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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Jul 17 14:14:11 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by Joe V on Mon Jul 16 16:42:07 2012.

They were in 9700 series...I didn't note the exact number though. Thank you.

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Jul 17 14:15:06 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jul 16 12:34:22 2012.

Thanks!!

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by mci guy on Tue Jul 17 14:21:15 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by Widecab5 on Sun Jul 15 11:06:42 2012.

well good riddance to a shitty subway car. hated them from the day they arrived on the D. they never operated on the qb by the way. i rode qb everyday in the 70s.

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(G00GLE)

Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44


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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Jul 17 14:23:08 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by Mitch45 on Mon Jul 16 07:28:42 2012.

I loved them as a kid, too. In their later years, they've been my least favorite car class. The loss of the blue stripe did a lot of damge to the image I've had of them. Call that silly if you like, but that's my feeling...

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by randyo on Tue Jul 17 15:06:23 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by William A. Padron on Tue Jul 17 09:46:33 2012.

If you count the portions of the C Line below 145 St that effectively duplicate the A Line, the R-10s would probably have spent more than 3/4 of their service life on the 8 Av/Fulton St Line.

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by randyo on Tue Jul 17 15:10:33 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by 5119 on Tue Jul 17 07:44:47 2012.

I had often wondered about that since I never had the opportunity to ride the BSS prior to the present Kawasaki fleet. Another "rapid transit" company that eventually went to inside door controls was the H & M which originally had outside door controls on the old black cars but had the door controls moved inside sometime before I started riding it in the late 1950s.

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by randyo on Tue Jul 17 15:15:05 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Jul 17 14:23:08 2012.

If it were not for the graffiti problem, the blue stripes would probably not have been removed. In fact, the R-32s through 40s probably would have ultimately received blue stripes as well. I have seen artists' renderings of R-62s and 68s which shows both car classes with blue stripes as well. Since it was easier to remove graffiti from plain unpainted stainless steel, the MTA made the decision to eliminate any sort of color from all NYCT equipment.

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by randyo on Tue Jul 17 15:17:36 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by mci guy on Tue Jul 17 14:21:15 2012.

I believe the QB being referred to was (Q)ueens (B)oulevard which means the E and F and not the Bway/Brighton Lcl. After the N was routed to Qns Blvd in 1967, a few R-44s showed up on the N from time to time.

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by Westcode44 on Tue Jul 17 16:37:18 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by BLE-NIMX on Tue Jul 17 10:17:05 2012.

NO there was also a 4 car set of R44s (stars cars) tested on E3 track (seabeach) outfitted with A/C propulsion. Probably late 1980's early 1990's-before the R38s were outfitted with them which proved successful. Train Dude where are you?

WE-44

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by William A. Padron on Tue Jul 17 16:40:20 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by randyo on Tue Jul 17 15:06:23 2012.

Yes, I can along with that idea in essence. So, basically, you can say that the R-10's were mostly identified with and spent the most time being on the 8th Avenue/Fulton Street routes in their four decades on the road...and as IND cars too.

-William A. Padron
["Independent Subway System"]


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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by Joe V on Tue Jul 17 17:06:14 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by William A. Padron on Tue Jul 17 16:40:20 2012.

They had them on the GG for a time in the late 1970's. They seemed like a fish out of water, like driving an old Mercedes to the Goodwill Store.

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by Dj Hammers on Tue Jul 17 17:28:14 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by Westcode44 on Tue Jul 17 16:37:18 2012.

I wonder if anyone has a sound or video clip of the R38's and/or R44s outfitted with AC propulsion.

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Tue Jul 17 18:00:49 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by R30A on Tue Jul 17 12:05:36 2012.

While the R44, R46, and M1-M6 all appear to have the same interior pattern, they do not!

R44/R46 have NYS and NYC alternating.
M1/M3 have NYS only
M2/M4/M6 have NYS and CT alternating.


Talk about your hidden Mickeys.

Larry, RedbirdR33

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by randyo on Tue Jul 17 18:12:05 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by William A. Padron on Tue Jul 17 16:40:20 2012.

Correct. Now I know you like the R-10s the way they were, but i have often felt that it's too bad that the B of T didn't wait a year or 2 before ordering the R-10s since it's likely that they along with their smaller IRT brothers the R-12s and 14s would have been closer in appearance to the R-15s along with the associated R-15 like amenities like interior C/R door controls and axiflow fans. The R-15 design with its porthole windows would certainly not have detracted from the overall operational performance of the cars and the R-15 design along with the corresponding stainless steel design of the R-11 which was slightly similar is my personal favorite. I have also felt that the maroon, beige and gray racing stripe scheme of the R-15s was second only to the turquoise and cream racing stripe scheme of the R-36s and which was later used on the R-10s.

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by Edwards! on Tue Jul 17 18:23:26 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by randyo on Tue Jul 17 18:12:05 2012.

YUCK...

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by randyo on Tue Jul 17 18:27:13 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by Edwards! on Tue Jul 17 18:23:26 2012.

Why?

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Tue Jul 17 18:28:26 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by Dj Hammers on Tue Jul 17 17:28:14 2012.

I don't know whether this was one of them or not, but I remember 4052-4053 (R38) sounding like a jet plane going through Cranberry tube.

wayne


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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by Joe V on Tue Jul 17 18:35:21 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by Edwards! on Tue Jul 17 18:23:26 2012.

Better than the dull, shit-colored/green/brown everything else was.

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by Edwards! on Tue Jul 17 19:03:35 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by Joe V on Tue Jul 17 18:35:21 2012.

LOL! not exactly how I would have said it..but very close..

Dont get me wrong,guys..i dug the R33/36WF COLORS...but didnt like the R15 design.

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by Edwards! on Tue Jul 17 19:07:06 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by randyo on Tue Jul 17 18:27:13 2012.

Didnt like the R15 car design..especially the porthole doors.
That it wasnt repeated AFTER was a very wise choice.

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by Edwards! on Tue Jul 17 19:37:24 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by randyo on Tue Jul 17 15:17:36 2012.


we know thats a typo,brah..its all good.

1976..not 67...though,the RR should have stayed there..with the N/QB going to Queens..EXCEPT the QB would use the tunnel to Brooklyn.

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by R32_3672 on Tue Jul 17 19:38:28 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by Edwards! on Tue Jul 17 19:07:06 2012.

being born in 1990 having Stared riding the Subway The A&C with the R44s and R32s and R38s i always loved the R32s and R38s more than these old lemons. but my personal favorite back then to see out the front was the R40S to QueensBridge.

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by 5119 on Tue Jul 17 20:22:58 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by William A. Padron on Tue Jul 17 09:46:33 2012.

Also, one of the "few" who will always view the A train synomous with the R-10s. Remember my first ride on them in 1955, when my family changed from the D train at 145th Street and took the A to where ever we went back then. Hearing them coming in on the upper level was an unforgettable experience.

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by William A. Padron on Wed Jul 18 07:12:24 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by Joe V on Tue Jul 17 17:06:14 2012.

Yeah, the R-10's were there on the "GG" from the fall of 1977 to around spring 1985. I recall one of my first trips of them on that route in their first year there, and a passenger boarded at Woodhaven Boulevard commenting to say, "Hey, what's the 'A' train doing here?"

-William A. Padron
["Queens-Forest Hills"]


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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Jul 18 07:15:17 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by randyo on Tue Jul 17 15:15:05 2012.

Yeah, well, they sure did a good job of drabbing things down, for sure!

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Jul 18 07:20:03 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by randyo on Mon Jul 16 17:58:31 2012.

Another generation, Randy :) To a fellow born in '91, it's understandable he'd see the R44 as the real A Train. Time waits for no one, unfortunately.

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by Widecab5 on Wed Jul 18 07:21:58 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by Widecab5 on Sun Jul 15 11:06:42 2012.

I wanted to thank all for making such generous responses to this thread over the past several days.

As I read through them it is VERY reminiscent of the sorts of things one might hear (or even desire to) at the wake of a departed friend.

Rather appropriate!!

The checking goes on and all that remains necessary is discovery of the "how many" to date and "which ones," but give a hand to "Caz" away back there on Sunday for breaking the case with his sighting at "Scraparano."

The cars basically leave 207 Street as a unit, all on flatbed cradles, four at a time. They are escorted front and back by chase vehicles with yellow bubble gums and festooned with "Oversize Vehicle" banners.

The funeral processions head south on Broadway to West 181st Street, make a right, and then a left onto Fort Washington Avenue. They then make a right turn at 179th Street and take the ramp onto the GWB.

I have not yet discovered their exact destination point in New Jersey (the cemetery?), but it is at a storage facility used by Naparano Iron & Metals.

If Caz is still out there and would like to elaborate so some can pay their final respects, feel free!

Some would say that part of Jersey would appreciate the flowers!

To make the farewell complete, a preferred charitable cause is also needed in memoriam of the R-44. Any ideas?

Regards,

George Chiasson Jr.
(Widecab5@aol.com)

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Jul 18 07:27:56 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by randyo on Tue Jul 17 18:12:05 2012.

I HATE those porthole door windows. I'm glad that the Bot/NYCTA/MTA didn't stick with that.

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Jul 18 07:29:47 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by Edwards! on Tue Jul 17 19:03:35 2012.

I agree.

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Jul 18 07:30:36 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by MainR3664 on Wed Jul 18 07:29:47 2012.

I'd like to add that I've seen pics of the R33/36 WF cars as delivered. Wow- those were sharp looking.

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by Mark S. Feinman on Wed Jul 18 14:33:42 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by Widecab5 on Wed Jul 18 07:21:58 2012.

a preferred charitable cause is also needed in memoriam of the R-44. Any ideas?

Friends of the St. Louis Car Company :)

--mark

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by HANDBRAKE on Wed Jul 18 15:18:16 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by Mark S. Feinman on Wed Jul 18 14:33:42 2012.

Two R44 units are being considered for transfer to the NYTM. I can't recall the car numbers. My first view of a R44 was in Amsterdam, NY in November or December 1971.

I spotted a passing PC freight traveling south along the Mohawk River that included two R44's situated at the end of the train in front of the caboose with a large sign in one of the windows announcing somthing to the effect "New Subway Cars for NYC."
Unfortunately no camera was avalable.

As for the demise of the R44's, no loss, since that was the beginning of the end of storm door views of the RoW.

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by randyo on Wed Jul 18 15:19:33 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by Edwards! on Tue Jul 17 19:07:06 2012.

Actually, it's the porthole doors that I find most attractive about the R-15 as well as the R-11 design. Even if porthole doors were not used, the roof design of the R-15 which became standard on future NYCTS car orders along with inside door controls and axiflow fans would have been a definite improvement over the turtle back roofs, caps and triggers and upside down desk top fans of the R-10s through 14s.

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by randyo on Wed Jul 18 15:22:09 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by MainR3664 on Wed Jul 18 07:30:36 2012.

They certainly were and I was disappointed that the R-36 paint scheme as applied to the R10s was not extended to the rest of the fleet.

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by randyo on Wed Jul 18 15:24:03 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by MainR3664 on Wed Jul 18 07:27:56 2012.

As I mentioned in my other post, the porthole doors that both the R-15s and R-11s had were one of my favorite features of that particular car design.

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by randyo on Wed Jul 18 15:29:28 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by Edwards! on Tue Jul 17 19:37:24 2012.

You're right the year was a typo. The reason that the N and R swapped was due to the R Line's lack of a convenient maintenance facility at either end of the line. I worked as the T/D at 95 St a few times and it was a real pain getting cars to/from CIY for inspections and repairs. Layups and put ins to/from CIY required a revers move on the mainline 4 Av exp tracks at 36 St and during AM layup periods that impacted in the West End and Sea Beach express services.

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by Edwards! on Wed Jul 18 15:49:20 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by randyo on Wed Jul 18 15:29:28 2012.

it was a silly move by the TA in 67 to reroute the RR to Ditmars in the first place...
N/QB service would have been the better option.
The EE was a waste of time..

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by randyo on Wed Jul 18 16:11:52 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by Edwards! on Wed Jul 18 15:49:20 2012.

Actually, the original route of the 4 Av lcl was from 95 St to Astoria ( Qnsbro Plz till 1949) from the inception of the route. Brighton lcls terminated at 57/7 till 1956 when they were extended to CTL from about 6A to 8P M - F with later PM midnight and weekend service still terminating at 57/7. Circa 1960, the north terminals were swapped and Brighton lcls went to Astoria 24/7 and 4 Av lcls went to Ctl during the same hours formerly operated by the Brighton lcls and to 57/7 at other times. With both Brighton local and express services being removed from Bway in 1967, Astoria needed a full time Bway service and that role at the time fell to the 4 Av (RR) lcl. A part time Qns Blvd Bway service was still needed however, and that role was filled by the EE until 1976 when the EE was eliminated and a polyglot of various N service replaced it. It probably would have been better to continue the RR service to Ctl after Chrystie and send the Ns to Astoria but for whatever reason, the pre MTA NYCTA service planners back then chose not to probably because the demographics at the time required 2 local services on Bway M - F and that was seen as the best way to accomplish it at the time.

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by Joe V on Wed Jul 18 17:25:21 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by Mark S. Feinman on Wed Jul 18 14:33:42 2012.

Ironic that car put them out of business.

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by Dyre Dan on Wed Jul 18 18:15:13 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by Edwards! on Tue Jul 17 19:37:24 2012.

QB by definition used the bridge, if it used the tunnel it would be the QT.

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44(Preservation?)

Posted by ENY Blitz 5107 on Wed Jul 18 18:43:20 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by Widecab5 on Sun Jul 15 11:06:42 2012.

RE:Possible Preservation of a R-44 pair; I suggest #'s 100 and 159(their "As Built" Numbers) for preservation,as these two cars were mated together "Pre G.O.H." #100 is the "First in the Series" and 159 would be the "B" unit...Just an idea,if they havent been scrapped already...

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44(Preservation?)

Posted by Dj Hammers on Wed Jul 18 19:31:52 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44(Preservation?), posted by ENY Blitz 5107 on Wed Jul 18 18:43:20 2012.

Would it be possible to operate an A-B set of just two cars though?

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44(Preservation?)

Posted by Joe V on Wed Jul 18 19:38:43 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44(Preservation?), posted by Dj Hammers on Wed Jul 18 19:31:52 2012.

Wait until later in the decade and get an SI car

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44(Preservation?)

Posted by randyo on Wed Jul 18 19:50:12 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44(Preservation?), posted by Joe V on Wed Jul 18 19:38:43 2012.

They wouldn't be compatible. NYCT R-44s have Westcode brakes, SIR R-44s have WABCO brakes and the 2 types have different brake pipe pressures.

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44(Preservation?)

Posted by Ian Lennon on Wed Jul 18 21:06:31 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44(Preservation?), posted by randyo on Wed Jul 18 19:50:12 2012.

How hard would it be to mate two SIR R44's to two R46's?

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44(Preservation?)

Posted by Train Dude on Wed Jul 18 21:23:17 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44(Preservation?), posted by Ian Lennon on Wed Jul 18 21:06:31 2012.

Mechanically, it would be a simple matter of a trunion bolt through a link bar. Making them work together? Well, that's another story

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44(Preservation?)

Posted by Westcode44 on Wed Jul 18 21:33:01 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44(Preservation?), posted by randyo on Wed Jul 18 19:50:12 2012.

R44s & R46s were never compatiable from day 1.

WE-44

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44(Preservation?)

Posted by Ian Lennon on Wed Jul 18 21:36:52 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44(Preservation?), posted by Train Dude on Wed Jul 18 21:23:17 2012.

I was under the impression that the R44SI, and the R46 share more in common than the R44 mainlines.

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44(Preservation?)

Posted by Train Dude on Wed Jul 18 22:03:08 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44(Preservation?), posted by Ian Lennon on Wed Jul 18 21:36:52 2012.

They did at inception. The last 12 R-44s that ultimately went to Staten Island had more in common with R-46s than they did with R-44s. HOWEVER, the cars have been overhauled and the R-46 of today and the R-44 SI of today bear little mechanical resemblance to their former selves.

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Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44

Posted by mr mabstoa on Wed Jul 18 22:08:32 2012, in response to Re: (Belated) Requiem for the R-44, posted by Widecab5 on Sun Jul 15 11:06:42 2012.

Last week I saw 536 going across the GW on a flatbed.

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