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| PATH and Photography (966892) | |
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Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by BMTLines on Fri Aug 13 17:19:34 2010, in response to PATH and Photography, posted by rocketdriver2019 on Fri Aug 13 17:18:00 2010. Exactly as I suspected - their photo policy is a FARCE. |
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| (966896) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Fri Aug 13 17:25:36 2010, in response to PATH and Photography, posted by rocketdriver2019 on Fri Aug 13 17:18:00 2010. Newark station - - stand outside on NJT Inbound tracks (do not enter fare control), you will be able to get a photo of PATH trains as they relay south of this station. You can also walk down McCarter Highway (NJ Route 21) alongside the elevated right of way and take photos of PATH trains in storage.Journal Square - - exit station and walk one block south to the overpass, great photo spot. You can also walk alongside Newark Ave (heading west) where you will be able to get a decent shot. |
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| (966899) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by Jon Bell on Fri Aug 13 17:34:07 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Fri Aug 13 17:25:36 2010. There's a pedestrian bridge a couple of blocks west of Journal Square. It's completely enclosed in wire mesh, but you can still get a decent picture by putting the lens right up against the mesh, and cropping the picture afterwards.The bridge in the picture is Tonnelle Avenue. You can probably find this spot easily in Google Maps satellite view. 
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| (966903) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by Jon Bell on Fri Aug 13 17:40:35 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by Jon Bell on Fri Aug 13 17:34:07 2010. I looked on Google Maps. The pedestrian bridge is indeed visible, but it's more like a half-mile walk from the Journal Square station. |
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| (966905) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Aug 13 17:43:48 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Fri Aug 13 17:25:36 2010. Isn't Newark owned entirely by Amtrak, even the areas inside PATH fare control?I've also taken lots of pictures in Harrison without any problems. |
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| (966909) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by rocketdriver2019 on Fri Aug 13 17:52:22 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by Jon Bell on Fri Aug 13 17:40:35 2010. Thank you for the suggestion! I'll give that a try when I'm there. |
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| (966914) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by rocketdriver2019 on Fri Aug 13 18:02:44 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Aug 13 17:43:48 2010. Amtrak ownership of Newark may or may not be a moot point as I may or may not have an Amtrak employee joining my group on this trip (everyone joining me is in the transit industry). However, I will keep Amtrak's photo policies in mind regardless.As for Harrison, can you suggest good vantage points there that are off property? |
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| (966921) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Aug 13 18:30:19 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by rocketdriver2019 on Fri Aug 13 18:02:44 2010. Suggestion? Go take the pictures you want where you want. You're a damned TOURIST and shouldn't be expected to know. Smile, hand over your ID if requested, apologize profusely, and be nice. You'd be amazed at what you can get (and even keep) once you've had a proper gubbamint sniff. Seems the only people who ever have a problem are those who can't show a proper sense of decorum when asked WTF you're doing.Enjoy, mate ... Bienvenue au Nouveau York! A fellow foreigner-type individual from upstate Noo Yawk. :) |
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| (966923) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Fri Aug 13 18:32:08 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by rocketdriver2019 on Fri Aug 13 18:02:44 2010. As for Harrison, can you suggest good vantage points there that are off property?None - - the station sits over street and there are no openings. |
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| (966924) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Aug 13 18:33:01 2010, in response to PATH and Photography, posted by rocketdriver2019 on Fri Aug 13 17:18:00 2010. You could just screw the policy and just not get caught. It's not hard. Your best bet is to find a train of non-PA-5's and ride in the last car on a weekend when nobody is around. |
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| (966941) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by kp5308 on Fri Aug 13 19:12:11 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Fri Aug 13 17:25:36 2010. Newark station - - stand outside on NJT Inbound tracksI've yet to have a problem there unless I'm with subversive Bob :O) |
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| (966953) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by rocketdriver2019 on Fri Aug 13 19:52:04 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Aug 13 18:30:19 2010. I was thinking of taking a photo of one of my travel buddies with a train "happening" to be in the shot... then cropping it later. Damn those pesky trains...:-) |
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| (966955) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by rocketdriver2019 on Fri Aug 13 20:16:43 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Aug 13 18:33:01 2010. The thought crossed my mind. I hate going all cloak and dagger just to get some decent shots though and I do want to respect the law of whatever transit system is my subject, regardless of how ridiculous the law is. I guess we'll see how satisfied I am with the shots I get off property when the time comes.I noticed in the video that the trains go outside right before arriving at WTC... I don't suppose any of that is visible from the street (enough to photograph) is it? |
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| (966959) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by rocketdriver2019 on Fri Aug 13 20:22:03 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Fri Aug 13 18:32:08 2010. OK, thanks. |
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| (966962) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Fri Aug 13 20:24:38 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by rocketdriver2019 on Fri Aug 13 20:16:43 2010. I noticed in the video that the trains go outside right before arriving at WTC... I don't suppose any of that is visible from the street (enough to photograph) is it?Nope, most of the WTC site is wrapped by an blue wall plugging the Freedom Tower and the other buildings that will be built at the site. |
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| (966979) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Aug 13 20:43:38 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Aug 13 18:33:01 2010. Nice video! What camera did you use? I couldn't convince my camera to record anything more than blackness in that tunnel. |
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| (966981) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by rocketdriver2019 on Fri Aug 13 20:46:29 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Fri Aug 13 20:24:38 2010. Yeah I figured as much... would have been too easy :-) |
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| (966988) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Aug 13 20:53:53 2010, in response to PATH and Photography, posted by rocketdriver2019 on Fri Aug 13 17:18:00 2010. The permit process is a sham; I've known that for some time.My recommendation is to just take photos anyway. Remember, it's not actually illegal; it's just against their policy. They'd prefer you didn't, but you can't actually be arrested if you do. Unless it is illegal, in which case the law is unenforceable, though you'd have to actually get arrested and sue before you can get it overturned. I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice. In any case, it's not as though taking pics is impossible. I haven't had any problems doing it.   
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| (966997) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by rocketdriver2019 on Fri Aug 13 21:14:41 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by Nilet on Fri Aug 13 20:53:53 2010. Oh good grief... I read the post you linked to... that's kind of hilarious actually. It's clear they're purposely making it difficult to get a permit so no one asks for one.I find it astounding that when I visited London last year, London Underground could not have been more helpful in getting me a permit, despite the fact that their system has actually been attacked and has far more concerns about terrorism than PATH does. Dealing with their Filming and Photography department was an outright pleasure and I was able to take some great shots using that permit. Then we have PATH, a system that most non-New Yorkers don't even know about, being this anal about photography... despite it being accepted on systems that share their territory! Corporate nonsense at it's finest. |
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| (967002) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Fri Aug 13 21:32:20 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Aug 13 18:30:19 2010. And have several memory chips with you, if you have all the photos you want take that chip out and put in a new one this way IF you're requested to have your photos looked at they'll only see a blank shot, when in fact you'll still have all your photos. Karl M |
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| (967006) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Fri Aug 13 21:43:51 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Aug 13 18:33:01 2010. The way this PATH is acting I'm surprised they haven't blacked out the windows as paranoid as they are, it's time to come out from under the bed and let the people photograph this fine system. Karl M |
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| (967007) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Aug 13 21:44:32 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Fri Aug 13 21:32:20 2010. Well ... FWIW, I took pics on PATH, even chatted with a couple of engineers on various trips along the way - in each case, they locked their door as they got down to around 14th Street citing cameras watching THEM, and just said "be discreet and nobody will bother you."I did get asked by one of their "platform ambassadors" about what I was doing, showed them what I had taken and they said "don't do that anymore." Being from out of town is handy sometimes. :) |
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| (967008) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Aug 13 21:46:16 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by Nilet on Fri Aug 13 20:43:38 2010. The person who took the video told me it was a mid-range digital camera. |
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| (967009) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Aug 13 21:47:23 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by rocketdriver2019 on Fri Aug 13 20:16:43 2010. Someone defeating stupid policies can be a great source of entertainment. Give it a try, I hear it's a rush. |
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| (967010) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Aug 13 21:47:40 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by rocketdriver2019 on Fri Aug 13 19:52:04 2010. Don't be sneaky abut it and the worst that can happen is that you may have to convince them that you're not a television producer. Yeah, they don't like people taking pictures, they're itchy and twitchy. But they're not going to wrestle you to the tracks over it. Just being cool about it if you're challenged and show them ID so they know that you're from out of town, and at the very worst they'll tell you to stop.And chances are if they find out you're a "transit worker" they might even be nice to you. Amazing what one can get away with when they don't act like an asshole. :) |
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| (967011) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Fri Aug 13 21:47:44 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by Nilet on Fri Aug 13 20:53:53 2010. Great photos Nilet, too bad there isn't a large group of photographers to challenge this policy and descend the PATH system anyway and photograph and video everything in sight. Karl M |
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| (967012) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Aug 13 22:01:45 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by rocketdriver2019 on Fri Aug 13 21:14:41 2010. I've had quite a few pleasant experiences with PATH. They are extremely anal and like I said, "twitchy" ... but if you work with them and behave respectfully, and they KNOW what your "intent" is, they'll usually work with you as long as they aren't asked to violate their OWN rules. I *know* you can comport yourself properly amongst them. :) |
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| (967013) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by BMTLines on Fri Aug 13 22:02:30 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Fri Aug 13 21:43:51 2010. I'm surprised that they have not been sued over it yet. I know that the NPPA was thinking about challenging them at one time. I wonder if that is still in the works. The NYCLU, which is quite active on this issue, and even suing DHS over photos of federal buildings in lower Manhattan has also remained relatively quiet.I would love to see a court challenge that forces PATH to rescind the restrictions On another note people are reporting that the "No Photography" signs that used to be plastered all over Port Authority bridges are no longer as obvious. The PA website now states that photography is only prohibited at the toll plazas and not on the entire structure. Interesting... |
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| (967016) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by Danny at 103rd street on Fri Aug 13 22:12:44 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Fri Aug 13 17:25:36 2010. I got stopped by the PA Police even if I was not on PATH property at Newark station standing on the NJ transit side |
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| (967023) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Fri Aug 13 22:30:14 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by BMTLines on Fri Aug 13 22:02:30 2010. Maybe this whole no photography thing will eventually just fade from view ........ until another terrorist attack god forbids ever happens then we'll be back to square one again. Karl M |
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| (967024) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by rocketdriver2019 on Fri Aug 13 22:34:17 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Aug 13 21:47:40 2010. Yup, I've been confronted several times by various transit employees and security guards and have always treated whoever confronted me with the utmost professionalism.Only once did the situation escalate to the point where things got ugly. That was in Brussels, when a tram driver, under the erroneous impression that we weren't allowed to take tram photos in the public park we were in that was not even remotely owned by the STIB, attempted to grab my buddy's camera without any warning. He was demanding my friend delete the photo he took of the tram (in French, I had to translate), which my friend complied with (even though he didn't have to) and then the tram driver grabbed my friends camera and attempted, quite violently, to pull my friend (via his camera) to the tram where he was threatening to call the police. I ended up telling him in the sternest French I could muster that it was I who was going to call the police and have him charged with assault and attempted robbery. I've never seen a camera let go so quickly, nor have I ever seen a tram move so quickly. I've also never seen a transit employee so oblivious to the fact that his tram had a fleet number. Telling the next tram driver about the ordeal, he said it's not the first time that operator had run-ins with passengers and he wasn't the least bit surprised... and after radioing in our complaint to their control centre (because we were asking for a supervisor, but STIB supervisors are far and few between so they couldn't get one to us for something like this), he expressed how embarrassing it was that we had to encounter that operator, assured us that his behaviour should not be taken as indicative of Belgian transit workers (and we knew it wasn't, the majority of employees we encountered there were fantastic) and then graciously allowed us to film his tram while performing a wye operation at the end of the line. That's all to say I've dealt with the worst and know how to handle them ;-) But as I told Jersey Mike, I prefer to comply with the rules set out by a transit system, even if they're ridiculous, and if I can get decent photos off property I will. If I can't, then I'll consider alternatives like the "I'm a tourist approach". Truthfully if PATH were in the Greater Toronto Area I'd be a little more bold about this and prepare for a fight against this policy, but being that I'm on vacation in another city (and country) I just want to relax and enjoy myself without worrying about this nonsense... so I'm afraid I'm going to have to leave it to the New Yorkers to fight the good fight :-) |
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| (967027) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by BMTLines on Fri Aug 13 22:36:35 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Fri Aug 13 22:30:14 2010. Its not fading - in some cases it is getting worse. It seems that the authorities only understand protests and lawsuits (note Carlos Miller's fight against Metrorail).The PATH rule actually precedes 9-11 and I believe it was originally related to publicity rights rather than security. I would like to see a court challenge since I strongly believe that railroad photography is important to preserving a historical record. |
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| (967034) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by arnine on Fri Aug 13 22:46:02 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by BMTLines on Fri Aug 13 22:36:35 2010. I totally agree with you. I think it is quite sad that PATH is allowed to ban it :( |
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| (967038) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Aug 13 22:53:54 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by rocketdriver2019 on Fri Aug 13 22:34:17 2010. Nah ... don't worry about it ... you CLEARLY know the score and will be fine. Just live civil service anywhere, if you ask permission, you will be refused. As the saying goes, "better to apologize later than ask for permission." Heh.In all seriousness though, you shouldn't have any problems. Just expect to be challenged. You know what to do. And "parler en français serait le chemin (PATH) de la résistance!" S'il vous plait. :) |
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| (967048) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Aug 13 23:22:32 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by BMTLines on Fri Aug 13 22:36:35 2010. eternal vigilance... That's why we have Courts AND why ACLU IS our friend. |
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| (967053) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Fri Aug 13 23:37:03 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by Jon Bell on Fri Aug 13 17:40:35 2010. Cool I never saw that pedestrian bridge. Hopefully I can find it (and remember it) next time I'm in the area. I think I photographed from Tonelle Ave or another roadway bridge. It was quite the pleasant discovery.I definitely want more photos before the PA-5s take over everything. On my last trip to NY, I noticed there were a lot of them parked in the yard now! |
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| (967088) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by chuchubob on Sat Aug 14 08:49:23 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by kp5308 on Fri Aug 13 19:12:11 2010. You can get telephoto shots from the parking lot across the street from Newark Penn (adjacent to the NJT HQ parking garage). Also from the track 3 platform through the fence  and over the turnstiles from the track 1 platform.  
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| (967091) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Sat Aug 14 09:10:54 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Fri Aug 13 23:37:03 2010. That's one of my favorite photo spots in Jersey City.Newark Avenue & Senate Place |
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| (967108) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by chuchubob on Sat Aug 14 12:43:51 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by Danny at 103rd street on Fri Aug 13 22:12:44 2010. I got stopped by the PA Police even if I was not on PATH property at Newark station standing on the NJ transit sideSo did I. He told me to come through the turnstile to the PATH side. I didn't. His partner came through to the NJT side to be ready to pounce in case I was a phototerrorist. |
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| (967110) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by arnine on Sat Aug 14 12:54:31 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by chuchubob on Sat Aug 14 12:43:51 2010. Sounds like entrapment to me :( |
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| (969340) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Aug 21 02:03:47 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by Nilet on Fri Aug 13 20:53:53 2010. Right, if it's their policy, the worst they can tell you is to leave. |
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| (969362) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by r pansepcc on Sat Aug 21 07:01:35 2010, in response to PATH and Photography, posted by rocketdriver2019 on Fri Aug 13 17:18:00 2010. The new garage next to Harrison is nice. |
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| (969871) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Sun Aug 22 17:17:07 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by chuchubob on Sat Aug 14 12:43:51 2010. SMH at the PA paranoia. What makes their system so special they have to have such an outright ban in the first place? It's no different than NYC's subway stations. |
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| (969872) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Aug 22 17:19:52 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by Grand Concourse on Sun Aug 22 17:17:07 2010. It is what it is. |
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| (969904) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Aug 22 18:06:00 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Aug 13 17:43:48 2010. No, IINM Newak Penn is owned/controlled by NJ Transit. And it would be a pretty big stretch/long heated argument with the authorities to show that PATH's rules should apply within their fare control. |
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| (969934) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Sun Aug 22 18:39:17 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Aug 22 17:19:52 2010. Shame too, I would like to get a few pics of the PATH system. Some of their station locations are pretty nice. |
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Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Aug 22 18:51:03 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by Grand Concourse on Sun Aug 22 17:17:07 2010. reread some early I Asimov. He had port cops as the ultimate bad guys. |
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| (969978) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Sun Aug 22 19:45:03 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Aug 22 18:51:03 2010. Lol. |
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| (970035) | |
Re: PATH and Photography |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Aug 22 20:55:00 2010, in response to Re: PATH and Photography, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Aug 13 22:01:45 2010. I've had quite a few pleasant experiences with PATH. They are extremely anal and like I said, "twitchy" ... but if you work with them and behave respectfully, and they KNOW what your "intent" is, they'll usually work with you as long as they aren't asked to violate their OWN rules. I *know* you can comport yourself properly amongst them. :) I seriously doubt you've had any experiences at all (never mind pleasant) with the part of PATH that is being discussed, i.e. obtaining a photography permit. |
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