ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey

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ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey
Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Aug 31 12:52:00 2010 edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d From Haaretz, pretty disgusting on the part of the private consortium building the light rail if you ask me: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey Transport Ministry, J'lem municipal officials say company building light rail system had no right to ask city residents whether it would bother them if Palestinians were to use the system under various conditions. By Nir Hasson Municipal officials slammed the company that won the Jerusalem light rail tender for publishing a survey asking city residents whether it would bother them if Palestinians were to use the system under various conditions. Officials from the municipality and the Transportation Ministry called the questions "racist," and said they should not have been asked, especially not by a private company. Last week, Haaretz reported that the CityPass consortium had asked Jerusalem residents, "There are three stops in Shuafat; does this bother you?" and "All passengers, Jews and Arabs, can enter the train freely, without undergoing a security check. Does this bother you?" Municipal director general Yair Maayan sent a strongly worded letter to Avraham Shohat, CityPass' chairman, on Friday. The letter was titled, "Request for an examination and for drawing conclusions." "We were flabbergasted to see how a private commercial consortium dared to address these subjects, which are none of its business whatsoever; to ask such racist questions and to arouse strife and contention in the city," said the letter, citing the Haaretz article. Maayan demanded Shohat insure that the company investigate and find out who was responsible for the survey questions. This is just another case highlighting the troubled relations between the authorities and the consortium. The sides have been engaged in extended finger-pointing over the project's delays and the suffering this has caused city residents. Transportation Ministry officials also said the company had no right to ask such questions. "Instead of dealing with the real thing, they are busy with surveys," one ministry official fumed. "What do they need that for?" A spokesman for CityPass responded, "The light rail in Jerusalem is supposed to serve all the city's residents and to be an important growth lever for all parts of the city. The survey's goal was to help prepare for various facets of the train's extremely complex operation, including the particular security situation in Jerusalem. "It is a shame that the municipal director general attributed totally unfounded significance to the survey, whose only aim was to improve the service to all the residents," said the spokesman. "This merely adds unnecessary fuel to the fire and certainly does not serve the interests of the city's residents. The survey was not meant to offend any residents, and we shall change it accordingly."
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(973311)	view threaded
Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey
Posted by Chris R16/R2730* on Tue Aug 31 12:58:07 2010, in response to ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Aug 31 12:52:00 2010.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I'd like to see what these people tell the families of the victims of the first Palestinian suicide bomber who carries out an attack on this rail system after not undergoing a rigorous security check beforehand. What's a few innocent lives compared to maintaining political correctness, eh?
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(973324)	view threaded
Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey
Posted by vfrt* on Tue Aug 31 13:20:14 2010, in response to Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Aug 31 12:58:07 2010.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d ==What's a few innocent lives compared to maintaining political correctness, eh?== Excellent point. Their heads are up there asses more than in the sand!
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(973329)	view threaded
Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey
Posted by WMATAGMOAGH* on Tue Aug 31 13:23:08 2010, in response to Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Aug 31 12:58:07 2010.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d There are no security checks to board buses from the side of the street here. There are security checks (metal detectors and x-ray machines for all bags or hand-held magnetometers with manual bag searches) at the entrances to all the major bus terminals and all train stations throughout the country. I believe bus drivers are told to scan the waiting crowd at a bus stop and to skip the stop if they suspect someone waiting is a bomber. There also has not been a suicide bomber on a bus for many years now, and hopefully that trend will continue. You still support security checks at every light rail station, or just at the ones in Arab neighborhoods? Do you support the bag searches on NYCT?
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(973339)	view threaded
Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey
Posted by G1Ravage* on Tue Aug 31 13:55:52 2010, in response to ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Aug 31 12:52:00 2010.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Good grief, such drama over nothing.
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(973348)	view threaded
Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey
Posted by Brighton Private* on Tue Aug 31 14:52:25 2010, in response to ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Aug 31 12:52:00 2010.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d The survey is offensive and possibly discriminatory, but it cannot be racist because the distinction between Jews and Arabs is not racial. It is ethnic, and sually religious, but not racial. That doesn't make it any better, I just hate the indiscriminate (pun intended) use of the word "racial" and "racist." There are many kinds of equally offensive discrimination, and not all of them involve race.
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(973350)	view threaded
Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey
Posted by Chris R16/R2730* on Tue Aug 31 14:59:36 2010, in response to Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Aug 31 13:23:08 2010.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I don't support bag searches because they are random, meaning the deliberately avoid doing what's necessary, which is targeting Middle Eastern looking people.
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(973359)	view threaded
Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey
Posted by WMATAGMOAGH* on Tue Aug 31 15:23:49 2010, in response to Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey, posted by Brighton Private on Tue Aug 31 14:52:25 2010.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d You raise a good point and very valid point. I can't find the Hebrew version of the article to see what word they used, but it could be a translation issue, and the original article in Hebrew might have used a better word.
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(973376)	view threaded
Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey
Posted by NIMBYkiller* on Tue Aug 31 17:01:41 2010, in response to Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Aug 31 14:59:36 2010.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Despite the fact that so many people arrested for attempted terrorism haven't even been middle eastern looking?
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(973880)	view threaded
Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey
Posted by kahlua* on Wed Sep 1 12:54:27 2010, in response to Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Aug 31 12:58:07 2010.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin, 1755.
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(973881)	view threaded
Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey
Posted by Terrapin Station* on Wed Sep 1 13:05:06 2010, in response to Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey, posted by kahlua on Wed Sep 1 12:54:27 2010.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d And that applies to Israel how exactly? I haven't taken a close look at the laws of the country. Have you? If you have, maybe you can explain this to me. Thanks.
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(973893)	view threaded
Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey
Posted by Fred G* on Wed Sep 1 14:15:07 2010, in response to Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Sep 1 13:05:06 2010.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d His name was really Ben Franklinstein. Sorry I could not resist LOL. your pal, Fred
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(973895)	view threaded
Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey
Posted by Olog-hai* on Wed Sep 1 14:18:12 2010, in response to Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey, posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue Aug 31 17:01:41 2010.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Arrested or convicted?
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(973896)	view threaded
Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey
Posted by Olog-hai* on Wed Sep 1 14:18:37 2010, in response to Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Aug 31 12:58:07 2010.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d This is Ha'aretz going left once more.
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(973897)	view threaded
Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey
Posted by Olog-hai* on Wed Sep 1 14:20:10 2010, in response to Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey, posted by Fred G on Wed Sep 1 14:15:07 2010.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d
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(973901)	view threaded
Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey
Posted by Terrapin Station* on Wed Sep 1 14:31:30 2010, in response to Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey, posted by Fred G on Wed Sep 1 14:15:07 2010.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d LOL
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(973917)	view threaded
Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey
Posted by WMATAGMOAGH* on Wed Sep 1 15:06:54 2010, in response to Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey, posted by kahlua on Wed Sep 1 12:54:27 2010.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d We aren't talking about the US here...
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(973929)	view threaded
Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey
Posted by subfan* on Wed Sep 1 15:23:42 2010, in response to Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Aug 31 15:23:49 2010.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d The word used is probably Gizanut, which refers to racial or ethnic discrimination.
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(974022)	view threaded
Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey
Posted by Dave* on Wed Sep 1 18:49:53 2010, in response to Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey, posted by Fred G on Wed Sep 1 14:15:07 2010.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d LOL! Good one, Fred!!
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(974120)	view threaded
Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey
Posted by CentrolinerDD* on Thu Sep 2 02:15:50 2010, in response to ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Aug 31 12:52:00 2010.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Does someone know where I can find a geographically-accurate map of the Jerusalem Light Rail? I saw the diagrammatic representation from CityPass' website. But my geographic knowledge of Jerusalem is not very good and I cannot seem to find the station locations on Google Maps.
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(974124)	view threaded
Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey
Posted by WMATAGMOAGH* on Thu Sep 2 02:39:38 2010, in response to Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey, posted by CentrolinerDD on Thu Sep 2 02:15:50 2010.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Yes, the light rail and station locations are included on my (unofficial) Jerusalem Bus Map, which is available on Google Maps (and Google Earth). Click here for the Google Maps version. When it loads, everything shows up, so on the left side menu, click the top most layer (Jerusalem Local Bus Map/מפת אוטובוסים העירונים בירושלים), then scroll down to the bottom to bring back only the light rail. Let me know if you have any problems or further questions.
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Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey
Posted by kahlua* on Thu Sep 2 09:35:34 2010, in response to Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Sep 1 13:05:06 2010.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I guess Israelis and Palestinians don't deserve liberty because they aren't American??? Is that the way you feel? Guess what, that isn't in American law either, it's a statement that can be true irregardless of nationality.
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(974193)	view threaded
Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey
Posted by WMATAGMOAGH* on Thu Sep 2 09:46:22 2010, in response to Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey, posted by kahlua on Thu Sep 2 09:35:34 2010.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d The laws of the United States do not apply in Israel. Also, the countries do not share a common history and the security issues that Israel faces must be dealt differently than the way similar issues are dealt with in the United States. Unlike in the US, all Israelis and Palestinians must carry national ID cards with them at all times, and foreigners must carry their passports The ID card or passport must be handed over for inspection upon the request of a police officer. Similar rules exist in many other countries throughout the world.
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(974196)	view threaded
Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey
Posted by Terrapin Station* on Thu Sep 2 09:49:21 2010, in response to Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey, posted by kahlua on Thu Sep 2 09:35:34 2010.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Completely false. Our nation is built upon principles of freedom and there are specific documents written to that effect. That is what Ben was talking about. Like I said, I don't know what specific principles or documents exist in Israel, but you better know if you're going to try to apply an American idea to Israel.
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(974208)	view threaded
Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey
Posted by kahlua* on Thu Sep 2 10:12:11 2010, in response to Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Sep 2 09:46:22 2010.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d You are correct about security and security issues, and we have laws that effect here even though we don't have national id.
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(974209)	view threaded
Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey
Posted by kahlua* on Thu Sep 2 10:17:18 2010, in response to Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Sep 2 09:49:21 2010.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Our nation is one built on principles of freedom, however that quote did not come from one of those "specific documents". Its an idea nothing more or nothing less... I guess we only project American ideals on our enemies, not on our allies... How would you feel if a survey came out asking if Jews should be allowed to ride a bus? It does not matter where injustice occurs, it is still injustice.
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(974739)	view threaded
Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey
Posted by CentrolinerDD* on Fri Sep 3 18:08:11 2010, in response to Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Sep 2 02:39:38 2010.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I found it without any problems. Thank you.
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Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey
Posted by WMATAGMOAGH* on Sat Sep 4 13:04:31 2010, in response to Re: ARTICLE: Officials slam 'racist' Jerusalem light rail survey, posted by CentrolinerDD on Fri Sep 3 18:08:11 2010.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d You're welcome.
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