Limited on Mon Nov 17 19:18:08 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by BrianB on Mon Nov 17 10:25:31 2014.

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I will never understand this argument, if the streets are already "horribly congested" then a speed limit serves what purpose?

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(300066)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by Kriston Lewis on Mon Nov 17 21:54:20 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Nov 16 20:26:16 2014.

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You don't hear these complaints with a similarly-designed Linden Boulevard (east of Remsen).
There probably are complaints, but no one listens to them.

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(300074)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Nov 18 09:04:50 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Sun Nov 16 20:28:12 2014.

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It is only coordinated during the peak hours in the peak direction.

Okay let's say I am speeding. Then if you are correct, I should have to stop at every intersection because I am arriving there too early. But that is not what happens. I make five or six lights in a row then just as I arrive at the pedestrian crossing I must hit my brakes and stop for about a minute. and guess what? No one is even crossing.

And yes you can time all the lights for the main roadway. The service roads don't matter since there is so much traffic there those drivers couldn't take advantage of signal used timing anyway. You certainly can have different speed limits for the main roadway and or the service roads. The main road should be 40. If you want the service roads at 25, fine because you usually can't go faster than that anyway because of traffic. No need to make everyone suffer.

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(300076)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Nov 18 09:13:40 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by fdtutf on Sun Nov 16 19:55:52 2014.

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I am claiming a disproportionate amount of the roadway? There are many more people in cars than there are in buses on Woodhaven Blvd. On weekdays, over 60 percent are in cars, yet the city is going to put in exclusive bus lanes which will provide a small be benefit for bus riders, but reducing capacity for others by 25% will greatly inconvenience cars, trucks and taxis.. An exclusive bus lane is disproportionately amount of the roadway for buses.


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(300078)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Nov 18 11:29:39 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Nov 18 09:13:40 2014.

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On weekdays, over 60 percent are in cars...but reducing capacity for others by 25%

So, cars with 60% of the traffic will be left with 75% of the roadway capacity. Aren't cars getting 20% (15% of 75%) more than they deserve?

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(300080)

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Tue Nov 18 13:04:23 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Nov 15 12:06:34 2014.

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The limit for the center roadway needs to be 40 mph, not 25. The city has totally lost the concept of what an arterial road supposed to be and has decided to turn them all into local streets without considering all the ramifications this will cause.

Are you a licensed NY State Professional Engineer to make that determination?

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by N6 Limited on Tue Nov 18 13:50:40 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Nov 18 09:04:50 2014.

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Exactly

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Nov 18 17:39:18 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Nov 18 11:29:39 2014.

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No because buses don't have to use the bus lanes if they do not want to. They can also and will use the auto traffic lanes because sometimes the bus lane is a bus stop and buses will have to go around stopped buses if they are not stopping. On the other hand through auto traffic must use the auto lanes which they now will have to share with trucks which presently are prohibited from the main roadway. It's not a question of simple arithmetic. You alsomhavebto consider hs much time the buses will actually save which in non-rush hours would be zero from exclusive lanes. All the time saved will be from fare pre-payment. On the other hand, other hand with 25% of te capacity reduced, travel times for cars and trucks will be increased by about 25%.

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Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year

Posted by hound on Wed Nov 19 18:02:08 2014, in response to Re: Queens Blvd speed limit will be 25 mph by the end of this year, posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Tue Nov 18 13:04:23 2014.

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Does he have to be?

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