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| (973323) | |
official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46 |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Aug 31 13:19:38 2010 http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/wabtecs-motivepower-unit-signs-contract-with-mbta-for-new-passenger-locomotives-101871003.htmlWabtec's MotivePower Unit Signs Contract With MBTA For New Passenger Locomotives WILMERDING, Pa., Aug. 31 /PRNewswire/ -- MotivePower, a unit of Wabtec Corporation (NYSE: WAB), has signed a contract with the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority (MBTA) to supply 20 next-generation HSP46 passenger locomotives to be delivered in 2012-2013. The order is valued at $114.63 million including training, manuals and spare parts. The EPA Tier 3-compliant locomotives will be manufactured in Boise, Idaho with major components supplied by GE Transportation of Erie, Pa. GE also will work closely with MotivePower on design, integration and testing. Major components supplied by GE from its Erie and Grove City, Pa. facilities will include diesel engines, head-end power systems, computer control systems and its unique individual-axle AC traction systems. The project is expected to create or retain 1,246 jobs. "Commuter rail agencies across North America demand safe, reliable, cost-effective and environmentally responsible service, and locomotive power is a key ingredient," said Albert J. Neupaver, Wabtec's President and Chief Executive Officer. "Our next-generation locomotives and this order from MBTA solidify MotivePower as the leading supplier of passenger locomotives in North America. The new design, with advanced AC traction and remotely monitored on-board diagnostics technologies, also positions us to lead the way in developing locomotives for the higher-speed rail corridors of the future." MotivePower's new HSP46 design leverages a broad spectrum of U.S.-based engineering and manufacturing capabilities to set the new standard for performance expectations in the industry, with improved fuel efficiency, reduced emissions and lower life-cycle costs compared to DC-traction locomotives. The locomotives include the following components and systems manufactured by Wabtec units: Fastbrake electronic air brakes, air compressors, event recorders, tread brake units, brake shoes, aftercoolers and radiators. The combination of MPI's leading integration expertise and GE's fuel savings, emissions reduction and AC traction technologies is poised to deliver the most reliable and efficient passenger locomotive to date. "The MPI and GE Transportation partnership provides passenger application expertise from the two largest North America passenger locomotive manufacturers and the highest level of USA-manufactured locomotive content," said Lorenzo Simonelli, President and CEO of GE Transportation. "We look forward to helping to produce the nation's next-generation higher-speed passenger locomotives." GE's leading technology components were developed for GE's Evolution Series Locomotive, which represents a $400 million, eight-year investment by GE. Today more than 3,700 GE Evolution Series locomotives are in revenue service around the world. The Evolution Series locomotives are noted for fuel savings, emissions reduction, reliable performance and lower total life-cycle cost. Wabtec Corporation is a global provider of value-added, technology-based products and services for rail and other industrial markets. Through its subsidiaries, the company manufactures a range of products for locomotives, freight cars and passenger transit vehicles. The company also builds new switcher and commuter locomotives, and provides aftermarket services. The company has facilities located throughout the world. MotivePower (www.motivepower-wabtec.com) is an industry leader in the design, manufacture and re-manufacture of diesel-electric locomotives. Established more than 100 years ago, GE Transportation (www.getransportation.com), a unit of General Electric Company (NYSE: GE), is a global technology leader and supplier that provides freight and passenger locomotives, signaling and communications systems, information technology solutions, high-quality replacement parts and value added services. SOURCE Wabtec Corporation |
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Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HSP-46ac |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Aug 31 13:26:28 2010, in response to official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46, posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Aug 31 13:19:38 2010. make that HSP-46ac |
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| (973337) | |
Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46 |
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Posted by mike cruz on Tue Aug 31 13:41:19 2010, in response to official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46, posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Aug 31 13:19:38 2010. very nice. now if only LIRR would do something similar. |
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Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46 |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Aug 31 13:51:45 2010, in response to Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46, posted by mike cruz on Tue Aug 31 13:41:19 2010. Im not aware of LIRR being in market for new locomotives, other than 4 switchers. |
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Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46 |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Tue Aug 31 15:12:33 2010, in response to official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46, posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Aug 31 13:19:38 2010. Sellouts. They should have stuck to their EMD roots. It's like Shelby selling modified Toyotas. I am not actually sure who is going to need new passenger diesels any time soon so perhaps Cat has some breathing room to strike back with a new EMD offering. |
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Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46 |
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Posted by nasadowsk on Tue Aug 31 20:05:00 2010, in response to Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46, posted by Jersey Mike on Tue Aug 31 15:12:33 2010. EMD's dead. Why blow millions into trying to either develop a new prime mover or get the 710 to somehow last beyond Tier 3 and 4 emissions (hardly the end of the line), to try to get into a tiny market that remembers the last big effort, the DE/DM-30? |
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Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46 |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Tue Aug 31 21:07:59 2010, in response to Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46, posted by nasadowsk on Tue Aug 31 20:05:00 2010. Um to make a commuter locomotive that has an appropriately peppy 2 stroke engine and good styling? Why would Cat buy EMD just to not do anything with it? |
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Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 31 21:09:49 2010, in response to Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46, posted by Jersey Mike on Tue Aug 31 21:07:59 2010. You mean not do anything passenger-wise. That's at CAT's discretion of course.Also funny that GE's letting the Genesis rot and instead partnering with the maker of ugly ducklings. |
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Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 31 21:10:21 2010, in response to Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46, posted by nasadowsk on Tue Aug 31 20:05:00 2010. That wasn't all EMD. |
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Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HSP-46ac |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Aug 31 21:13:07 2010, in response to Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46, posted by Jersey Mike on Tue Aug 31 21:07:59 2010. Cause EMD has publicly stated they will no longer produce passenger engines and believe that is territory for small specialty companies.as for peppy what EMD engine can produce 4600 Hp right now and if your pushing for Caterpillar what locomotives with Caterpillar engines have been succesfull? |
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Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HSP-46ac |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 31 21:20:17 2010, in response to Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HSP-46ac, posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Aug 31 21:13:07 2010. That's funny, because EMD's a small specialty company now. And they started with passenger, freight and "dual service" engines, as EMC. Looks like they're too stupid to realize that a modern Geep would bring them back quickly. |
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Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HSP-46ac |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Aug 31 21:28:44 2010, in response to Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HSP-46ac, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 31 21:20:17 2010. They had two designs for GP units but no one bought them.they sold their Design to MPI |
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Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HSP-46ac |
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Posted by WillD on Tue Aug 31 21:46:08 2010, in response to Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HSP-46ac, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 31 21:20:17 2010. Looks like they're too stupid to realize that a modern Geep would bring them back quickly.Why? Who is buying new-build four axle road switchers? There are so many four axle road switchers out there with frames that can take a bit more pounding that we're going to see rebuilt locomotives filling those roles for decades to come. EMD was not set up as a rebuilder, and that's why the GP15D and GP20D failed. We'll see if CAT's focus on more specialized product lines will yield a change in EMD's priorities from 300+ unit SD70 orders toward smaller, low horsepower rebuild and passenger units. Certainly some of EMD's press releases supporting the Amtrak and high speed rail funding would seem to point toward a reentry into the passenger market. |
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Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46 |
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Posted by WillD on Tue Aug 31 21:49:05 2010, in response to official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46, posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Aug 31 13:19:38 2010. Well, that kills the "rolling stock must be interchangeable" argument against operating electrics on the Providence line. The GE locomotives will undoubtedly require a change in shop procedures almost equivalent to operating electric locomotives. Bring on the ALP46As, or, since MBTA has a phobia of new-build, the ALP44s. |
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Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HSP-46ac |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 31 22:36:22 2010, in response to Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HSP-46ac, posted by WillD on Tue Aug 31 21:46:08 2010. Who is buying new-build four axle road switchers?They're buying a lot of rebuilt ones. Why not new ones, especially ones that can be just as quickly adapted for commuter service? Won't be so cheap to rebuild old Geeps in the future. EMD was not set up as a rebuilder, and that's why the GP15D and GP20D failed Those were shadows of their former selves indeed. |
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| (973547) | |
Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HSP-46ac |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 31 22:37:37 2010, in response to Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HSP-46ac, posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Aug 31 21:28:44 2010. More like they didn't sell them properly to customers before they sold the designs. |
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Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HSP-46ac |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Aug 31 22:39:49 2010, in response to Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HSP-46ac, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 31 22:37:37 2010. nope even MPI did not have any interst but they did develope their multi engine switchers on same design.The EMD despgnation was mentioned by WillD believe they were GP15D and GP20D |
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Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HSP-46ac |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Aug 31 22:41:48 2010, in response to Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HSP-46ac, posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Aug 31 22:39:49 2010. GP15D only 10 producedGP20D only 40 produced see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_GP20D |
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Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HSP-46ac |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 31 23:23:43 2010, in response to Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HSP-46ac, posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Aug 31 22:41:48 2010. Neither of those were marketed as actual Geeps, but as yard goats. I remember them. |
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Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HSP-46ac |
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Posted by WillD on Tue Aug 31 23:44:50 2010, in response to Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HSP-46ac, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 31 22:36:22 2010. Why not new ones, especially ones that can be just as quickly adapted for commuter service? Won't be so cheap to rebuild old Geeps in the future.That remains to be seen. It is possible we'll see a line of new-build two axle road switchers, but that's extremely unlikely. There are *so* many more 2000-3000hp two axle switchers out there which lived lives easier than they were built for that it's unlikely we'll need new two axle switchers for at least 15 years. The RailPower, MPI, and other rebuilt locomotives are being constructed for lifespans of 15 to 20 years, which they'll likely exceed given the lower horsepower and less stress being put on the frame than their original prime movers created. But even when those locomotives do appear they won't exactly be high performance units, they'll be low horsepower road switchers just like the rebuilt units being churned out by MPI, NRE, RailPower, and so on. The days of the four axle fast freight locomotive died with the radial truck six axle units. They're easier on themselves and the rails, more stable up to about 65mph, and they allow railroads to purchase one basic unit for both hot intermodal, merchant, and drag freight. But like the SDP70F and E60CP years ago, it's debatable as to how these radial trucks with their non-rigid frames will hold up at higher speeds (of course the early Amtrak Co-Cos had rigid trucks). This all means any passenger locomotive with a speed upward of 70mph is going to remain an extremely niche product unless we greatly expand our commuter and state-level rail systems. Those were shadows of their former selves indeed. And little wonder. The railroads bought all those C430s, GP40s, U30Bs, GP50s, B36-7s, GP60s, and Dash 8-40Bs with visions of them leading faster intermodal trains dashing between major yards while reducing axle counts and thus maintenance budgets for those axles by a third. What they wound up with were units that sat in yards and frequently lacked the tractive effort to adequately supplement, let alone supplant six axle units on even the lightest of fast freights. In yard duty the four axle design meant they were insufficient for humping duties, but might be used to trim cars in the bowl. They were frequently consigned to branch line switching duties and when they ventured out onto the mainline, it was frequently in the company of six axle units within the locomotive consist. There are a few notable exceptions, such as BN's use of the LMX B39-8s in helper service over the Cascades, but by and large the four axle road units were never utilized as fully as their six axle counterparts. As such it really only makes sense to use four axle units in roles for which six axle units just make no sense, and those roles are now shrinking. As radial truck equipped SD70s and Dash-9s begin to be phased out of frontline service by the incoming SD70s and GEvo units it is likely they'll even replace the GP40s and so on in light duty branch line switching. Removing some ballast from the current coal haulers would likely reduce their axle loading to be equal or less than a four axle, 3000hp unit, and with radial trucks they don't have the minimum radius concerns of the old rigid three axle truck units. It's possible there will be a problem with operating articulated trucks on some of the really awful branch line and industrial track around the country. The only real salvation for the four axle units will be where they can really make a significant savings relative to a six axle unit. That means putting less strain on the motors with lower horsepower, and consuming significantly less fuel while producing a lot less emissions than their six axle counterparts. That is exactly the market most of the rebuilt four axle road switchers are positioning themselves for. That is precisely the market you'll see EMD or GE work toward if they ever produce a new-build four axle unit. I'd be surprised to see any non-passenger four axle unit, new build or rebuilt, with more than 2500hp under the hood built in the next 20 years. |
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Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46 |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Tue Aug 31 23:58:50 2010, in response to Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 31 21:09:49 2010. Well I mean update the engine line and then bother to get it into a passenger platform with an AC traction option. |
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Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HSP-46ac |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Sep 1 00:03:13 2010, in response to Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HSP-46ac, posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Aug 31 21:13:07 2010. EMD is now a division of Caterpillar, all past statements are out the window. They can also partner with a specialty manufacturer like the promiscuous MPI.Rated HP is not the same as Pep and of course there is the issue of longevity. The EMD Geeps long outlasted the U34CH's and P30's. I trust GE to make a durable locomotive about as far as I can throw them. Why do you think they have to keep re-branding their product line every 10 years? |
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Re: Official announcement about MBTA HSP-46AC |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Sep 1 00:07:42 2010, in response to Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HSP-46ac, posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Sep 1 00:03:13 2010. Yeah . . . GE's reputation and history does precede them. |
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Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HSP-46ac |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Sep 1 00:09:02 2010, in response to Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HSP-46ac, posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Aug 31 22:39:49 2010. EMD is actually re-entering the re-build market with some environmentally branded name. They are dropping a V-12 710 into old SD40 frames and rebuilding all of the other bits. No reason we couldn't see a passenger design come out of that that they or MPI could market to budget minded commuter railroads that want a quick and reliable 80mph 6 car design. |
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Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HSP-46ac |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Sep 1 00:11:27 2010, in response to Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HSP-46ac, posted by WillD on Tue Aug 31 23:44:50 2010. EMD is now offering a rebuilt Geep as part of their ECO linehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_GP22ECO 2200hp with a V-8 710. They offer a similar SD22 and an SD32 with a V-12. |
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Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46 |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Sep 1 00:24:22 2010, in response to Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46, posted by WillD on Tue Aug 31 21:49:05 2010. They will probably live either all on the north side or south side. |
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Re: Official announcement about MBTA HSP-46AC |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Sep 1 00:48:50 2010, in response to Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HSP-46ac, posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Sep 1 00:09:02 2010. If they rebuilt with AC traction, six cars wouldn't be the limit. |
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Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HSP-46ac |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Sep 1 00:51:04 2010, in response to Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HSP-46ac, posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Sep 1 00:11:27 2010. 2200hp with a V-8 710Impressive. Would be nice if stupid Iarnrod Eireann didn't get rid of their JL8s (built with V8 567s and 645s); they could certainly use locos like that once their DMUs start crapping out. |
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Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HSP-46ac |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed Sep 1 07:05:00 2010, in response to Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HSP-46ac, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 31 23:23:43 2010. wonder what GP stands for, last time I looked General Purpose or in Railroad terms Road-switcher. |
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Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HSP-46ac |
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Posted by WillD on Wed Sep 1 15:29:57 2010, in response to Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HSP-46ac, posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Aug 31 21:13:07 2010. As Mike noted the announcements regarding the future of EMD's passenger locomotive line were made before Cat bought them up. Now things are rather up in the air, but their press releases would seem to indicate that they will vie for any diesel locomotive orders Amtrak might issue. Certainly their attempt to reenter the rebuild market signals a shift away from their focus on two product lines and into more specialized roles than a few years ago.Additionally EMD does produce an engine which generates more than 4500 hp. The 265H engine remains an option for their SD70 platform. As yet US sales have been sluggish, but they're selling 300 JT56AC locomotives with the 16 cylinder 265H engine in it. The 265H may not be EPA Tier II compliant, but that's mostly because there hasn't been a demand for it from the US railroads. They have stocks of stuff for EMD two stroke diesels, and going to an all four stroke fleet now makes little sense. EMD has long claimed the 710 will meet or exceed Tier 3, and it looks like that will happen. Now that EMD is a part of Cat I'd be willing to bet we'll see Cat adopt the 265H, or EMD will adopt the Cat 3600 series if the railroads demand anything above 4500hp, and a 12 cylinder is an option if lower emissions are required. This likely puts EMD in a better position, with three potential engine designs, than GE in the coming years. Rumors of EMD's passing have been greatly exaggerated. |
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Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46 |
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Posted by van Nostrand on Wed Sep 1 15:39:45 2010, in response to official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46, posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Aug 31 13:19:38 2010. Will I be accused of being cynical and partisan if I complain here about Boston's urban rail rotting away while suburban rail gets splurged on? (What if I cutely phrase my complaint as a hypothetical question?) |
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Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46 |
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Posted by RailBus63 on Wed Sep 1 23:52:18 2010, in response to Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46, posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Sep 1 00:24:22 2010. Political considerations will likely require that some units be assigned on both sides. |
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Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Sep 1 23:55:37 2010, in response to Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46, posted by van Nostrand on Wed Sep 1 15:39:45 2010. Looks like a fair question to me. |
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Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46 |
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Posted by RailBus63 on Thu Sep 2 12:40:08 2010, in response to Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46, posted by van Nostrand on Wed Sep 1 15:39:45 2010. How does replacing a fleet of 29 to 32-year-old locomotives constitute 'splurging'? |
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Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Sep 2 18:33:58 2010, in response to Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46, posted by RailBus63 on Thu Sep 2 12:40:08 2010. Why do they need replacing after that duration? |
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Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46 |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Sep 2 19:10:53 2010, in response to Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Sep 2 18:33:58 2010. Ash tray is full. |
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Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46 |
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Posted by van Nostrand on Thu Sep 2 22:21:17 2010, in response to Re: official Anouncement about MBTA HR-46, posted by RailBus63 on Thu Sep 2 12:40:08 2010. As I said, I knew I was being impertinent. Although there is subway stock just as old which probably won't be replaced anytime soon, I agree that this isn't an example of the splurging that really does take place on Commuter Rail. |
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