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| Manhattan's 34th Street BRT way, updated plans... traffic, ugh (188922) | |
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| (188922) | |
Manhattan's 34th Street BRT way, updated plans... traffic, ugh |
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Posted by Gold_12th on Sun Mar 7 22:33:39 2010 Full report: click here, 20MB, 94 pages PDFBrief summary: The 34th Street Transitway project will construct a new high quality right-of-way for crosstown bus service along 34th Street. This facility would include a physically separate right-of-way for buses on 34th Street, as well as passenger boarding islands, a prepayment fare system, and other bus operations improvements. The 34th Street Transitway will feature a signature Select Bus Service route between the Javits Convention Center (West 34th Street between 11th and 12th Avenues) and the E. 34th Street ferry landing, along 34th Street. In addition, the Transitway will be used by existing and expanded express bus routes from Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island, and New Jersey, buses connecting to the Pier 79/West 39th Street ferry terminal, and other local buses. The project will also create a significant new pedestrian plaza in the middle of Manhattan and other pedestrian mobility, safety, and comfort enhancements along the corridor. Overall, these changes will significantly speed bus service along 34th Street by an estimated 35%, and will benefit the overall quality of life along the corridor. The Transitway would be constructed with a two lane, bi-directional bus lane aligned against one curb of the street. The remainder of the street would be used for one-way traffic, running outbound from midtown: westbound from Sixth Avenue, and eastbound from Fifth Avenue. Between Fifth and Sixth Avenues, the only buses would be allowed as through traffic, with the remainder of the space used for new pedestrian spaces. Loading and parking activity would be available along at least one side of each block at all times.    This set of improvements was identified through the 34th Street Transit Corridor Alternatives Analysis study. The purpose and need for the study was to find ways to improve crosstown transit service, improve express commuter bus service, reduce pedestrian congestion, and accommodate future growth along the corridor. The study determined that the Bus Rapid Transit alternative (the Transitway project) was the only alternative that would address all of these needs. Next Steps: As part of the environmental review for the project, DOT will be conducing an in-depth evaluation of the effects of these changes. * Scoping for project environmental review, including public input * Study of changes needed to truck route network * Public input on design needs for corridor Source: http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/ferrybus/34thstreet.shtml You can feedback to NYCDOT by going to that source link |
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Re: Manhattan's 34th Street BRT way, updated plans... traffic, ugh |
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Posted by Bee Flexible #823 on Sun Mar 7 23:40:48 2010, in response to Manhattan's 34th Street BRT way, updated plans... traffic, ugh, posted by Gold_12th on Sun Mar 7 22:33:39 2010. 34 Street 1 way?! Aww HELL NO! I think they are better off leaving it the way it is except they need to make sure the Bus Lane they have now is for BUSES ONLY! |
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Re: Manhattan's 34th Street BRT way, updated plans... traffic, ugh |
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Posted by mac5689 on Sun Mar 7 23:51:35 2010, in response to Manhattan's 34th Street BRT way, updated plans... traffic, ugh, posted by Gold_12th on Sun Mar 7 22:33:39 2010. why do i feel like this is to good to be true, where is the shoe thats about to drop? |
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| (188938) | |
Re: Manhattan's 34th Street BRT way, updated plans... traffic, ugh |
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Posted by JAzumah on Mon Mar 8 00:02:07 2010, in response to Manhattan's 34th Street BRT way, updated plans... traffic, ugh, posted by Gold_12th on Sun Mar 7 22:33:39 2010. Doesn't NYCDOT know that buses need to pass each other during rush hours?I have a MUCH better idea. Make 34 Street completely a transitway from Dyer Avenue to 3 Avenue during rush hours. Leave the street in its current configuration. Allow trucks on it to drop off goods in special loading areas. Create a tour bus curb on one side between 7 Avenue and 8 Avenue and 5 Avenue and 6 Avenue. All they will need is some paint, signs, and traffic agents that know how to direct traffic. |
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Re: Manhattan's 34th Street BRT way, updated plans... traffic, ugh |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Mon Mar 8 00:09:36 2010, in response to Re: Manhattan's 34th Street BRT way, updated plans... traffic, ugh, posted by Bee Flexible #823 on Sun Mar 7 23:40:48 2010. Agreed. |
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| (188947) | |
Re: Manhattan's 34th Street BRT way, updated plans... traffic, ugh |
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Posted by WillD on Mon Mar 8 01:15:36 2010, in response to Manhattan's 34th Street BRT way, updated plans... traffic, ugh, posted by Gold_12th on Sun Mar 7 22:33:39 2010. Goddamn that screams for a streetcar. Fine, they'd have to find an acre or two to put a Portland Streetcar-like operations base somewhere in Hell's Kitchen, but it'd reduce the cost per passenger mile by a quarter. If I may be so bold there's a bus depot over there that could probably use an extra floor.But the alternative analysis is confused at best. Their statement that "streetcar service along 34th Street failed the primary screening because the mode is inconsistent with current MTA operating procedures," is not a valid reason to reject a mode. Saying "we don't do that because we don't do that" is a tautology, not a determining criteria. Before 1904 NYC did not use subways because they had no subways, but when money is properly invested good things happen. I am simply baffled that they found the streetcar alternative had "no improvement to pedestrian circulation areas, and severe restriction of deliveries to local businesses due to its curbside operation.", yet somehow the BRT mode, where the transitway placement should not be significantly different, did not. Either the streetcar alternative was not subjected to the same design iterations as the BRT alternative, or they're handicapping the streetcar. I am highly suspicious of the fact that no capital cost is given for the streetcar mode. I'd be willing to bet the low end estimate was on the order of 150 million dollars and thus low enough to provide a viable alternative to the BRT mode, especially in light of the lower operational cost. I particularly like the misstatement about the shared use of the ROW between LRT/Streetcar and buses. I realize worldwide best practices may not be their strongest suit, but they have a photo of Pittsburgh's BRT system (10 million dollars more per mile than they quote as an upper limit to the capital cost), which shares ROW and tunnels with LRTs. If you're going to include a photo of a given system in a report you should be familiar with that system and the impact its operation could have on the findings. And how is it that Manhattan can have all sorts of cantilevered signs, lights, and everything else hanging over traffic, but the world is going to end if a wire goes over lanes cars will never travel along? Even if we accept the premise that wires will never be used in Manhattan the alternatives are not more expensive or unproven. The APS system in Bordeaux added no more than a half million dollars per mile to the system. The PRIMOVE inductive power transfer system Bombardier is developing should have costs no higher than a conventional catenary system, and will be even lower maintenance than the existing catenary and ground level power supply systems. |
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Re: Manhattan's 34th Street BRT way, updated plans... traffic, ugh |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Mon Mar 8 06:50:44 2010, in response to Re: Manhattan's 34th Street BRT way, updated plans... traffic, ugh, posted by WillD on Mon Mar 8 01:15:36 2010. IAWTP. Or there's good old-fashioned conduit power. But realistically, the cheapest solution is to change the regulations.But I do like the street layout. They should use a similar design to return the avenue bus routes to two-way operation. |
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| (188969) | |
Re: Manhattan's 34th Street BRT way, updated plans... traffic, ugh |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Mar 8 10:43:11 2010, in response to Re: Manhattan's 34th Street BRT way, updated plans... traffic, ugh, posted by WillD on Mon Mar 8 01:15:36 2010. Streetcars require much more of an infrastructure investment, and the streetcars would be tied ONLY to 34th street (at this point). If they were looking to do this simultaneously on 14th, 23rd, and 42nd, streetcars might make sense; but the bus option is quickest, easiest, and cheapest.I do agree, however, that the busway operation vs a rail ROW in the same space makes no difference in the disruption to local deliveries. |
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Re: Manhattan's 34th Street BRT way, updated plans... traffic, ugh |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Mar 8 11:48:18 2010, in response to Re: Manhattan's 34th Street BRT way, updated plans... traffic, ugh, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Mar 8 10:43:11 2010. Streetcars require much more of an infrastructure investment, and the streetcars would be tied ONLY to 34th street (at this point). If they were looking to do this simultaneously on 14th, 23rd, and 42nd, streetcars might make sense; but the bus option is quickest, easiest, and cheapest.It looks carefully planned as an inital phase of a future streetcar line. My opinion has always been that 34th Street was better suited for crosstown light rail than 42nd Street, so I hope this busway comes to pass. |
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Re: Manhattan's 34th Street BRT way, updated plans... traffic, ugh |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Mon Mar 8 11:56:31 2010, in response to Re: Manhattan's 34th Street BRT way, updated plans... traffic, ugh, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Mar 8 10:43:11 2010. I do agree, however, that the busway operation vs a rail ROW in the same space makes no difference in the disruption to local deliveries.Actually, it might make a difference. A streetcar probably wouldn't need 11' between track centers. Assuming that it would be 10'6" (as it is in Boston), then that's an extra foot to give to one of the normal lanes for delivery trucks to double park in. |
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Re: Manhattan's 34th Street BRT way, updated plans... traffic, ugh |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Mar 8 19:47:04 2010, in response to Re: Manhattan's 34th Street BRT way, updated plans... traffic, ugh, posted by WillD on Mon Mar 8 01:15:36 2010. Send your comemnts to them!! |
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Re: Manhattan's 34th Street BRT way, updated plans... traffic, ugh |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue Mar 9 20:48:00 2010, in response to Re: Manhattan's 34th Street BRT way, updated plans... traffic, ugh, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Mar 8 11:48:18 2010. I also feel like 34th needs a crosstown light rail more so than 42nd |
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| (189128) | |
Re: Manhattan's 34th Street BRT way, updated plans... traffic, ugh |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue Mar 9 20:49:11 2010, in response to Manhattan's 34th Street BRT way, updated plans... traffic, ugh, posted by Gold_12th on Sun Mar 7 22:33:39 2010. It's ridiculous that they'd do this for BRT, but somehow light rail is not an option. Light rail and buses share the same ROW all over the world and even in our own country, why can't this be done here? Also, 34th St...one way? OUCH! |
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Re: Manhattan's 34th Street BRT way, updated plans... traffic, ugh |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Tue Mar 9 23:30:59 2010, in response to Re: Manhattan's 34th Street BRT way, updated plans... traffic, ugh, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Mar 8 10:43:11 2010. IAWTP. If there were other streets with LRT, then yes, by all means have lrt for 34th. But otherwise why buy trains that's dedicated for only one street? A bus with dedicated lanes would do the same job and can be used on other bus lines. |
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Re: Manhattan's 34th Street BRT way, updated plans... traffic, ugh |
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Posted by Marc A. Rivlin on Thu Mar 11 22:11:50 2010, in response to Re: Manhattan's 34th Street BRT way, updated plans... traffic, ugh, posted by JAzumah on Mon Mar 8 00:02:07 2010. Can't they pass using the oncoming bus lane, the way you can pass on a two-lane road when there is a broken yellow line in the middle?I like the transitway idea. You'd leave the current curb bus lane for midday hours? I just am dubious of any bus lanes that just operates in rush hour. 57th Street, for example, is poorly enforced during rush hours and can become a parking lot when trucks start making deliveries and pick-ups after 10 AM. |
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Re: Manhattan's 34th Street BRT way, updated plans... traffic, ugh |
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Posted by JAzumah on Thu Mar 11 22:21:14 2010, in response to Re: Manhattan's 34th Street BRT way, updated plans... traffic, ugh, posted by Marc A. Rivlin on Thu Mar 11 22:11:50 2010. The transitway on Fulton Street isn't set up like that and it is busy enough that such a window rarely opens unless a truck is deliverling goods. A broken yellow line may be useful in this circumstance, but I would rather that the platforms be staggered or ditched in order to provide passing opportunities. |
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