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Re: Grand Central Secrets |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Wed Jul 14 12:52:37 2010, in response to Re: Grand Central Secrets, posted by Brighton Private on Tue Jul 13 16:01:40 2010. no,that station was created for use by millionaires who had their own private cars&wanted to layup at the waldorf.the history channel had an updated history of it several months ago.I,ve been to the car apx.10 years ago&its not sealedoff/walled up.I walked the tunnels untill I reached it.I don`t recall if the track had been severed.IIRC that station was built around 1935. |
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Re: Grand Central Secrets |
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Posted by checkthedoorlight on Wed Jul 14 13:16:54 2010, in response to Re: Grand Central Secrets, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Jul 13 19:22:11 2010. Well then it just plagiarized a show which was on PBS at least 5 years ago. I even have the show on DVD, and it basically says the exact same (sometimes untrue) stuff..... |
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| (956515) | |
Re: Grand Central Secrets |
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Posted by arnine on Wed Jul 14 14:16:07 2010, in response to Re: Grand Central Secrets, posted by tunnelrat on Wed Jul 14 12:52:37 2010. Track not severed |
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| (956677) | |
Re: Grand Central Secrets |
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Posted by fisk ave jim on Wed Jul 14 20:28:36 2010, in response to Re: Grand Central Secrets, posted by blue8IRT on Tue Jul 13 19:02:36 2010. I'll tell you something that most folk don't know. GCT had its own morgue. See, years ago when there were hundreds of trains comming in from all over the country, every now & then there'd be a stiff on board & they needed a room where they kept the deceased on ice until the next of kin came from wherever to claim the remains.Back in those days, that could take several days. That room was in the lower level beyond tk 100 where the medical dept used to be ASFIK. |
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| (956682) | |
Re: Grand Central Secrets |
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Posted by arnine on Wed Jul 14 20:36:13 2010, in response to Re: Grand Central Secrets, posted by fisk ave jim on Wed Jul 14 20:28:36 2010. You know it is funny. One of the guys in track told me about that and I thought he was pulling my leg. Now I realize after reading this it is true. Wow. Thanks for the info. :) |
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| (956690) | |
Re: Grand Central Secrets |
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Posted by fisk ave jim on Wed Jul 14 20:51:02 2010, in response to Re: Grand Central Secrets, posted by arnine on Wed Jul 14 20:36:13 2010. Your most welcome!! |
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| (956888) | |
Re: Grand Central Secrets |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Thu Jul 15 11:52:54 2010, in response to Re: Grand Central Secrets, posted by arnine on Wed Jul 14 20:36:13 2010. When the IRT was built in front of GCT[42st] in was designed&built by NYC engineer`s.The lower level loop tracks have [had]provisions to connect into the lex.ave.sources:ERA,Middleton`s book on GCT,scientific american showing showing handdrawn tunnels&subway cars entering&exiting GCT. |
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| (956891) | |
Re: Grand Central Secrets |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Jul 15 12:03:39 2010, in response to Re: Grand Central Secrets, posted by TUNNELRAT on Thu Jul 15 11:52:54 2010. If you ever studied the loops, you find even that story a bity of urban legend.only place where the loop gets close is upper level loop where the escalators for Lexington GCT station cut thru, but that is at mezzanine level of subway station. |
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| (956967) | |
Re: Grand Central Secrets |
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Posted by Tunnelrat on Thu Jul 15 15:41:01 2010, in response to Re: Grand Central Secrets, posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Jul 15 12:03:39 2010. it was going to come in on the lower level,there is enough written evidense to prove this. |
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| (956984) | |
Re: Grand Central Secrets |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Jul 15 15:59:20 2010, in response to Re: Grand Central Secrets, posted by Tunnelrat on Thu Jul 15 15:41:01 2010. Written are urban legends, show and tell shows nothing.I know those loops every foot after foot. |
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| (956988) | |
Re: Grand Central Secrets |
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Posted by Tunnelrat on Thu Jul 15 16:10:43 2010, in response to Re: Grand Central Secrets, posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Jul 15 15:59:20 2010. Why are you arguing with me when all you have to do is read middleton`s book on GCT&beach`s report in scientific american.are both of these men wrong about this? FYI:I,ve walked both loop tracks several times as well as the GC shuttle track into the lex.line,there is no evidence of a tunnel conn.between the 2 systems.with all the construction on the loops over the last 10 years any trace had to be taken out.I,ll be signing off untill at least monday so don`t think i,m ignoring your replys. |
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| (956990) | |
Re: Grand Central Secrets |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Jul 15 16:13:28 2010, in response to Re: Grand Central Secrets, posted by Tunnelrat on Thu Jul 15 16:10:43 2010. Knowing whats on other side of the lower loop track walls confirms these stories as urban legends, just decent two stories under engineers room and you see.same at lexington ave side. |
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| (956993) | |
Re: Grand Central Secrets |
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Posted by Bill West on Thu Jul 15 16:21:16 2010, in response to Re: Grand Central Secrets, posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Jul 15 16:13:28 2010. We’re missing a time difference here.....Middleton pg 60, 2 suburban platform tracks extend straight south into the 42nd/Park intersection. They dropped quickly and went under the lower loop. The catch is that this is a 1903 Wilgus drawing from an earlier step in the design development. It shows a lower level suburban scheme only 8 tracks wide with a 125’ radius loop and is not at all what was finally built. The upper loop idea was not in the drawing yet and maybe suburban service with steam road cars hadn’t been settled on. This was pre subway and even 2 years later Gibbs at the LIRR was speculating about subway connections in choosing his cars even though we know that came to very little real connecting service. Bill |
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| (957012) | |
Re: Grand Central Secrets |
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Posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Thu Jul 15 16:59:55 2010, in response to Re: Grand Central Secrets, posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Jul 15 16:13:28 2010. This sounds like all those urban legends about the Atlantic Tunnel, with a walled off station complete with a steam locomotive, it's always fun to hear all these stories with variations over the years to make them more interesting. Karl M |
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| (957092) | |
Re: Grand Central Secrets |
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Posted by fisk ave jim on Thu Jul 15 20:20:14 2010, in response to Re: Grand Central Secrets, posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Jul 15 16:13:28 2010. There are many publications out there that states that one of the original plans was to connect the NYCRR to the IRT via a connection to the lower level loop. The connection was never built but there are maps & charts out there that show there they could punch thru a wall & make a connection.Next time anyone goes down there in the vacinity of tk's 101-103 on the lower level loop, you'll notice that the curve was too sharp to for 85 ft cars to negotiate, therefore out of service for several years The original intention was for shorter cars to fit there, thus the plusability to fit subway cars to travel. One misguided engineer tried to bring a set of M-2's around the 101-103 loop track & derailed a/c the cars would'nt fit!! Look closely around the platform edge on the south end of the platform where the curve starts, The scrape marks are still there. |
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| (957137) | |
Re: Grand Central Secrets |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Thu Jul 15 21:20:47 2010, in response to Re: Grand Central Secrets, posted by fisk ave jim on Thu Jul 15 20:20:14 2010. There are many publications out there that states that one of the original plans was to connect the NYCRR to the IRT via a connection to the lower level loop. The connection was never built but there are maps & charts out there that show there they could punch thru a wall & make a connectionIt helps to go back in time and see what was actually going on in the period from 1900 to 1904 when the first subway was being built. At that time Grand Central "Station" as it was then known was a single level operation. The New York Central and Hudson River Railroad was not opposed to a connection with the new subway but specified that any work be done on the IRT side of the property as they had plans to build a new two level railroad terminal. Accordingly William Parsons who was the IRT's engineer drew up new plans that provided for a four track connection from the original subway into Grand Central terminal and this was built as such. However the New York Central had a change of mind and the connection into the railroad terminal itself was never made. When the IRT Lexington Avenue Subway was built several years later it connected into two of the four track provisions in the original tunnel. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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