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WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Sep 9 08:36:55 2011 WMATA has released a draft version of the metrorail system map they intend to deploy in June of 2012 in preparation for the opening of Phase I of the N Route Tysons, Dulles, Loudoun County Silver line.WMATA has a survey on their web site asking for feedback on the draft map: Metrorail Map Survey I recently came into possession of a picture of the 03 27 1976 map. Here they are for Comparison:
John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by GIS Man on Fri Sep 9 08:40:31 2011, in response to WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Sep 9 08:36:55 2011. Presumably the 1976 map is one intended to show future plans? The yellow and green lines were built much later.Bob |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Fri Sep 9 08:49:36 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by GIS Man on Fri Sep 9 08:40:31 2011. I think it's that the black circles on it represent the bits that are actually open. It looked like a registration error at first. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Fri Sep 9 09:09:11 2011, in response to WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Sep 9 08:36:55 2011. A surprisingly good survey.I answered: - Striped line (rather than dashed) for part-time services - Leave the map as is (no dots) for reduced rush hour service - Completely confusing for dots in circles at intermediate terminals (it's too similar to their interchange device; they should change their signage to Eastbound/Westbound etc, rather than relying on outer terminals) - Rush Hours/Non-Rush Hours (rather than Peak/Off-Peak — it's about service levels, not fares) - Yes, show operating times on the map - Call the Dulles extension a branch of the Orange Line, not the Silver Line (to both questions) - Don't show future stations and service - The grey cartouche for the Dulles bus at Rosslyn - The blue P symbols for parking - The proposed terminal RD marker, rather than writing RED LINE alongside the Red Line (although really, I wish they'd put a neither option in there: you'd have to be pretty dumb not to be able to tell that the Red Line was not drawn in blue, orange, yellow, or green) - Yes, remove the prohibitions from the map (they have no wayfinding purpose whatsoever) |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by JohnnyMints on Fri Sep 9 09:14:53 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Fri Sep 9 08:49:36 2011. True, I believe that short section of the Red Line between Rhode Island Avenue and Dupont Circle was the very first operating segment when it first opened in 1976. |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Fri Sep 9 09:19:43 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Fri Sep 9 08:49:36 2011. Indeed, you are right. Wow, what it must've been like at that time, before the entire system was established. |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Sep 9 10:05:56 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Fri Sep 9 09:09:11 2011. They say the color descriptions are very helpful for people who are colorblind. |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Fri Sep 9 10:18:31 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Fri Sep 9 09:09:11 2011. The proposed terminal RD marker, rather than writing RED LINE alongside the Red Line (although really, I wish they'd put a neither option in there: you'd have to be pretty dumb not to be able to tell that the Red Line was not drawn in blue, orange, yellow, or green)Actually, one would need to be colorblind (not dumb) to exhibit what you describe. |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Sep 9 10:18:46 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by GIS Man on Fri Sep 9 08:40:31 2011. Presumably the 1976 map is one intended to show future plans? The yellow and green lines were built much later.That would be correct, later maps filled in the circles as the system expanded. The map represented the Adopted Regional System (ARS) that was planed to be built. As I recall sometime in the late 80s early 90s future segments were hashed to identify future much like the Silver line on the draft map. You will notice that the Yellow line went to two separate Springfield and Franconia stations and the Blue line went to Huntington, several of the station names are different because the alignments and station location were changed before construction, the Southern Green line has one more station compared to the 1976 map. I presented the maps to show the elegant simplicity of the 1976 map compared to draft 2012 map. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Sep 9 10:21:09 2011, in response to WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Sep 9 08:36:55 2011. I said dashes over stripes for rush hour serviceRush hours instead of peak hours No dots for reduced rush hour service (unless you are at Huntington or Eisenhower, you'll still be able to get to the stations between Mount Vernon Square and Fort Totten 3-4 times an hour) Blue parking symbols Write out the line names the way they are now My biggest issues as follows: The idea of calling the line to IAD a spur of the Orange Line. This "spur" is 23 miles long and one of its major destinations (the airport) is way beyond the split at East Falls Church. Considering the frequency with which the topic of the A train split before getting to JFK comes up on this board and all the signs at A train stations in New York telling people not to get on a Lefferts Boulevard train, why does anyone think that sort of problem won't come up in DC, especially when tourists just get told to get on an Orange Line train? Also, how is it that until the bloggers all moved to DC half an hour ago that people were able to figure out how the intermediate terminals worked? Yes, it is a bit confusing with the Yellow Line to Mount Vernon Square/Fort Totten, but why does DC need these ugly, pointless filled in dots at the terminal stations when every other city with short turning services somehow gets by without them? They should just leave things as they are, bold the terminal stations (the way they are on the BART map), and/or write on the descriptions for the lines at the top of the map something like Shady Grove or Grosvenor to Silver Spring or Glenmont. Finally, and I've been saying this for awhile, the split lines situation would go away if they match the endpoints of the lines with the frequencies at which they need to be run. Therefore, I propose the following line pairings (change the color names if desired): Orange: Vienna to Largo Blue: Franconia to Stadium-Armory Silver: Tysons/Dulles/Route 772 to New Carrollton (I realize it is a long trip, but it isn't that much longer than to Stadium-Armory) There would still be a split on the Yellow Line south of Alexandria, but that is better than the current proposal IMO. Finally, David Alpert needs to realize that most of the ideas from his map contest didn't carry over to the new map. In fact, many of the maps were downright awful and in some cases practically useless. I'm glad they more or less stuck with the current design. It is pretty remarkable how a guy with enough money that he doesn't need to work a real job can be come a so called expert on topics about which if the institutional memory at WTOP, the Washington Post, WMATA, and among his buddies were longer than a few hours, ignore the history of the DC region and its complexities, especially when it comes to Metro. That isn't to say that progressive planning processes shouldn't be implemented in the DC area, such as bike lanes, because they should, but his arrogant, I'm right and anyone who disagrees with me is dead wrong attitude and total ignorance on how things came to be the way they are today over the course of time long before he came to DC is something that the DC area could do without. |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Sep 9 10:22:51 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Sep 9 10:05:56 2011. Also, can you explain the rationale behind why the lines to Dulles AND Vienna should be Orange? You can see my post in this thread on why I think it is a bad idea... |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Sep 9 10:24:12 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Sep 9 10:18:46 2011. John, did you take the survey, and if so, I'd be interested in hearing how you responded to the questions.Hope your collection weathered Irene better than it did with Isabel... |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Sep 9 10:33:31 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Fri Sep 9 09:09:11 2011. Striped line (rather than dashed) for part-time servicesI answered the same because dashed represented future on past maps. Call the Dulles extension a branch of the Orange Line, not the Silver Line (to both questions) I believe the line should be a separate color as it short turns at Stadium-Armory. Also terminal to terminal service levels will be less because of the signaling system along the branch is designed for longer headways. The grey cartouche for the Dulles bus at Rosslyn I liked none because airport codes were used on all of the choices. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Sep 9 10:47:02 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Sep 9 10:24:12 2011. John, did you take the survey, and if so, I'd be interested in hearing how you responded to the questions.I did. Separate colors for the Orange and Silver lines. Stripes instead dashes for peak service. Didn’t like any of the options for the airport bus service, don’t recall what I chose. Everything else went along with what is on the draft map Hope your collection weathered Irene better than it did with Isabel... Got nothing more then the blow from a typical thunder storm. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Fri Sep 9 11:52:55 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Sep 9 10:18:46 2011. The new map you linked is quite confusing, especially with the dotted structure for the Yellow Line. Of course, I had no idea what they meant before I took the survey, as I was only thinking of the Yellow Line running in Off-Peak hours only. So, if it's running up to Fort Totten "full time" (albeit only every 20 minutes), why do anything different for that portion of the line? They should have done that when the Yellow Line was only running off peak service!I don't like the multiple branches per line color, though, but I guess people are used to it as WMATA changes things up from time to time for high ridership days like Independence Day, right? |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Fri Sep 9 11:53:52 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Sep 9 10:33:31 2011. I didn't like the use of the Airport Codes, but I felt the last choice (Bus with arrow to plane) was the best. I'd replace the airport code with "Dulles Airport" though. |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Fri Sep 9 12:03:54 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Sep 9 10:33:31 2011. "Striped line (rather than dashed) for part-time services"I answered the same because dashed represented future on past maps. Better reason than mine. I just thought it was more distinctive, stylish, and in-keeping with the heavy line weights used on the Metro map. I believe the line should be a separate color as it short turns at Stadium-Armory. Should the various Yellow Line short turns all have separate colors then? The color should be for the line, not the service pattern. |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Fri Sep 9 12:15:30 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Fri Sep 9 12:03:54 2011. Should the various Yellow Line short turns all have separate colors then? The color should be for the line, not the service pattern.But, with your way of thinking, the Yellow Line would essentially be a branch of the Green Line and be identified as such, as all Yellow Line trains "short turn" at Fort Totten or Mt. Vernon Square. |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Fri Sep 9 19:40:19 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Sep 9 10:21:09 2011. The idea of calling the line to IAD a spur of the Orange Line. This "spur" is 23 miles long and one of its major destinations (the airport) is way beyond the split at East Falls Church. Considering the frequency with which the topic of the A train split before getting to JFK comes up on this board and all the signs at A train stations in New York telling people not to get on a Lefferts Boulevard train, why does anyone think that sort of problem won't come up in DC, especially when tourists just get told to get on an Orange Line train?All trains that operate on the trunk between Rosslyn and Stadium-Armory should be called Orange Line trains. Triple lines are incredibly ugly and clutter the central area of the map where the most clarity is needed. Passengers on a branch at one end of the line don't need to know which of the branches at the other end of the line the train has come from, and that system is already breaking down with some trains going from the Vienna Branch to the Largo Branch. New York is a poor example, as the A train is just one service on the blue 8th Avenue Line. There is a specific problem there with at least three variations on the same service being given the same letter, whilst people expect the letters and numbers to distinguish branches. A better example would be London: the Piccadilly Line branches at Acton Town, with some trains continuing to Heathrow Airport, whilst others continue to Rayner's Lane or Uxbridge. As it's obvious that the Piccadilly Line branches, people will check the destination of the train to ensure they end up on the right branch; no-one is confuse, as the destinations are used to differentiate between the services, just as letters and numbers are used on most lines in New York. I actually think the London system is the better one, as the letters are susceptible to change with branch pairings at either end of a line, whilst the line names and termini are relatively constant. Finally, David Alpert needs to realize that most of the ideas from his map contest didn't carry over to the new map. In fact, many of the maps were downright awful and in some cases practically useless. That I can agree with. |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Fri Sep 9 19:42:53 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Fri Sep 9 12:15:30 2011. Yes. The Washington Metro has three lines. |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Sep 9 23:49:19 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Fri Sep 9 11:52:55 2011. The new map you linked is quite confusing, especially with the dotted structure for the Yellow Line. Of course, I had no idea what they meant before I took the survey, as I was only thinking of the Yellow Line running in Off-Peak hours only. So, if it's running up to Fort Totten "full time" (albeit only every 20 minutes), why do anything different for that portion of the line? They should have done that when the Yellow Line was only running off peak service!Not all Yellow line trains will go to Greenbelt during peak. As I understand it the Yellow line as it is operated today will remain the same. Peak Yellow line trains out of Springfield - Franconia will go to Greenbelt. I don't like the multiple branches per line color, though, but I guess people are used to it as WMATA changes things up from time to time for high ridership days like Independence Day, right? I don't like it either. I think the Silver line should run to Largo during peak in lieu of the Orange trains that will short turn at West Falls Church. During the studies that were done to come up with this service reconfiguration the Springfield - Franconia / Greenbelt service was identified as the Teal or Aqua line. The Independence Day service reconfiguration hasn't been done for the last couple of years, WMATA does however beef up the level of service throughout the day and basically throws everything at the railroad after the festivities. After events at the Verizon Center some Blue line train operated between Mount Vernon Square and Springfield - Franconia. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sat Sep 10 00:15:21 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Sep 9 10:21:09 2011. You and I hold very different political opinions, however your thoughts on David Alpert and his blog pretty much somes it up. Mr. Alpert accumulated his wealth during the years he worked at Google.com. One of the things that fits David Alpert to a T is something Rush Limbaugh mentions quite regularly "A lot peoples vision of history begins at the time of their earliest memory as a child".John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sat Sep 10 00:25:06 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Fri Sep 9 11:53:52 2011. I didn't like the use of the Airport Codes, but I felt the last choice (Bus with arrow to plane) was the best. I'd replace the airport code with "Dulles Airport" though.I think that's the one I chose. I would also spell out Baltimore Washington International Airport instead of BWI. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sat Sep 10 01:07:12 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Fri Sep 9 12:03:54 2011. Should the various Yellow Line short turns all have separate colors then? The color should be for the line, not the service pattern.Actually I believe the various terminal to terminal services should be shown as individual lines.  John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Sep 10 13:25:06 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Fri Sep 9 19:40:19 2011. I had a feeling you'd write back about the Piccadilly Line, but at least in that case the last stop is Heathrow and it is prominently displayed on the train signs and in announcements as a result. That will not be the case with Dulles. We're just going to wind up with a situation like you had in London before the Hammersmith & City Line came about where many lines on the map were purple, but for WMATA, it will be Orange instead. I agree a triple line is large (but again, you have one in London along the north side of the circle line) and maybe the lines can be made narrower to accommodate while retaining the DC map's original identity. |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Sep 10 13:43:26 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Sand Box John on Sat Sep 10 00:15:21 2011. I read the profile on him in the City Paper that is online and can't say it gave me a favorable opinion of him or what he is doing (the last paragraph and quote are very telling of his attitude and why I don't have a very favorable opinion of him). If I had the time (never mind my potentially diminished position being 6000 miles from DC at the moment), it would be an interesting endeavor to do a counter GGW/Unsuck Metro where there would be a mix of actual planning policy, technical knowledge of how the system was built, and local knowledge dating back more than a few years. That isn't to say that WMATA needs improvement in some areas, but some issues have been blown wildly out of proportion. Meanwhile, no one seems to be asking the big $64,000 questions. For example, does anyone remember that DuPont south side was closed for a complete escalator replacement about 15 years ago? I do, I used the station regularly during that time. Also, the media latched on to the issues of trains opening their doors with a car off the platform due to 8 car trains stopping short but has forgotten the original reason for why that was able to happen, the safety system that would prevent the doors from opening in that circumstance has been disabled for about 3 years now if my recollection is correct.I like what has become of areas such as Columbia Heights in recent years and it is great to see an influx of new people into the region with new ideas, but progress doesn't have to be made at the expense of long time residents of a region. Additionally, just because something is done in Boston (where David comes from), doesn't mean it needs to be imported to Washington or anywhere else (when I was in Boston in May and mentioned to some people that the MBTA was being held as a gold standard for how WMATA should improve, their reaction was they would rather ride WMATA over the MBTA any day, I guess David wasn't into transit planning and policy much in his Boston days). I agree you and I have different political leanings, but I think that the notions of respecting long time residents of an area and their expertise and insight and not assuming that whatever you are familiar with is inherently best are axioms that can be held by anyone regardless of where they fall on the political spectrum. |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sat Sep 10 13:45:41 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Sep 10 13:25:06 2011. I agree a triple line is large (but again, you have one in London along the north side of the circle line) and maybe the lines can be made narrower to accommodate while retaining the DC map's original identity.That's what they did with branch or through future Silver line. Though not perfect, I think it is a good compromise. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sat Sep 10 15:08:43 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Sep 10 13:43:26 2011. I read the profile on him in the City Paper that is online and can't say it gave me a favorable opinion of him or what he is doing (the last paragraph and quote are very telling of his attitude and why I don't have a very favorable opinion of him).David is like many progressive liberal. They want to impose the way they want to live on others. They will use the power of government through taxation or regulation to achieve their goal. There is one issue David has that I do agree with, That being the mandated parking requirements placed on developers. He believes there should be lower or no minimums and lower maximums. I believes the developer should be allow to build as little or as much as he feels fit. I even got a mention in the article. Never mind fact that I am not an advocate but more of a student of the nuts and bolts of how the railroad was built and how it operates. The writer of the article never asked me who I was or what my background was. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Sep 10 17:14:43 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Sand Box John on Sat Sep 10 15:08:43 2011. Say what you want about my politics, but good urban planning requires balances between automobiles, pedestrians, bicyclists, and transit. It is simply unrealistic to undo America's car dependency and turn it into Europe overnight for a whole host of reasons. I do think government should be advocating smart growth and designing walkable and bikeable cities and urban centers, but cars fit into that picture as well.a student of the nuts and bolts of how the railroad was built and how it operates We need more of those. You have probably forgotten more about how those nuts and bolts and operational details than these other people have ever known. We need other people with your knowledge to enter the discussion. |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Sep 10 17:34:14 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Sep 10 17:14:43 2011. It is simply unrealistic to undo America's car dependency and turn it into Europe overnight for a whole host of reasonsEurope's not car-undependent. And Europe's politics are taking away freedom piece by piece. |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sat Sep 10 17:35:25 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Fri Sep 9 19:42:53 2011. I guess so if you solely identify each line by the trunk in the tunnel. Even the MTA has a letter or number designator for each branch of the Manhattan subway lines, though. |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Sep 10 17:52:27 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Sep 10 13:25:06 2011. I agree a triple line is large (but again, you have one in London along the north side of the circle line)That makes the Warren Street area of the map really quite awkward. and maybe the lines can be made narrower to accommodate while retaining the DC map's original identity. I actually think that would be a shame: the ultra-heavy line weights are something that looks very DC to me. |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Sep 10 17:56:53 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Sand Box John on Sat Sep 10 01:07:12 2011. That makes it look as if the Yellow Line is three times as frequent as the Green Line. Assuming 5-minute headways off-peak, then the Green Line must run every 20 minutes or so. ;-) |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Sat Sep 10 22:02:10 2011, in response to WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Sep 9 08:36:55 2011. FINALLY! Shortened names - and footnames in smaller print!=w= |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Sep 11 00:49:14 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Sep 10 17:56:53 2011. That makes it look as if the Yellow Line is three times as frequent as the Green Line. Assuming 5-minute headways off-peak, then the Green Line must run every 20 minutes or so. ;-)If one fails to read the legend yes. But then legends are there to explain what things in the map mean. Unfortunately metrorail's levels of service have grown to be so complex that the simplicity of Lance Wyman 1976 map no long works. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sun Sep 11 00:53:14 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Sep 10 17:56:53 2011. That's my only criticism of the map as well, even though I like the general idea. |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Sep 11 00:59:00 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Sat Sep 10 22:02:10 2011. FINALLY! Shortened names - and footnames in smaller print!If I had my way the footnames (I like that WMATA centric new word you just invented) would be eliminated. The only thing the small print would convey is the physical location of the station. (Street address or cross street) John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by Brighton Private on Sun Sep 11 09:17:02 2011, in response to WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Sep 9 08:36:55 2011. The old map is a little misleading in that the Dupont Circle station was not among the originally opened stations. For a while, the western terminus of the Red Line was Farragut North. |
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Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Sep 11 09:18:12 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Brighton Private on Sun Sep 11 09:17:02 2011. Neither was Gallery Place. Perhaps John can tell us more, but perhaps they printed the map in accordance with the plan that both stations would be among the first to open. |
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| (1100878) | |
Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Sun Sep 11 10:10:33 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Sand Box John on Sun Sep 11 00:59:00 2011. What part of SHAW don't they understand? Howard University would then become a footname, as would stuff like Cardozo, GMU, AU, and every other college, university, high school and frat house.-wayne- |
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| (1100880) | |
Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Sun Sep 11 10:13:22 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Fri Sep 9 19:40:19 2011. And then there is the conundrum that is the District Line...I am in total agreement about "A" service, which SHOULD properly be "A", "H" and "K" service - Lefferts, Rockaway Park and Far Rockaway. wayne |
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| (1100893) | |
Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Sep 11 10:45:52 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Sun Sep 11 10:13:22 2011. And then there is the conundrum that is the District Line...No-one would build a railroad like the SSL these days. But the District Line is a classic case of coloring two trunk lines (Main Line and Edgware Road) in the same color; the rolling stock isn't even interchangeable. |
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| (1100898) | |
Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Sun Sep 11 11:12:55 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Sand Box John on Sat Sep 10 00:25:06 2011. I don't know *ANYONE* who is a native or who has lived here for any length of time who calls it anything but "BWI." Well, maybe a few tightly-wrapped, anal-retentive types who can't bring themselves to use the vernacular. Only the media includes occasional references to "Thurgood Marshall" in connection with the airport. And, the vast majority of folks (including the airlines) call the close-in airport "National" or "DCA;" Only the media and Republicans call it "Reagan."Sidebar: The term "The DMV" is absurd and simply has got to go. Use "NCA" or "NCR" if you must. |
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| (1100916) | |
Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Sep 11 11:52:23 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Sun Sep 11 10:10:33 2011. Howard University, eh? Moe would be president, Curly would be the dean and Shemp....? |
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| (1100919) | |
Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Sep 11 12:01:23 2011, in response to WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Sep 9 08:36:55 2011. Neither was Gallery Place. Perhaps John can tell us more, but perhaps they printed the map in accordance with the plan that both stations would be among the first to open.I hadn’t notice that. That makes it a 03 17 1977 map, anyway, the earliest generations of the system map were far more simple compared to today's map. As I recall the maps that appeared in the stations and aboard the trains on 03 27 1976 only showed the stations between Farragut North and Rhode Island Avenue as open, that included Gallery Place as the suit over the lack of elevator access was filed within a few week of opening. Long before the initial segment opened between Farragut North and Rhode Island Avenue was set (known back then as Phase I) plans called for Phase I to run between Rhode Island Avenue and Dupont Circle. The destination signs of that era reflected this fact.   The postponing of the opening of Dupont Circle with the rest of Phase I was attributed to construction delays and the fact that the station was flooded on 09 27 75 by the remnants of tropical storm Eloise. Track had been laid through the station, tunnel and station lighting had been installed and the switch gear for the traction power tie breaker station had been installed. I don’t recall if any of the train control ground equipment had been installed yet.  John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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| (1100920) | |
Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Sep 11 12:02:15 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Sep 11 09:18:12 2011. Neither was Gallery Place. Perhaps John can tell us more, but perhaps they printed the map in accordance with the plan that both stations would be among the first to open.I hadn’t notice that. That makes it a 03 17 1977 map, anyway, the earliest generations of the system map were far more simple compared to today's map. As I recall the maps that appeared in the stations and aboard the trains on 03 27 1976 only showed the stations between Farragut North and Rhode Island Avenue as open, that included Gallery Place as the suit over the lack of elevator access was filed within a few week of opening. Long before the initial segment opened between Farragut North and Rhode Island Avenue was set (known back then as Phase I) plans called for Phase I to run between Rhode Island Avenue and Dupont Circle. The destination signs of that era reflected this fact. The postponing of the opening of Dupont Circle with the rest of Phase I was attributed to construction delays and the fact that the station was flooded on 09 27 75 by the remnants of tropical storm Eloise. Track had been laid through the station, tunnel and station lighting had been installed and the switch gear for the traction power tie breaker station had been installed. I don’t recall if any of the train control ground equipment had been installed yet. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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| (1100922) | |
Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Sep 11 12:07:47 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Sun Sep 11 11:12:55 2011. I despise acronyms.John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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| (1100928) | |
Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Sep 11 12:14:24 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Sand Box John on Sun Sep 11 12:01:23 2011. Why did I suspect that photo was going to wind up in that post?? ;-) |
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| (1100941) | |
Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Sun Sep 11 12:51:54 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Sep 11 11:52:23 2011. Google this: "Violent is the Word for Curly" and "Swingin' the Alphabet". That's Howard University for you.You can't leave Larry out of the equation either. =-w-= |
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| (1100945) | |
Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Sun Sep 11 12:57:39 2011, in response to Re: WMATA: Comparing the first map to the latest, posted by Sand Box John on Sun Sep 11 00:49:14 2011. WMATA really needs to implement a variation of the NY-style letter/trunk route designations. For example:A (Red): Shady Grove/Glenmont (normal route) F (Red): Shady Grove/Silver Spring (midday short-line) G (Red): Grosvenor/Glenmont (rush hour short-line) H (Red): Grosvenor/Silver Spring (special short-line) N (Red): Medical Center/Union Station (special short-line) B (Blue): Largo/Franconia-Springfield (normal route) Q (Blue): Rosslyn or Foggy Bottom/Eastern Market or Stadium-Armory (special short-line) C (Green): Greenbelt/Branch Av (normal route) R (Green): Ft. Totten/Anacostia (special short-line) D (Orange): Vienna/New Carrollton (normal route) J (Orange): West Falls Church/Largo (rush hour extra) T (Orange): Ballston/Stadium-Armory (special short-line) E (Yellow): Ft. Totten/Huntington (normal route) K (Yellow): Mt. Vernon Sq./Huntington (rush hour short-line) L (Yellow): Greenbelt/Franconia-Springfield (rush hour extra) M (Silver): Dulles/Stadium-Armory (normal route) |
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