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Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Thu Apr 10 19:13:34 2014, in response to Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by Gold_12th on Thu Apr 10 14:13:09 2014. Bushwick Expressway please |
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| (292089) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by sloth on Thu Apr 10 19:16:39 2014, in response to Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by Gold_12th on Thu Apr 10 14:13:09 2014. No, no, no, no, no.Driving east-west in Brooklyn is horrible enough as it is. Funny how the anti-Bloomberg backlash elected another Bloomberg. |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by hound on Fri Apr 11 19:13:52 2014, in response to Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by Gold_12th on Thu Apr 10 14:13:09 2014. 25 mph? Are you kidding? Talk about unrealistic. I can just see everyone doing 25 mph at say, 11 or 12 0'clock at night on a 3-lane highway like Atlantic with very little traffic. |
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| (292187) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by B49 Limited on Sun Apr 13 01:10:52 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by hound on Fri Apr 11 19:13:52 2014. IAWTP |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 13 07:20:12 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by hound on Fri Apr 11 19:13:52 2014. I can just see everyone doing 25 mph at say, 11 or 12 0'clock at night on a 3-lane highway like Atlantic with very little traffic.That's precisely the time when most pedestrians are being struck and killed/injured. It's people going to or returning from third shift jobs or an evening's entertainment. |
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| (292195) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Apr 13 09:51:53 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 13 07:20:12 2014. How many of these are jaywalkers? |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Apr 13 10:08:17 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Apr 13 09:51:53 2014. According to the idiots who support this, it doest matter if you are jaywalking. You should always be driving slow enough to be able to stop or them. Pedestrians and cyclists have no responsibilities and all drivers must suffer. |
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| (292197) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 13 10:09:06 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Apr 13 09:51:53 2014. Motorists are partly or wholly to blame in about 70% of all pedestrian fatalities. The breakdown is about 50% wholly to blame and 20% shared responsibility. The most frequent violations are: going through red light; failure to yield and speeding. |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 13 10:19:37 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Apr 13 10:08:17 2014. That's already the law and has been for many years.NYC Traffic Rules - Sect. 4-04 "(d) Operators to exercise due care. Notwithstanding other provisions of these rules, the operator of a vehicle shall exercise due care to avoid colliding with any pedestrian." |
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| (292201) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Apr 13 10:59:28 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 13 10:19:37 2014. Who said drivers shouldn't exercise due care? Of course they should. Just because someone is jaywalking, does not give the driver the right to run someone over.What you just said has nothing to do with what I was saying. |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 13 11:12:28 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Apr 13 10:59:28 2014. Who said drivers shouldn't exercise due care?They have not been in 70% of the collisions that involve pedestrians. The purpose for the 25 mph limit is to make such collisions less lethal. Speed is the principal determining factor in the severity of pedestrian injuries. Here are the grim statistics: 20 mph - 5% fatalities 30 mph - 45% fatalities 40 mph - 85% fatalities 50 mph - 100% fatalities There is also the question of collision avoidance. 1.0 second is used as the criterion for setting the traffic signal yellow change interval. That 1 second translates to 30, 45, 60 and 75 feet travelled for 20, 30, 40 and 50 mph, respectively. |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Sun Apr 13 13:30:05 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 13 10:09:06 2014. Speeding was a factor, the actual cause was pedestrian negligence. |
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| (292206) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 13 14:15:59 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by N6 Limited on Sun Apr 13 13:30:05 2014. From the Vision Zero Action Plan:"Crashes often have multiple contributing factors, including driver inattention, speeding, failure to yield to pedestrians in the crosswalk, use of alcohol, crossing midblock or crossing against the traffic signal, and other factors such as weather and darkness. Collision Reports, which are generally completed by police officers, include information on driver and pedestrian actions at the time of the crash and apparent contributing factors. The DOT has analyzed all NYC traffic crashes from 2008 to 2012, providing a robust, reliable dataset from which to understand the nature and causes of crashes. Dangerous driver choices are the primary or contributing factor in 70% of pedestrian fatalities. These fatalities have potential causes outside of the pedestrian’s control, with the remaining 30% of the fatalities having a documented error by the pedestrian with no apparent error by the driver. In 53% of pedestrian fatalities (where the factors are known), dangerous driver choices—such as inattention, speeding, failure to yield—are the main causes of the crash. The pedestrians in these cases were following the law: crossing with a traffic signal, crossing in the crosswalk at an un-signalized intersection, or were not in the roadway. In the other 47% of pedestrian fatalities, pedestrian choices such as crossing midblock or crossing against the traffic signal are contributing factors. However, in more than one-third of the cases involving poor pedestrian choices—17% of all pedestrian fatalities with sufficient information—poor driver choices or other external factors also contributed to the fatality." |
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| (292209) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Apr 13 15:29:12 2014, in response to Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by Gold_12th on Thu Apr 10 14:13:09 2014. Instead of reducing the speed, how about reducing critical stretches of Atlantic Avenue from 3 lanes to 2? (Between 6 Avenue and Rockaway Boulevard, Atlantic Avenue is 3 lanes.) |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Apr 13 16:18:02 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 13 11:12:28 2014. How do you expect a driver to exercise due care when a pedestrian crosses in the middle of the street and misjudges the speed of the car thinking he can beat it across and then gets hit in spite of the driver's best attempt to stop or swerve?Yes the driver is always wrong and the pedestrian always right. Sorry, bit that is not true. I once saw a pedestrian do just that and was most likely killed because of it. The pedestrian and the car both took the same evasive action. The pedestrian speeded up to out run the car and the driver swerved to avoid him so they both collided. If only one took evasive action, there would have been no accident. The pedestrian who was jaywalking was definitely wrong and unfortunately paid the price. So let's make all good drivers suffer by adding countless minutes to their trips costing God knows how many dollars, so pedestrians can continue to be careless. Narrowing roads, more traffic lights, and slowing traffic are always the answer. DOT would never considering extending the time limit of amber lights to make it easier to stop or better signage, or merging lanes without any prior warning, or sudden left and right turn lanes that appear out of nowhere without prior warnings. There are other ways to increase safety besides making it impossible to travel anywhere. Then you will say but saving a human life is more important than anything else and is worth some sacrifices. Vision Zero is admirable but unattainable. By your logic all roads should have a ten mph speed limit to cut the fatality rate further. Why not? Isn't saving lives the most important goal of all. If drug companies used Vision Zero in developing new drugs, there would be no drugs on the market at all. |
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| (292212) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by merrick1 on Sun Apr 13 16:25:13 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Apr 13 09:51:53 2014. The design of Atlantic Avenue encourages jaywalking. There are many intersections with no signal, no crosswalk, and no break in the median. There are bus stops at some of these un-signaled intersections. If someone gets off the bus across the street from where he wants to go he isn't going to walk a block to the light, cross the street, and walk back a block. |
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| (292213) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Apr 13 16:44:42 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 13 11:12:28 2014. Even better, they should just close the road entirely. If no one is allowed to drive on it, there will be 0 fatalities on the road.Once upon a time, there was a thing known as "personal responsibility". |
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| (292215) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 13 16:55:16 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Apr 13 15:29:12 2014. My own interest is reducing vehicular speed at all times. There are many ways to accomplish this. Changing the legal speed limit is one strategy. It's the least expensive strategy. Its weakness is that it depends on drivers know what the default speed limit is and to obey it. This has proved difficult on arterial streets.Other strategies rely on some form of traffic calming to make motorists to slow down. Reducing lane count and width is another. Others involve pavement treatments like speed bumps, paving intersections with cobblestones, raising intersections, etc. Still others involve having traffic signals turn red, when speeding is detected. It does not take much imagination to see how cars can be outfitted to reduce vehicular speed. There are smartphone apps that sound alarms, when a speed is exceeded. The problem with the smartphone app is that the driver has to manually set the alarm speed. However, OnStar and similar devices can be set to automatically sound an alarm when the legal speed limit is exceeded. Smartphones could also be automatically set. However, probing the current location via GPS would be a big battery drain. Financial incentives can also be employed. Insurance companies can install black boxes that record location and speed. They can offer big insurance discounts (say 33%) to drivers that don't speed. |
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| (292217) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Apr 13 18:20:53 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 13 16:55:16 2014. It is a known fact that when speed limits are set too low for what a roadway was designed for, no one will obey so there wil be no difference in fatalities. Just go to Queens Blvd where it is perfectly safe to drive at 40 in the main roadway and the speed limit had been 35. It was lowered to 30, and everyone still drives between 35 and 40 when traffic permits, because that is what makes sense.We need to get paces faster not slower. I won't even comment on your big brother techniques which you probably woud also apply to highways. If you were a driver, you would never talk the way you do. You want to impose your will on everyone even if 95% of the people disagree with you. There are many factors that cause crashes. Excessive speed, and I said excessive speed not going a few miles over the speed limit, is only one cause. It should not be considered a cure all to lower speed limits all over to reduce crashes and that is exactly what you are doing. We need a multi-pronged approach that does not paralyze the City. |
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| (292218) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Apr 13 18:27:41 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by merrick1 on Sun Apr 13 16:25:13 2014. Go to any small town. You will see clearly marked pedestrian crossings with stripes and signage at every corner and signs all over to watch for pedestrians and signs not to jaywalk. Here we wait until the crosswalk is totally obliterated before we even repaint the two lines.But doing a good job to mark the crossings costs too much money. It's so much easier to,post a few new speed limit signs that no one will listen to until you put in cameras to fine everyone so the city can cash in on the revenue. If drivers start to listen, then there will be no fines to collect. The city won't like that either. |
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| (292220) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 13 18:45:56 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Apr 13 16:18:02 2014. How do you expect a driver to exercise due care when a pedestrian crosses in the middle of the street and misjudges the speed of the car thinking he can beat it across and then gets hit in spite of the driver's best attempt to stop or swerve?One way for a driver to exercise due care is to drive at a speed that allows a safe stopping distance. The yellow change interval is based on a braking rate of 10 fps/sec. As mentioned in another post, the reaction time is 1.0 sec. This means that the reaction time travel distance for traveling at 40 mph is 80% of the total reaction+braking distance than traveling at 20 mph. I once saw a pedestrian do just that and was most likely killed because of it. The pedestrian and the car both took the same evasive action. The pedestrian speeded up to out run the car and the driver swerved to avoid him so they both collided. If only one took evasive action, there would have been no accident. The pedestrian who was jaywalking was definitely wrong and unfortunately paid the price. Two pedestrian fatalities occurred within 5 blocks of my residence within the last two years. In both cases the pedestrian was proceeding across an intersection, within a crosswalk and with the traffic signal. One pedestrian was killed by a car making a left turn; the other pedestrian was killed by a car making a right turn. However, policy should not be driven by anecdotal evidence. As noted, NYCDOT analyzed all NYPD collision reports involving pedestrians from 2008 to 2012. Their conclusion was that drivers alone were responsible for 53% of the time; there was joint responsibility 17% of the time and the pedestrian was solely responsible 30% of the time. So let's make all good drivers suffer by adding countless minutes to their trips costing God knows how many dollars, so pedestrians can continue to be careless. I don't pretend to be God, however it's fairly easy to estimate the "inconvenience" to be borne by drivers. 80% of all unlinked vehicular trips are under 5 miles. The time difference between the current 30 mph and new 25 mph speed time per mile is 24 seconds. Therefore 80% of drivers will experience an increased travel time of less than 120 seconds due to solely to the reduced speed limit. That 5 miles is not uniform by borough. The 80% deciles are: 3.1, 3.8, 2.8, 4.7 and 5.1 miles for trips originating or ending in the Bronx, Brooklyn, Manhattan, Queens and Staten Island, respectively. While you are at it, whose property are the roads? If one divided unlinked trips that use streets between motor vehicles and non-motor users, the non-motor users account for 63% of all trips. It's pretty equal in terms of time spent on the streets; 51% motor vehicles and 49% non-motor vehicles. Why should all pedestrians, the majority street users, "suffer countless minutes to their trips" because of a few dangerous drivers. :=) Narrowing roads, more traffic lights, and slowing traffic are always the answer. DOT would never considering extending the time limit of amber lights to make it easier to stop or better signage, or merging lanes without any prior warning, or sudden left and right turn lanes that appear out of nowhere without prior warnings. There are other ways to increase safety besides making it impossible to travel anywhere. As I noted in another post, I'm in favor of all measures that will reduce vehicular speed. One radical solution that has been successfully used elsewhere is to remove all traffic signals. Motorists exercise due care, when crossing traffic can cause drivers real damage. Collisions with pedestrians are one sided. Having to pay a hefty insurance deductible is a proven incentive to make drivers more cautious. By your logic all roads should have a ten mph speed limit to cut the fatality rate further. Like most physical systems, there's a point of diminishing returns at both extremes. As noted elsewhere, a collision at 50 mph is fatal nearly 100% of the time. Therefore reducing a speed limit from 55 to 50 mph will have no effect. Similarly, a small percentage of pedestrians will be thrown violently to the pavement at low speeds. The point of diminishing returns on the low side is around 20 mph. Vision Zero is admirable but unattainable. Death is unavoidable. The promise of postponing death keeps those drug companies in business. |
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| (292221) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 13 18:52:10 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Apr 13 16:44:42 2014. Once upon a time, there was a thing known as "personal responsibility".There is practically no penalty for hitting or killing a pedestrian. A police officer must witness a traffic infraction in order to issue a ticket. Sidewalks no longer offer a safe haven. |
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| (292222) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Sun Apr 13 19:50:16 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 13 18:45:56 2014. Two pedestrian fatalities occurred within 5 blocks of my residence within the last two years. In both cases the pedestrian was proceeding across an intersection, within a crosswalk and with the traffic signal. One pedestrian was killed by a car making a left turn; the other pedestrian was killed by a car making a right turn.And I suppose those turning cars were screeching around the corner at 30+ MPH? |
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| (292223) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 13 20:25:43 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Apr 13 18:20:53 2014. It is a known fact that when speed limits are set too low for what a roadway was designed for, no one will obeyHow does that square with your theory that it's the pedestrians who disobey the law and not the drivers? Just go to Queens Blvd where it is perfectly safe to drive at 40 in the main roadway and the speed limit had been 35. It was lowered to 30, and everyone still drives between 35 and 40 when traffic permits, because that is what makes sense. I grew up in Rego Park and Forest Hills in the mid 1940's to early 1950's. I remember Queens Blvd before the area became built up. Elmhurst, Rego Park, Forest Hills and Kew Gardens were separate communities. There were barren fields between them. Road geometry is not the only determinant as to what a safe speed is. If you were a driver, you would never talk the way you do. I've owned a car continuously for 52 years. You want to impose your will on everyone even if 95% of the people disagree with you. As I noted in an earlier post, 63% of all unlinked street-centric trips are non-motorized. It's about time their needs were addressed. Excessive speed, and I said excessive speed not going a few miles over the speed limit, is only one cause As I noted going 40 mph means that you will travel 80% of the 20 mph stopping distance before your foot hits the brake. That's critical in heavily populated areas with pedestrian traffic. It should not be considered a cure all to lower speed limits all over to reduce crashes and that is exactly what you are doing. What lowering impact speed will do is greatly reduce crash severity. N.B. it's similar to what car makers have practised since Ralph Nader. Driver/passenger fatality rates (per mile travelled) are lower today. It's not because crashes have been reduced. It's because, seat belts, crumple zones, air bags, etc. have reduced the severity of crashes. Car exteriors could be designed to reduce the severity of vehicle/pedestrian crashes. Until they are, the most effective way to reduce pedestrian deaths is to reduce collision speed. We need a multi-pronged approach that does not paralyze the City. Traffic congestion in an area is caused by garbage in exceeding garbage out. Reducing vehicle speed throughout on all city streets won't increase congestion. It will only add a few minutes travel time for 80% of the unlinked trips. |
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| (292224) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 13 20:29:38 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by merrick1 on Sun Apr 13 16:25:13 2014. The design of Atlantic Avenue encourages jaywalking.Many blocks are 750 feet long. If you want to design a street for cars and pedestrians, pedestrian crossings need to be more frequent. There needs to be a standard maximum distance between pedestrian crossings. A Manhattan block is 262 feet long. That's a reasonable starting point to establish a standard. |
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| (292225) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 13 20:40:46 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by G1Ravage on Sun Apr 13 19:50:16 2014. You took my remarks out of context. I was replying to an implied assertion that a jaywalking pedestrian deserves to be run over.And I suppose those turning cars were screeching around the corner at 30+ MPH? Nobody witnessed the approaching vehicle in either case. The standard operating procedure for drivers is to speed up to an intersection and enter it before a light changes. Any slowing down to look for pedestrians is an afterthought after the turn is started. Most intersections and crosswalks are designed so that a person within that crosswalk is not visible to a vehicle approaching that intersection in a direction parallel to the crosswalk. |
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| (292226) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by sloth on Sun Apr 13 21:11:06 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Apr 13 18:20:53 2014. I drive a delivery route that spits me out at the end of the Interboro, or Conduit Ave, and requires me to cross all of Brooklyn westbound, sometimes on Eastern Pkwy, sometimes on Atlantic Ave.Atlantic Ave is already a bad stretch of road due to the red light cameras, heavy police presence, and shitty neighborhoods it passes thru. A speed limit of 25, if enforced, would add an unacceptable amount of time to my trip. So, Eastern Pkwy. If the same thing ends up happening there, I'll end up on the LIE to the BQE, driving many unnecessary extra miles. I agree that the speed limits are unnaturally low already-- 45 on the BQE being one ridiculous example, and 30 on major surface roads being another. Something like this will add time to every commercial trip made on Atlantic Ave. |
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| (292227) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Sun Apr 13 21:46:03 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 13 20:40:46 2014. I see the problem as inattentive drivers mixing with people who can't be bothered to turn their necks to look for an approaching car. |
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| (292229) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 13 23:36:52 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by sloth on Sun Apr 13 21:11:06 2014. I drive a delivery route that spits me out at the end of the Interboro, or Conduit Ave, and requires me to cross all of Brooklyn westbound, sometimes on Eastern Pkwy, sometimes on Atlantic Ave.1. Commercial traffic is prohibited on both the Interboro and Eastern Parkways. Take Empire Blv instead. Atlantic Ave is already a bad stretch of road due to the red light cameras, heavy police presence, and shitty neighborhoods it passes thru. The clear inference is that the red light cameras cause delays. Why is that? Would you or other drivers have stopped at red signals without the cameras? A speed limit of 25, if enforced, would add an unacceptable amount of time to my trip. The distance from the end of the Interboro to the end of Eastern Pkwy (Flatbush Ave) is 3.90 miles. The change in speed limit from 30 mph to 25 mph would require an additional 93.6 seconds of driving time. The distance along Atlantic Ave from Conduit to Flatbush is 5.34 miles. The decrease in speed limit increases driving time by 128 seconds. 45 on the BQE being one ridiculous example, and 30 on major surface roads being another. Pedestrian protection is the reason for lowering the speed limit. The proposals do not include limited access highways that prohibit pedestrians. There is a definite need for including arterial streets. They account for 16% of the street grid and 60% of pedestrian fatalities. If progress is to be made reducing pedestrian fatalities, that effort must start where pedestrian deaths occur. Something like this will add time to every commercial trip made on Atlantic Ave. What about the 10 pedestrians who were killed crossing Atlantic Avenue between 2008 and 2012? Many were on commercial trips to visit stores on Atlantic. |
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| (292230) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Apr 13 23:38:50 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 13 18:52:10 2014. "A police officer must witness a traffic infraction to issue a ticket."But he doesn't have to witness it for charges to be brought against the driver if there is evidence that the crash could have been prevented. |
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| (292231) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 13 23:42:52 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by G1Ravage on Sun Apr 13 21:46:03 2014. The law is very clear regarding a driver's obligation when turning on a green light. He must yield to any pedestrian legally within a marked or unmarked crosswalk. There's no legal obligation on the pedestrian to look before crossing, when he is facing a green light or walk signal. |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Apr 13 23:45:33 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 13 20:29:38 2014. There is something called restrictive roadways such as Queens Blvd where every street does not cross so that traffic moves faster. We have these roads where we can't or don't have highways. Atlantic Avenue is only restrictive for a small portion near Barclay's Center. If there were pedestrian crossings every 262 feet, traffic would be hopelessly clogged, but that is what you want.I can see one midblock crossing on 750 ft blocks where there is exceptionally high pedestrian traffic, but to make midblock crossings standard all over is just crazy. |
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| (292233) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 13 23:51:19 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Apr 13 23:38:50 2014. But he doesn't have to witness it for charges to be brought against the driver if there is evidence that the crash could have been prevented.The only time evidence will be collected is if the collision resulted in or is likely to result in death. Therefore, dangerous drivers will not be ticketed until they kill someone. |
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| (292234) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Apr 14 00:15:36 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 13 20:25:43 2014. I never said anything about drivers obeying laws. Everyone disobeys laws and I bet that also includes you."Road geometry is not the only determinant as to what safe speed is." So what exactly are you saying? "Owned" is the important word here. So now you don't drive anymore so you coudn't care less about he much you inconvenience drivers. "63% of all unlinked street-centric streets..." Let me understand you. Let's say in one minute, 100 cars with one passenger, and two buses with 50 passengers each or a total 200 people travel by motorized vehicle on 42 Street between 7th and 8th Avenue, but 2,000 pedestrians are using that block, that means that means that 90 percent of the street width should be a sidewalk? "As I noted going 40 mph..." That's exactly why we need longer amber cycles. The current 3 seconds for 30 mph assumes you immediately hit the brake, and you also have to slam down hard to stop before the crosswalk. "What lowering impact speed will do.,." That's exactly what they said about he 55 mph speed limit that no one listened to, not even the cops, and it was a big failure. Many have been raised back to 60 and 65 outside of NYC. Traffic congestion is caused by bottlenecks that cause merging like double parking and utility work and construction blocking lanes. Reducing speeds will add 20 to 30 minutes to long trips, not 3 minutes. Case in point. For over 40 years, DOT made you merge from two lanes into one going south from the FDR to the Brooklyn Bridge. There were 10 minute delays much of the time. It would have been worse but many drivers used two lanes anyway by driving over the zebra stripes. Then the DOT installed bollards forcing drivers to comply. That increased the delay to 20 minutes. Last year they made it legal to use two lanes, and guess what? With the same number of cars, there is now only a 5 minute delay. That's a 15-minute congestion delay gone overnight. I have no idea what you are saying that congestion is caused by "garbage in exceeding garbage out." Sounds like you are saying that no one has a right to drive. That would explain why you want to make life for drivers as difficult as possible. |
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| (292241) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Apr 14 03:53:16 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 13 16:55:16 2014. My own interest is reducing vehicular speed at all timesWhy? So fuel consumption can go up and more car engines can suffer heat damage? |
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| (292244) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by sloth on Mon Apr 14 07:45:28 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 13 23:36:52 2014. 1. I have regular plates on the vehicle. Most commercial trips have even fewer options.2. 128 seconds? Are you shitting me? I'm assuming this change won't be accompanied by a change in the timing of the traffic lights... at least not in favor of drivers... and over 5 miles of Atlantic Ave, that is going to add several minutes of sitting at red lights. Since I get paid by mileage, this will cost time (money) and fuel (money). Eventually the costs get passed on to the customer. 3. 10 pedestrian deaths in 5 years doesn't sound like all that many. Two people a year? This is seriously being done for 2 people a year? |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by merrick1 on Mon Apr 14 09:09:00 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Apr 13 23:45:33 2014. From East New York all the way to Jamaica, Atlantic Avenue has traffic lights, cross streets and cross walks every other block at the most. |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 14 09:26:28 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by sloth on Mon Apr 14 07:45:28 2014. The news articles have mentioned adjusting the signal timing. |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Apr 14 10:15:00 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 13 20:25:43 2014. How does that square with your theory that it's the pedestrians who disobey the law and not the drivers?Regardless of who is breaking the law, a dead pedestrian is still a dead pedestrian. Many studies have demonstrated that simply posting a lower speed limit does nothing to reduce speeds or crash rates. Physical improvements have to be done to actually reduce speeds and improve safety. |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Apr 14 10:25:36 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Apr 13 23:45:33 2014. There is something called restrictive roadways such as Queens Blvd where every street does not cross so that traffic moves faster. We have these roads where we can't or don't have highways. Atlantic Avenue is only restrictive for a small portion near Barclay's Center.Between Grand Avenue and Broadway Junction, the typical block length along Atlantic Avenue is 750 feet. East of Broadway Junction, blocks are back to ±250 feet, but many don't go through. Between Schenck Avenue and Fountain Avenue, marked crosswalks across Atlantic Avenue are up to 880 feet apart. |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Apr 14 10:33:24 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 13 23:42:52 2014. There may not be a legal obligation, but any pedestrian who blindly crosses the street without looking around is just plain dumb. You never know when a driver may not be paying attention. I have had many pedestrians who have refused to cross the street although they have the right of way, until they first make eye contact with me as a driver just to be sure that I see them and they know I will stop. |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Apr 14 10:37:41 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 13 23:51:19 2014. That does not make it right. I agree with you that most collisions are not properly investigated simply because the police are lazy and do as little work as possible.I once had a friend who was shot and would have died if the bullet was a quarter inch away. When he recovered he made a trip to the precinct and asked if there was any progress in the case to apprehend the shooter. He received an honest answer."We do not have enough officers to investigate every time there is a fatality, so do you think we will spend anytime on a case when a person lives?" |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Apr 14 10:40:35 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Apr 14 10:25:36 2014. That's how it should be. Where the Belt Parkway is elevated, you can only go under it usually only every quarter mile. Should we build pedestrian underpasses? |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Apr 14 10:43:46 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Apr 14 10:15:00 2014. The question still is if reduced speeds is the answer. A reduced speed won't make drivers give pedestrians the right of way, but better signage and clearer crosswalks will have an effect. And longer amber signals will make it easier to stop on time. |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Apr 14 10:46:16 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Apr 14 03:53:16 2014. Yes, he must have stock in gasoline companies or own a car repair shop. LOL. |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Apr 14 11:05:09 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Apr 14 10:33:24 2014. There may not be a legal obligation, but any pedestrian who blindly crosses the street without looking around is just plain dumb. You never know when a driver may not be paying attention.The same is true when driving through a green light. You never know when someone is going to run the red and hit you. |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Apr 14 11:59:10 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Apr 14 10:40:35 2014. That's how it should be.It should be that on a surface street with intersections every 250 feet, that someone who gets off a bus at an intermediate intersection has to walk 880 feet to cross the street? Establishing crosswalks artificially far apart does the same thing as setting speed limits artificially low - it increases the number of violations and does nothing to improve safety. Where the Belt Parkway is elevated, you can only go under it usually only every quarter mile. Should we build pedestrian underpasses? If there's significant pedestrian demand from one side to the other, then yes. The truth is the Belt Parkway was built to increase the speed of cars at the expense of non-motorized users. As a result, it created a barrier to pedestrians and encouraged auto-centric land use around it, so the pedestrian demand went away. That's poor planning in an urban environment where less than half the population has a car. Why would we want to duplicate that on Atlantic Avenue? |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Apr 14 12:24:24 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Apr 14 11:59:10 2014. You are correct. If there is a bus stop, there should be a crosswalk. |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph |
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Posted by 3-9 on Mon Apr 14 15:01:44 2014, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue speed limit lower to 25 mph, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Apr 14 10:33:24 2014. Just a note as a lifelong pedestrian dealing with car drivers: due to lighting, tinted windows, etc., it's very hard to make eye contact with drivers, or even seeing if they're waving from behind the windshield. What I wait for is the car slowing down or stopping. If they stop or maintain a very slow speed for a second or two, then I think they're allowing me to cross. |
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