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| Re: Utica Avenue subway (1569213) | |
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| (1569291) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Feb 23 13:08:32 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway, posted by #4 SeaBeachFred on Tue Feb 23 12:56:36 2021. Pardon me for perhaps acting like an ignoramus but living in California and only a semi-annual visitor to New York, I had always thought the Utica Ave subway was the #4 train that terminated at Utica Avenue. Will you and someone please enlighten if we are talking about another Utica Avenue train Talk about a blast from the past our old friend Sea Beach Fred is back. There was a proposal to run a subway south along Utica Avenue. Provisions for this line were provided for in the tunnel east (or south) of the current Utica Avenue IRT station. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1569294) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Tue Feb 23 13:47:33 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Feb 22 19:42:01 2021. If ridership doesn’t rebound to pre-Covid levels it makes little sense to build a Utica subway. |
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| (1569296) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Feb 23 14:02:20 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway, posted by #4 SeaBeachFred on Tue Feb 23 12:56:36 2021. They don't consider the #4 as the Utica Ave. Subway because Utica is simply one of the stations as it runs along Eastern Pky. when the line crosses Utica.Keep in mind the for #4, Utica is a part time terminal because it terminates at New Lots Ave. when the #3 is not running in Brooklyn. |
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| (1569298) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Feb 23 14:03:36 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Feb 23 07:07:38 2021. Indeed, we just don't know what urban life will be like either near or far term. What % of office driven commuting will return? |
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| (1569299) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Tue Feb 23 14:06:22 2021, in response to Utica Avenue subway, posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 22 19:12:12 2021. It won't be built. As a matter of fact after this pandemic is over I don't believe there will be any extensions or new start systems because I really don't see ridership going back to pre pandemic levels. |
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| (1569303) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 23 14:29:28 2021, in response to Utica Avenue subway, posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 22 19:12:12 2021. In Under The Sidewalks Of New York, Brian Cudahy tells the story, perhaps apocryphal, of a young newlywed couple who were looking to buy a house in Crown Heights in 1950. The agent told them that the upcoming transit bond issues would allow the subway to be extended along Utica Ave., making the husband's commute to Manhattan an easy one. The couple, Cudahy wrote, moved in, grew up, and retired to Florida. The subway had yet to be built.I think the grandchildren of today's Millennials might see the Utica Ave extension and the continuation of SAS by the time they are ready to retire to Florida. |
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| (1569304) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Feb 23 14:44:37 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway, posted by #4 SeaBeachFred on Tue Feb 23 12:56:36 2021. Fred, nice to see you here again! The original IRT subway plans, under the Dual contracts of 1913, made provision for a Utica Line. The present Utica/Eastern Pkwy station ends some 60 feet west of Utica, itself.The second proposal was under the IND Second System. From South 4th St, a 4 track subway was to have run to Stuyvesant Ave, cut diagonally across Fulton St, and continue south on Utica. When first aired in the early 1930's, the local residents were dead set against the elevated portion, south of Kings Hwy. Due to opposition and the Depression, the project was shelved until 1952, after the post-War bond issued had been approved. Again, the locals insisted on a very expensive waterproof tunnel, between Kings hwy and Ave U. So, here we are, some 70 years later, discussing yet another Utica route! |
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| (1569305) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Feb 23 14:50:32 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 23 14:29:28 2021. My opinion, take it or leave it, is that an IRT or IND Utica subway with waterproofed tunnels, south of Kings Hwy, will never be built. |
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| (1569307) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Feb 23 14:58:35 2021, in response to Utica Avenue subway, posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 22 19:12:12 2021. Assume it will be built.1.What locations would you have for stations ? Of course Utica and Fulton ( in complex transfer A and C trains) and Utica and Eastern Parkway ( in complex transfer 3 and 4 trains) are a "must" as is Utica and Church Avenue . 2.Whhat Line(s) would run on Utica and what letter would you use? |
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| (1569308) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 23 15:01:46 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Feb 23 14:58:35 2021. It would be an extension of the 4. |
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| (1569309) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway / SAS Phase 2+ |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Feb 23 15:07:00 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway / SAS Phase 2+, posted by Ancient Mariner on Mon Feb 22 22:13:25 2021. My "Wally's Wprld" LaGuardia plan would have continued the IND line north under Steinway St from Broadway, with stations at 30th Ave and 23rd/24th Aves. Then east, under Ditmars Blvd to LGA, with an intermediate stop at Hazen St. |
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| (1569310) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by Mark S. Feinman on Tue Feb 23 15:08:45 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway, posted by #4 SeaBeachFred on Tue Feb 23 12:56:36 2021. Hi Fred ...Refresh your memory at these links. If the IND Second System Was Built The Utica Ave Subway The Nostrand Ave Line --Mark |
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| (1569311) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway / SAS Phase 2+ |
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Posted by Dan on Tue Feb 23 15:11:05 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway / SAS Phase 2+, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Feb 23 10:09:24 2021. Those suburban folks heading to LGA (or JFK) will either take an Uber/Lyft or have friends drive them to the airport. Especially if they are a family or have a lot of luggage. Only a schmuck would make his family take mass transit to the airport. |
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| (1569313) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Feb 23 15:14:31 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 23 15:01:46 2021. Going by Perer Dougherty's map book, I believe it would have continued onto Utica, via the #2 or #3 west side lines. |
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| (1569314) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Feb 23 15:18:13 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Feb 23 08:12:15 2021. That sounds like good idea but keep in mind that along with a storage yard, a maintenance barn will also have to be constructed to handle inspections and routine maintenance. |
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| (1569316) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Feb 23 15:29:37 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway, posted by Joe V on Tue Feb 23 07:12:45 2021. Since the upper portion of the SAS has not yet been constructed, plans can change. during my lifetime, several plans for subway extensions have been modified over the years. |
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| (1569318) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway / SAS Phase 2+ |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Feb 23 15:39:00 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway / SAS Phase 2+, posted by Elkeeper on Tue Feb 23 15:07:00 2021. Then what would you do about lcl service along the existing Qns Blvd Line? |
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| (1569319) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Feb 23 15:42:33 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Feb 23 08:01:36 2021. That would be a distinct possibility. On the other hand, a modern structure similar to the one used for the Kennedy Air Train might not raise too many hackles especially on lower Utica Av which is a very wide street. Also Utica Ave S/O Kings Hwy is mostly commercial so not to many NIMBYs to contend with. |
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| (1569320) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Feb 23 15:45:11 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Feb 23 07:59:11 2021. That brings with it the possibility of an 8 tk terminal sort of a smaller version of Stillwell at which trains of both lines could interchange if necessary. |
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| (1569321) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Feb 23 15:53:12 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Feb 23 08:19:39 2021. The way the provisions for the Utica subway were constructed, it would be the #3 that would via Utica and the #4 to N/lots. As another poster mentioned, you couldn’t really have any infrastructure tru south of Emmons since that is where Sheepshead Bay actually is. What would probably have to be done is to swing the subway east around either Voorhies or Shore Rd to get to Kings Plz. The mini yard could actually be built there so that trains from the Utica subway should also make used of it. |
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| (1569323) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Feb 23 15:56:25 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 23 14:29:28 2021. As a former resident of Marine Pk I had heard stories about many homes that were sold in the area on the promise of the extensions of both the Utica and Nostrand lines being extended into the area. |
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| (1569324) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Feb 23 15:58:45 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Feb 23 13:47:33 2021. It doesn’t make any sense regardless of covid |
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| (1569325) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Feb 23 15:58:49 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Feb 23 14:58:35 2021. If a Utica subway were ever to be built, it would only be S/O E/Pky as a branch of the IRT, so it wouldn’t even be anywhere Fulton. |
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| (1569327) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by Q4 on Tue Feb 23 16:01:44 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway, posted by Elkeeper on Tue Feb 23 14:44:37 2021. They should have a least built it up to the portion where it was proposed to go onto an elevated structure with provisions for a future extension either continuing underground or ramping up to an elevated structure. |
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| (1569328) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by Q4 on Tue Feb 23 16:05:40 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway, posted by randyo on Tue Feb 23 15:29:37 2021. IIRC, the current plans include tail tracks that were to continue north towards the Bronx for a short distance while the main tracks curve towards 125tht Street. This would not preclude a future extension into the Bronx in a future generation (or two or three). |
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| (1569329) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway / SAS Phase 2+ |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Feb 23 16:06:35 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway / SAS Phase 2+, posted by Dan on Tue Feb 23 15:11:05 2021. Hahaha |
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| (1569331) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Feb 23 16:13:45 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Feb 23 14:03:36 2021. The big push nowadays is the discretionary weekend & holiday travel business. As for Metro-North, NJT & LIRR. Pre pandemic "off hour" numbers were promising. If the work from home option continues to work out for many instead of few, weekend travel might be the Railroads new bread and butter. Just get over the pandemic, open up the City & take it from there. The subways should also get a bump in numbers on the weekends. |
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| (1569334) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway / SAS Phase 2+ |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Tue Feb 23 16:30:45 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway / SAS Phase 2+, posted by Joe V on Tue Feb 23 07:14:32 2021. If it's that or nothing, I think they'll use it. |
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| (1569337) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Feb 23 16:39:25 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway, posted by randyo on Tue Feb 23 15:53:12 2021. Lion: Run the Nostrand Avenue line south on Nostrand to Emmons Avenue, with another branch running to Flatbush to the Kings Maul. The Utica Line would run from the Empire line all the way to Flatbush and thence to Kings Maul.He didn't make clear whether the Nostrand branch to KP would branch off right after the Flatbush Av station or further south The LIRR Bay Ridge branch is only a couple of blocks away, so you'd have to allow for that |
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| (1569338) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Feb 23 16:41:43 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway, posted by Q4 on Tue Feb 23 16:01:44 2021. Agreed! I also thought about a 2 track viaduct on a right-of-way between Utica Ave & E 51st St. A portal would have been south of the subway portion at Kings Hwy. |
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| (1569339) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway / SAS Phase 2+ |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Feb 23 16:42:28 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway / SAS Phase 2+, posted by Dan on Tue Feb 23 15:11:05 2021. I guess theres a lot of schmucks out there. Have you seen the crowds (pre pandemic) on the Airtrain? If there were better/more direct mass transit options available, the real schmucks out there would be the ones using the over crowded, construction jammed area's roads. Toss in the highway robbery tolls and the gas pump prices going thru the roof nowadays for "good" measure. |
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| (1569341) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway / SAS Phase 2+ |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Feb 23 16:46:10 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway / SAS Phase 2+, posted by randyo on Tue Feb 23 15:39:00 2021. Modify the tracks, so one would be above the other. That way, Queens locals could turn off onto Broadway, at the intersection of Steinway St. |
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| (1569343) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway / SAS Phase 2+ |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Tue Feb 23 16:47:30 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway / SAS Phase 2+, posted by Dan on Tue Feb 23 15:11:05 2021. Unless it's clean, quick and convenient. Which this could be. The Q should turn west as planned, with a different line running east from the connection with Metro-North (and the Lex). Put luggage racks on the train cars running the Harlem-125th to LGA route. And make sure the cars are kept clean. |
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| (1569346) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by Express Rider on Tue Feb 23 17:13:53 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway, posted by Elkeeper on Tue Feb 23 12:51:21 2021. And is the "SS South Fourth Street" still in drydock or will it part of Utica - the original Stuyvesant-Uitca route? |
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| (1569349) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 23 18:24:56 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway, posted by randyo on Tue Feb 23 15:56:25 2021. Reportedly, a Utica extension all the way to Floyd Bennett Field was explored, but I don't think a route that far south ever made it past the proposal stage. It would be interesting to see if any surveys or drawings of such an alignment were ever made. Had this been built, it would have made Floyd Bennett a viable commercial airport, perhaps as an adjunct to (then) Idlewild, or as an executive airport like Teterboro. |
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| (1569353) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by #4 SeaBeachFred on Tue Feb 23 18:54:39 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Feb 23 13:08:32 2021. Hello RedbirdR33. Yes, I'm still around and usually am posting on the off-topic thread. Man, that place is a mad house and you can easily get sucked into the political haymakers booming out on that board. For a political animal like me I easily get sucked into it.Thanks for the info on the Utica Ave proposal |
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| (1569354) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by #4 SeaBeachFred on Tue Feb 23 18:57:13 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Feb 23 14:02:20 2021. Thanks Bill. Good to get up to date on something like that. I was under the impression years ago that the #4 train only ran to New Lots Avenue late at night. I have some catching up to do. |
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| (1569355) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by #4 SeaBeachFred on Tue Feb 23 18:59:16 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway, posted by Elkeeper on Tue Feb 23 14:44:37 2021. Sounds like a ready made controversy for the politicos to get their teeth into. Seems to can't separate politics from anything, can you? |
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| (1569356) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by #4 SeaBeachFred on Tue Feb 23 19:02:26 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway, posted by Mark S. Feinman on Tue Feb 23 15:08:45 2021. Thanks Mark---and good to see you still are a contributing member to Subchat. I remember all those pictures you took 20 years ago and look forward to you posting some of them on this board when appropriate. Good to hear from you and thanks for the info. I'll download them so as to start catching up. |
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| (1569359) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Feb 23 19:15:09 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway, posted by #4 SeaBeachFred on Tue Feb 23 18:54:39 2021. Ehi Fred, bentornato amico mio.Bill Newkirk |
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| (1569360) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by jailhousedoc on Tue Feb 23 21:05:04 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway, posted by randyo on Tue Feb 23 01:25:29 2021. Unfortunately a new building was erected just north of East Tremont Ave. where the old NYW & B railroad bridge was, and south of that location is a new MTA Bus garage and maintenance depot. The opportunity was there, but people with other ideas got to the property first and there you have it. Take a look at the area for yourself and see what was built, then come up with a working solution for the problem, |
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| (1569365) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway / SAS Phase 2+ |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Feb 23 22:19:12 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway / SAS Phase 2+, posted by Dyre Dan on Tue Feb 23 16:47:30 2021. Might be easier to run the SAS from 116th St, jog to the right under Randalls Island, and run to LGA via Ditmars Blvd. |
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| (1569366) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by Express Rider on Tue Feb 23 22:25:15 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Feb 23 16:13:45 2021. When the pandemic statistics diminish, at some point unknown in the future; with the onset of an effective vaccine, which would very gradually make social distancing less mandatory (ultimate goal being or very minimally mandatory or not at all) there will be a slow and steady return of individuals to the workplace; hopefully rising to near or very close to pre-pandemic levels - we're still talking many months to a year or more probably.Hopefully, this is not in the wishful thinking department. The obvious issue - everyone wanting and aching to return to pre-pandemic socializing - the anxiety felt by everyone today being elminiated by an effective vaccine. re-reading this, it looks like off-topic chat, (no I haven't checked for pandemic subject posts over there at all), however it looks like the pandemic and its implications and issued is still being discussed over here. |
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| (1569368) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by Express Rider on Tue Feb 23 22:35:12 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway, posted by #4 SeaBeachFred on Tue Feb 23 18:54:39 2021. Hello SeaBeach Fred!Good to see you around! - Express Rider |
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| (1569369) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Tue Feb 23 22:38:53 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway, posted by #4 SeaBeachFred on Tue Feb 23 18:57:13 2021. Come back to NYC while it's still in one piece. LOL. |
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| (1569370) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by Express Rider on Tue Feb 23 22:41:27 2021, in response to Utica Avenue subway, posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 22 19:12:12 2021. I cannot access the article, my computer's server is taking longer than the Creatcious period to bring it up. (sigh!)Info about the article is appreciated. Are they finally taking steps not just with re-examining the route (again!), but actually trying to find or planning to realistically find financing for this line? Thanks to all in advance. |
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| (1569371) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway |
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Posted by Express Rider on Tue Feb 23 22:42:42 2021, in response to Utica Avenue subway, posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 22 19:12:12 2021. PS - was just reading about the Utica Ave. line at Van Schnookenraggen's site a little while ago. |
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Re: Utica Avenue subway / SAS Phase 2+ |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Feb 23 23:00:31 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway / SAS Phase 2+, posted by Elkeeper on Tue Feb 23 22:19:12 2021. Must stop on rikers island |
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Re: Utica Avenue subway / SAS Phase 2+ |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue Feb 23 23:02:53 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway / SAS Phase 2+, posted by Joe V on Tue Feb 23 11:09:15 2021. Oh please, it's fine. It's unpleasant (still loud and filled with junkies) but it's just as safe as transferring anywhere else in the city. If you can survive Port Authority or Penn Station, you can survive East Harlem just fine. |
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| (1569375) | |
Re: Utica Avenue subway / SAS Phase 2+ |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Feb 23 23:13:07 2021, in response to Re: Utica Avenue subway / SAS Phase 2+, posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue Feb 23 23:02:53 2021. Interesting how he hasn’t responded |
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