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| (260898) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by mac5689 on Wed May 23 07:24:37 2012, in response to Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed May 23 06:40:42 2012. I kinda don't get why Selden, Wading River, Rocky Point, or Miller Place aren't on the Port Jefferson Route. Its easier and faster to get from the Port Jefferson Area to Selden then it is then to get from Miller Place to Selden. I believe the only way to get to Selden from Miller Place (without having to go through Port Jefferson Station/Terryville) is by going though Middle Island.Also I wouldn't want to be riding a coach bus up the hill from Port Jefferson to Port Jefferson Station, I don't even like riding a transit bus up that hill as it is. |
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| (260910) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by RailBus63 on Wed May 23 09:10:24 2012, in response to Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed May 23 06:40:42 2012. What data are you using to determine how much demand exists for these routes?How would trip times compare to a commuter in that town parking at the nearest LIRR station and riding the train to Penn Station? Some of your routes look rather lengthy - will commuters from wealthy towns be OK with the bus taking a detour off the highway for the stop at Queens College? How many buses would be required and where would they be garaged? Given the length of your routes and the probable times of peak deamnd, I suspect many of your buses will be making one-way trips (reverse commuters going from the city to the island will likely be traveling at the same hours that islanders will be trying to get into the city). This could result in a significant amount of deadhead mileage required. You could situate the depot somewhere in Queens or eastern Nassau county to help facilitate the movement of buses and drivers out of the city after the a.m. rush and back in time for the p.m. rush but that would obviously mean some long pull-out and pull-in runs at the beginning and end of the day. It's fun to think about a system like this but the logistical challenges are enormous, and that's without even getting into fares and subsidies. In most cities where express buses and commuter rail compete, either the bus route came first or it is well established. Experience in New Jersey and Boston have shown that the majority of commuters will prefer the train to the bus when both modes are convenient. |
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| (260925) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed May 23 14:40:15 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by mac5689 on Wed May 23 07:24:37 2012. That hill really isn't all that bad. And from Miller Place to Selden, you can take Patchogue-Mt Sinai Rd which is practically a highway. Going from Port Jeff to Selden backtracks east. I'm looking more at Coram/Selden border than the Selden/Centereach border. Another option simply could be to combine the X347 and the X495 into one route running 25A from Wading River to Miller Place, and the head down to Coram and run Rt25 out to Smith Haven Mall, and then head down to the LIE (or continue down 25 through Commack and then take 231 down to the LIE). You'd lose out on Port Jefferson, Terryville, Farmingville, and Holbrook though. |
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| (260926) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by Bounad Hanhic on Wed May 23 14:55:23 2012, in response to Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed May 23 06:40:42 2012. Express Bus service from Long Island is a very good idea. If a route like the BxM4C can exist so can an Express Bus from Nassau County. However, to start I would not run routes as NIMBYkiller has proposed. I would first start with service to and from Western Nassau with a route from the Port Washington/Manhasset area to Manhattan since the Port Washington branch is single track and there probably will not be a second track added east of Great Neck. I would also add routes from Roslyn/Roslyn Heighs/Searingtown as well as from New Hyde Park and North New Hyde Park. Currently, there are riders from Western Nassau County (especially from these areas) who drive to the QM1, QM5, QM6, QM7, QM8, QM20, X68. But mostly to the QM7, QM8, and I would even say the X68. |
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| (260927) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed May 23 15:02:02 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by RailBus63 on Wed May 23 09:10:24 2012. That's the thing though, the train isn't convenient from a lot of these places (not from Long Island standards). I wonder what the data is on how many people are driving into Manhattan from all these different areas. I know they have studies showing from the 5 boros, anything from Long Island? Remember, this is just a first draft. It's got way more fat than I actually would want, but I threw it all out there to see what ideas you guys thought were good and bad. Obviously certain lines would skip certain stops that could be served by other lines. Maybe only one run from each line stops at Queens College? Maybe only the X495 serves the LIE park and rides? There's plenty of room to fine tune it all. As for the reverse commuters, who are they? Is it mostly shift workers? If so is it your typically 7am start, 3pm finish? Or are the work hours different? If you have someone that needs to be in at 7am, you could easily have that bus turn in some situations and do the last run back to the city and still get in before 9am. Example could be a bus runs out from Manhattan or just from Queens to Hempstead, Hofstra, NUMC, SUNY Fdale, and Melville. It could then turn and do either a run from Melville Park and Ride or from Republic Airport back to the city. In the evening, if they're getting off at 3PM it's perfect timing to get into the city for 6PM runs back out to the island.Also as far as deadheading, perhaps these buses could be integrated with other services running during the day out of the city. I believe that's what Great Escape does. A driver will do an AM commuter run, and then go to Boston and back. Another bus will do a Boston and back, and then do the PM commuter run out to the island. I've seen them leave the buses at Christopher Morley overnight. Or they'll do some other combination of commuter + charter, or commuter + casino. For this project though, a good place for a yard would probably be Hauppauge |
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| (260931) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by RailBus63 on Wed May 23 15:21:11 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by Bounad Hanhic on Wed May 23 14:55:23 2012. Express Bus service from Long Island is a very good idea. If a route like the BxM4C can exist so can an Express Bus from Nassau County.The BxM4C is barely existing - Westchester would probably end it tomorrow if they weren't afraid of the public outcry. |
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| (260933) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by Bounad Hanhic on Wed May 23 15:31:55 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by RailBus63 on Wed May 23 15:21:11 2012. But it still carries its core riders and was started as a result of poor Conrail service. |
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| (260937) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed May 23 16:13:28 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by Bounad Hanhic on Wed May 23 14:55:23 2012. No offense, but Port Washington/Manhasset is a terrible idea. Despite the single track, the rr still runs a ton of service and the train takes only 35 minutes. Driving from Port usually takes an hour and a half in rush hour. Western Nassau is pretty well covered by the LIRR with good service. Only Searingtown is a good area, and maybe Franklin Square and Elmont just because the N6 is so popular |
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| (260938) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by Bounad Hanhic on Wed May 23 16:15:14 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed May 23 16:13:28 2012. But the people who ride the N6 are not the ones who would use an Express Bus and with the Port Washington Branch you can only cover Penn Station in Manhattan. |
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| (260939) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Wed May 23 16:27:06 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by Bounad Hanhic on Wed May 23 16:15:14 2012. But 35 minutes to Penn + 10-12 minutes on Subway to Wall Street is still less or equivalent to what an Express Bus would be in normal conditionsN6 would be a poor idea because it does not run through areas where the population would pay express bus rates for the service If you are running anything from Western Nassau I could see one going Oyster Bay/Searingtown/NYC and another from Garden City to NYC and another West Hempstead/Garden City/NYC. Garden City to Penn is roughly 45 minutes and many trains go into Flatbush so you have to transfer at Jamaica and if you had a way of preventing it from backing up on the LIE could have the demand for the link to Wall Street |
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| (260940) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed May 23 16:36:24 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by Bounad Hanhic on Wed May 23 16:15:14 2012. Even to Wall St it'd be useless. That's still an hour and a half vs an hour. I just threw in the stops at Hempstead, West Hempstead, Franklin Square, Elmont, and Queens Village because the bus coming from Levittown is already passing those areas. Franklin Squaring though really is about the last area where I could see folks paying the fare that would be necessary |
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| (260941) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by Bounad Hanhic on Wed May 23 16:39:14 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by mtk52983 on Wed May 23 16:27:06 2012. You run the buses on Union Turnpike/Queens Blvd/LIE (like the QM1,QM5,QM6,QM7,QM8) to Manhattan and via Northern Blvd/Whitestone Expy/Willets Point Blvd/Clearview Expy/Northern Blvd to Nassau. I do not want Express Buses near the N6 for the reason that you described. West Hempstead/Garden City is a little too out of reach. But I would concentrate on Port Washington/Manhasset as well as Oyster Bay Branch. |
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| (260943) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by Bounad Hanhic on Wed May 23 16:50:28 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by Bounad Hanhic on Wed May 23 16:39:14 2012. Also before adding a Port Washington/Manhasset Express Bus I would add service to the QM3 first. |
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| (260944) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed May 23 17:19:45 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by Bounad Hanhic on Wed May 23 16:39:14 2012. But you already have an express bus running Union Tpke. All that's missing is extending it into the quad so you can run reverse commute trips as well. And why would anyone from Searingtown ride a bus that's making stops on Union Tpke when they've already got one that goes non-stop? |
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| (260945) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed May 23 17:20:16 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by Bounad Hanhic on Wed May 23 16:39:14 2012. But you already have an express bus running Union Tpke. All that's missing is extending it into the quad so you can run reverse commute trips as well. And why would anyone from Searingtown ride a bus that's making stops on Union Tpke when they've already got one that goes non-stop?And again, any bus competing with the PW branch doesn't even have a snowballs chance in hell. Forget it |
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| (260946) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by Bounad Hanhic on Wed May 23 17:27:06 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed May 23 17:19:45 2012. No stops on Union Turnpike. |
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| (260947) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by Bounad Hanhic on Wed May 23 17:28:39 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed May 23 17:20:16 2012. You have the QM3 trips that compete with the Queens end of the PW branch and each of the three trips in each direction carry to the point where I would consider adding a little service. As I said I would add service on the QM3 before sending a bus to compete with the Nassau end of the PW branch. |
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| (260948) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed May 23 17:28:51 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by Bounad Hanhic on Wed May 23 17:27:06 2012. So then what's the point? Yeah the LIE sucks but Union Tpke really isn't much quicker, and neither is Northern Blvd. |
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| (260949) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by Bounad Hanhic on Wed May 23 17:29:43 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed May 23 17:28:51 2012. Union Turnpike makes much better time. Even JAzumah pointed that back a while ago on this board. |
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| (260957) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed May 23 17:54:47 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by Bounad Hanhic on Wed May 23 17:28:39 2012. Either way, I'm here to talk about buses from further out east than just western Nassau |
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| (260963) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by Brooklyn67 on Wed May 23 18:25:29 2012, in response to Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed May 23 06:40:42 2012. You can't use North Country Road eastbound after the bypass, your route must be changed to use the 25A Bypass, then a left on Broadway, right on North Country, if necessary. Otherwise, the bus should run along 25A. |
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| (260964) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed May 23 18:32:51 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by Brooklyn67 on Wed May 23 18:25:29 2012. No commercial vehicles allowed? Either way, that's an easy fix. |
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| (260966) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by Brooklyn67 on Wed May 23 18:42:56 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed May 23 18:32:51 2012. No, it's not that. There was a realignment of the roadway (years ago) that no longer permits any traffic to travel along North Country Road eastbound. All eastbound traffic diverts to 25A. See map here. |
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| (260969) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed May 23 19:12:59 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by Brooklyn67 on Wed May 23 18:42:56 2012. Yeah that area I know about (stumbled upon it late last night), you originally said Broadway near Rocky Point. What you meant is the area in Shoreham |
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| (260971) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by Brooklyn67 on Wed May 23 19:17:36 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed May 23 19:12:59 2012. Yep, that was my mistake, sorry about that. Had the bypass on the brain ;)Anyway, easily resolved by simply following the directional arrows on the road (North Country into 25a). |
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| (260973) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by Bounad Hanhic on Wed May 23 19:34:59 2012, in response to Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed May 23 06:40:42 2012. Or you know what a better idea would be, Express Bus service from Jamaica station or from some other major point to 3rd Avenue, 6th Avenue, or Wall Street. |
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| (260976) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed May 23 19:39:22 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by Bounad Hanhic on Wed May 23 19:34:59 2012. Again, this is about express buses from Long Island. Queens stuff is for another thread |
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| (260982) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by Bounad Hanhic on Wed May 23 21:07:57 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by Bounad Hanhic on Wed May 23 19:34:59 2012. or from some other point such as Mineola or Valley Stream. |
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| (260987) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by mac5689 on Wed May 23 21:43:43 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed May 23 14:40:15 2012. Have you ever stopped on that hill on a bus, I've been on plenty and each time The bus would start to roll backwards after the driver released the break and hits the gas.CR-83, which is the road I believe you are referring to is a highway in the sense that its about a 3 lane roadway in both directions. The Coram/Selden Border is CR-83 and Middle Country Road, the Selden/Centereach Border is in the area of Nichol1's (CR97) and Middle Country Road. I have no Idea what you mean by going from Selden to Port Jeff you back track east. You take Boyle Road to Old Town Road and then Old Town to either 347 or either Terryville Road or Jayne Boulevard. Terryville however has two routes that run to the Mall already, the S60 and 6B, kinda don't see a point of needing a Express bus that they could take to the mall. Same with Port Jefferson Station, they have the S62 and S60 that go to the mall. |
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| (260991) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed May 23 22:52:10 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by mac5689 on Wed May 23 21:43:43 2012. This isn't to provide local service to the mall. The purpose of stopping at the mall is to use it as a park and ride for people commuting to the city |
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| (260996) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by TheGreatOne2k9 on Wed May 23 23:26:51 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed May 23 19:39:22 2012. You mean *suburban* Long Island since Queens is a part of Long Island |
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| (260997) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Wed May 23 23:35:15 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed May 23 17:54:47 2012. But can they compete realistically with the LIRR in electrified territory? To me, they can only work in the diesel territory, and not along the PJ. |
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| (260998) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu May 24 00:38:27 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by mac5689 on Wed May 23 21:43:43 2012. This isn't to provide local service to the mall. The purpose of stopping at the mall is to use it as a park and ride for people commuting to the city |
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| (260999) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by JAzumah on Thu May 24 01:02:17 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by RailBus63 on Wed May 23 15:21:11 2012. The BxM4C is no longer subsidized. It operates out of the farebox and is fully Liberty's responsibility. |
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| (261000) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by JAzumah on Thu May 24 01:05:18 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by Bounad Hanhic on Wed May 23 17:29:43 2012. My mentor used to run a West Hempstead-NYC service and he says Union Turnpike was the fastest way in and out. |
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| (261001) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by JAzumah on Thu May 24 01:09:05 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by Bounad Hanhic on Wed May 23 17:28:39 2012. The QM3 is not going to increase in service because of the LIRR. |
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| (261002) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by B49 Limited on Thu May 24 01:16:29 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by JAzumah on Thu May 24 01:09:05 2012. Agree, the QM 3 should have been eliminated with the x 51 in the budget cuts.. I would used that money spent on the QM 3 and create a lower Manhattan QM 2 route.... |
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| (261003) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by Bounad Hanhic on Thu May 24 02:21:44 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by B49 Limited on Thu May 24 01:16:29 2012. each of the 3 trips get full and there is some potential but not much. |
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| (261006) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by Bounad Hanhic on Thu May 24 07:03:03 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by Bounad Hanhic on Thu May 24 02:21:44 2012. The biggest potential of the QM3 is that the LIRR stations such as Auburndale and Murray Hill have no parking available. As far as I know and have heard, Broadway and Bayside gets their parking lots filled up early in the morning (as in 5:30 or 6 AM) as they got to the parking spots first forcing people to look for on street parking. Little Neck and Douglaston have private parking and again, from what I have heard, those stations too get their parking spaces taken early in the morning. Which also was part of the reason why the QM3 was created. |
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| (261017) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu May 24 11:05:20 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by AMoreira81 on Wed May 23 23:35:15 2012. To midtown its tough. Looks like only the line from wading river can actually match the RR to midtown. But for wall st, they all win. |
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| (261018) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu May 24 11:09:42 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by Bounad Hanhic on Thu May 24 07:03:03 2012. Northern Blvd isn't much of a walk to the RR. It's ridiculously that our tax money is being used to subsidized an express bus line (which apparently all hemorrhage money) when the RR is right there |
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| (261019) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu May 24 11:14:11 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by JAzumah on Thu May 24 01:05:18 2012. How'd that service do? I remember it also served elmont and valley stream. Why didn't he go after a safer bet like NY 24 east of hempstead or the LIE park and rides? |
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| (261020) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by Bounad Hanhic on Thu May 24 11:26:04 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu May 24 11:09:42 2012. But the LIRR only goes to Penn Station and East Side Access has been delayed yet again to 2019 and I am sure that it will be delayed to 2025 or whenever. |
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| (261022) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by B49 Limited on Thu May 24 12:28:16 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by Bounad Hanhic on Thu May 24 02:21:44 2012. Its 3 trips are full in the AM not PM (usually 1 - 3 ppl), Northern Blvd however makes the route slow just to get to the expressway, which is makes it a negative.I ve witness Broadway station parking lots being full in the early morning, however with nearby Q 13 and Q 28 service to the station and the other station is walking distance to the Northern Blvd buses Q 12 and Q 13. I just feel that bus should be a part of the QM 2 family or eliminated. |
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| (261024) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by B49 Limited on Thu May 24 12:31:43 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by Bounad Hanhic on Thu May 24 07:03:03 2012. The funny part is LIRR is way more expensive than an express bus. This is a route if people support would be a perfect example of where an express bus can save you money compare to a Peak direction LIRR train. |
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| (261025) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by Bounad Hanhic on Thu May 24 12:32:52 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by B49 Limited on Thu May 24 12:28:16 2012. However, in addition to the LIRR ticket, you also have to pay for your bus/subway fare as well. The Q12, Q13, and Q28 are very heavy bus routes. In the PM rush you still get a decent crowd on the QM3, you might have just stumbled upon the line on a bad day or bad days. Either way, the LIRR only goes to Penn Station and you have to transfer to get to and from anywhere else that you are going to. |
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| (261044) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by merrick1 on Thu May 24 21:45:43 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed May 23 15:02:02 2012. Why Queens College? I don't know if rush hour only service would work for a college. Most students have irregular schedules. They get to school in time for their first class which might any time in the morning or even in the afternoon. They might go home after their last class or they might stay to study or hang out and go home whenever.On the other hand if a significant number of students did get off at Queens College you would be running partly empty bus the rest of the way to Manhattan. You could get an idea of the student market for express bus service by looking at St. John's. There are lots of express buses on Union Turnpike. Do St. John's students use them? |
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| (261052) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by JAzumah on Fri May 25 00:37:39 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu May 24 11:14:11 2012. He would have never gotten it. His service served areas that were away from the railroad or near the West Hempstead line. The state would have never given him authority to run NY 24. |
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| (261064) | |
Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri May 25 11:10:06 2012, in response to Re: Ideas for express bus from Long Island, posted by JAzumah on Fri May 25 00:37:39 2012. NY24 between Nassau Coliseum and Plainedge is about as far as you can get from LIRR in Nassau County. |
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