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| Tuscarora Almanac for October 3 (1488427) | |
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| (1488427) | |
Tuscarora Almanac for October 3 |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Oct 3 13:50:29 2018 Tuscarora Almanac - October 3, 1955 - The Book of First Runs Brooklyn, New York New York City Transit Authority BMT Division This is the first day of operation of Staten Island Railway motor cars (Class ME-1) on the BMT. It ran as a #5 Culver-Nassau Street Local and consisted of cars 2904, 2921, 2922. (original nos: 329, 350, 345) Source: ERA Headlights / November, 1955 Tuscarora Almanac - October 3 - 4, 1969 - The Book of Last Runs Brooklyn, New York New York City Transit Authority BMT Division This is the last night of operation of BRT Q-Types wooden elevated cars. It was also the last night of operation for the Myrtle Avenue El south of Broadway. The last train ran as an “MJ” Myrtle Avenue Local (BMT Rt. 11) and left Metropolitan Avenue at 11:38 PM, October 3. It left from Bridge-Jays Streets at 12:13 AM, October 4 and arrived back at Metropolitan Avenue at 12:43 AM. The consist was (S) 1619ABC,1616CBA. It was followed by an empty backup train with cars (S) 1613CBA,1610CBA. During the last rush hour these trains and two others were in operation. The consists of the other two trains was 1602CBA,1611CBA and 1620CBA,1629ABC. There were two post abandonment fan-trips, one on October 4 for the Electric Railroaders Association and another on October 5 for the Trolley Museum of New York. The consists on both trips was 1629ABC,1616CBA. Source: New York Division Bulletin / October, 1969 Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3 |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Oct 3 18:35:46 2018, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for October 3, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Oct 3 13:50:29 2018. Leaving Metropolitan Ave toward Bridge St and other points is railroad NORTH, railroad NORTH, railroad NORTH, and now that the M runs to Continental it still is!!!! |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3 |
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Posted by Bklynsubwaybob on Wed Oct 3 18:41:01 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3, posted by randyo on Wed Oct 3 18:35:46 2018. Hi Randy,Please extend my best wishes to Bruce. Thanks. Bob |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1488480) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Oct 3 21:45:05 2018, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for October 3, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Oct 3 13:50:29 2018. Which of the last runs was Big Ed the motorman? Revenue or farewell? |
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| (1488553) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3 |
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Posted by zac on Thu Oct 4 11:35:05 2018, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for October 3, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Oct 3 13:50:29 2018. At least I got to ride the Q-types once, even if only on the upper part. I never did ride the lower part, nor the 3rd Ave El in The Bronx. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3 |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Oct 4 13:41:28 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3, posted by Bklynsubwaybob on Wed Oct 3 18:41:01 2018. I haven’t seen Brice in a long time. I believe he moved to Florida. |
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| (1488622) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Oct 4 18:47:00 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3, posted by zac on Thu Oct 4 11:35:05 2018. That's better than me. I never rode on them back then, although I do remember seeing them once as our Curly Joe train stopped at Myrtle Ave.-Broadway. I thought the BMT standards looked old and decrepid, but the Qs looked as though they were holdovers from the Civil War. |
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| (1488647) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3 |
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Posted by Express Rider on Thu Oct 4 21:00:01 2018, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for October 3, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Oct 3 13:50:29 2018. The October 4th trip was where I've posted about my brother and I going to Myrtle/Jay that morning, finding it shut, and trotting/ running our butts up to Myrtle/Broadway, where we caught the Q's; and on the way, seeing the turnouts underneath the structure, for the 5th ave. el, and the Park ave./ Lexington ave. els. Does anybody have any photos of these turnouts? |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Oct 5 07:01:31 2018, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for October 3, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Oct 3 13:50:29 2018. We say this every year, but it bears repeating- loss of the Myrtle Ave Line was a major blow - the service was necessary, and I'm sure it would be popular today. A really dumb move.As I understand it from some articles I've found since last year, there actually was opposition to the closure, and even a push to re-open the line during the interval between the closure and the start of demolition. Alas, these protests and effort were ineffective. |
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| (1488668) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3 |
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Posted by Bklynsubwaybob on Fri Oct 5 07:58:25 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3, posted by randyo on Thu Oct 4 13:41:28 2018. Thank you. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 5 12:59:08 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Oct 5 07:01:31 2018. I hear you.The line should have been preserved..and connected to one of the downtown subways. To me,it seems as if the MTA went out of their way to shrink the scope of regional responsibility. |
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| (1488698) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3 |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Oct 5 14:20:02 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Oct 5 07:01:31 2018. You didn't have the degree of community activists as you have today. That is what saved the Franklin Shuttle but doomed the Myrtle and the last of the Third Ave. el.When the Myrtle Ave. el ceased there was no such thing as air pollution and diesel fuel to power the buses was cheap. |
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| (1488701) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3 |
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Posted by Express Rider on Fri Oct 5 15:03:19 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3, posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 5 12:59:08 2018. re: it seems as if the MTA went out of their way to shrink the scope of regional responsibility.very well put! you couldn't have said it better |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3 |
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Posted by Express Rider on Fri Oct 5 15:06:49 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3, posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 5 12:59:08 2018. from north of Myrtle-Broadway, to Glendate and its adjacent neighborhoods (the latter with no other transit nearby) there was no more one seat ride to downtown Brooklyn, or IND access through transfer at Jay St. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3 |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Oct 5 16:36:06 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3, posted by Express Rider on Fri Oct 5 15:06:49 2018. Actually, when the M was routed down to the BMT South, a one seat ride to downtown Bkln was again available although it took a bit longer than the 23 min from Met to Bridge St. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3 |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Oct 5 16:39:00 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Oct 5 14:20:02 2018. One of the problems was that the neighborhoods through which the Myrtle el traveled were in decline much like the neighborhoods along Bway Bkln and despite the limited protests, ridership was declining. Had the ell lasted a fe more years when the neighborhoods rebounded, the el would likely have remained. |
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| (1488720) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 5 18:03:30 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3, posted by randyo on Fri Oct 5 16:39:00 2018. So...?Tear down everything was the answer? Make it harder for the folks that remained to get around? If that IS the reason,then you do understand that That was bigotry hard at work. |
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| (1488747) | |
Myrtle Avenue EL |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Fri Oct 5 21:38:02 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3, posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 5 18:03:30 2018. It was bigtory for sure, but it was also the fact the line would have had to eventually undergo a big-time rebuild in order to get it up to today's standards and there simply wasn't the money for it no matter how ambitious the MTA's plans were then as we were about to head into the twin recessions of 1969-'75 that almost bankrupted NYC with years of corruption catching up in the process.In a rebuild, as I've noted before you likely would have had to rebuild at least portions of the line to two levels of single track with one level jutting out at various points to allow for crossovers (most likely with a consolidation of stations since in a rebuild all stations, including Metropolitan Avenue likely would have been rebuilt to handle 600' trains). As also noted, what likely would have happened by now (and what I'd be doing in a rebuild today) would be to have it where after Navy Street, the line would go underground and join the Montague Street line with stops at Jay Street-Metrotech and Court Street before continuing via the tunnel to Whitehall and then continue to Astoria, most likely as a 24/7 (W) train that could replace the (N) as the full-time to Astoria while the (N) joins the (Q) at 96th/2nd. |
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| (1488764) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Oct 6 01:29:21 2018, in response to Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Wallyhorse on Fri Oct 5 21:38:02 2018. Bigotry huh? You were privy to the decision making process then I suppose.Near bankruptcy was caused by years of corruption. Couldn't be years of freebies could it? |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Oct 6 11:58:15 2018, in response to Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Wallyhorse on Fri Oct 5 21:38:02 2018. I think the upper level station should have been kept in service for M shuttles so as not to delay J trains when they come and go. . |
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| (1488810) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Oct 6 13:38:21 2018, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Joe V on Sat Oct 6 11:58:15 2018. More than sawing off 1/2 foot from the upper level platform was required to accommodate 10 ft wide cars.A fleet of light weight narrow cars would have been required to route M shuttles onto the upper level. The alternative was a major rebuild of the upper level. |
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| (1488812) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Oct 6 13:47:20 2018, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Oct 6 01:29:21 2018. Please elaborate. |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Oct 6 14:13:20 2018, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Oct 6 13:38:21 2018. Randy says the Myrtle el structure could handle steel cars. It was the platforms that could not. |
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| (1488821) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Oct 6 16:44:20 2018, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Oct 6 13:38:21 2018. As said, they would have had to do a major rebuild of the Myrtle EL as a whole, and I didn't even include that part except for the fact all of the platforms now would likely have had to have been rebuilt anyway to fit 600' trains (plus those stations from Myrtle Avenue eastward on the Broadway-Brooklyn Line to at least Essex if not all the way). |
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| (1488827) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Oct 6 17:14:05 2018, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Oct 6 16:44:20 2018. They could have built the R-39sEnd of Problem |
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| (1488831) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Oct 6 19:49:28 2018, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Oct 6 17:14:05 2018. Heck, they could have run a few sets of R-12/14s there. They were ok for the lighter built sections of the Bronx 3d Ave El. |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
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Posted by Bklynsubwaybob on Sat Oct 6 20:52:33 2018, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Oct 6 19:49:28 2018. When I was with Cars & Shops back in 1970 I was told that they were thinking of testing a train of R12/14 cars with the dynamic brakes disabled. I don't know if the test was actually accomplished. |
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| (1488836) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sat Oct 6 22:35:19 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3, posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 5 12:59:08 2018. Even if they didn't connect it to anything else (except the connections it already had to the Jamaica Line), it was valuable in its own right. |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Oct 6 22:56:56 2018, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Bklynsubwaybob on Sat Oct 6 20:52:33 2018. IIRC the R-12/14s that ran on the 3d Ave El had their dynamacs disabled & their controllers could not run beyond the 2nd (parallel?) notch. |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
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Posted by Bklynsubwaybob on Sun Oct 7 00:00:24 2018, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Oct 6 22:56:56 2018. That would be "series". |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
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Posted by Bklynsubwaybob on Sun Oct 7 00:00:55 2018, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Oct 6 22:56:56 2018. That would be "series". |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
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Posted by Bklynsubwaybob on Sun Oct 7 00:00:57 2018, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Oct 6 22:56:56 2018. That would be "series". |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
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Posted by Bklynsubwaybob on Sun Oct 7 00:00:57 2018, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Oct 6 22:56:56 2018. That would be "series". |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
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Posted by Bklynsubwaybob on Sun Oct 7 00:00:57 2018, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Oct 6 22:56:56 2018. That would be "series". |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
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Posted by Bklynsubwaybob on Sun Oct 7 00:00:57 2018, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Oct 6 22:56:56 2018. That would be "series". |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Oct 7 01:11:41 2018, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Bklynsubwaybob on Sun Oct 7 00:00:24 2018. That one I never heard about. The only thing I remember is that the dynamic brake was disabled. |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Oct 7 01:12:21 2018, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Bklynsubwaybob on Sun Oct 7 00:00:57 2018. So you posted a series of responses? |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Oct 7 02:35:19 2018, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by randyo on Sun Oct 7 01:12:21 2018. LOL!!Probably a computer glitch. |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Oct 7 02:37:58 2018, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Oct 6 01:29:21 2018. I read a lot on this back in 2007 when the NYDN did a big series at the time of the 30th anniversary of the NYC Blackout and the ESPN mini-series "The Bronx Is Burning" (that was mainly on the 1977 Yankees) with the NYDN using the same title for their articles. They went into detail on the corruption at the time and so forth. |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
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Posted by Bklynsubwaybob on Sun Oct 7 06:39:49 2018, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by randyo on Sun Oct 7 01:12:21 2018. I'm sorry for the error. I have no idea how that happened. |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
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Posted by Bklynsubwaybob on Sun Oct 7 06:51:13 2018, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by randyo on Sun Oct 7 01:11:41 2018. I never heard of that either. I was merely showing the error he made with naming the second position on the controller "second parallel". I did know that the dynamic brakes were disabled. |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Oct 7 09:17:37 2018, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Bklynsubwaybob on Sun Oct 7 06:39:49 2018. Time to play that broken record on my vintage Magnavox hi-fi. It can fix skips in no time.:) |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
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Posted by Bklynsubwaybob on Sun Oct 7 10:15:36 2018, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Oct 7 09:17:37 2018. First time that's happened to me. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3 |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Oct 7 10:42:26 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Oct 5 07:01:31 2018. Yup, my grandmother said that the el's closure led to her retirement as well, as she lived in Woodhaven and worked as a secretary for a lawyer on Willoughby St. She wasn't going to risk riding the A train because that area had already fallen apart by then. |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Oct 7 11:40:02 2018, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by randyo on Sun Oct 7 01:12:21 2018. You beat me to it with that one!!:) |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Oct 7 12:16:06 2018, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Oct 6 22:56:56 2018. A series of serious series. |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Oct 7 12:43:27 2018, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Oct 7 12:16:06 2018. "A series of serious series."Like baseball in October!! |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Oct 7 12:55:19 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3, posted by MainR3664 on Sat Oct 6 22:35:19 2018. True.Which is the sad part about this. They managed to find money to destroy the line..but no money to save it. Backwards bullshit spawned by bigotry. |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Oct 7 16:14:53 2018, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Oct 7 12:43:27 2018. You would have thought the Mets would have been there after an 11-1 start. Bot they had no bullpen. They must have blown at least 20 games this year because their bullpen couldn't get anyone out. What can you say about a team that plays in Flushing? |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Oct 7 17:22:11 2018, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Bklynsubwaybob on Sun Oct 7 06:51:13 2018. The dynamic brakes were disabled, but I can’t see the dynamic braking causing any more stress to the el structure than the straight friction brakes. |
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