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| IRT train length (910075) | |
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| (910075) | |
IRT train length |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 10 17:55:39 2010 What were the lengths (in cars) of IRT trains over time? |
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| (910085) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by Union Turnpike on Wed Mar 10 18:48:25 2010, in response to IRT train length, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 10 17:55:39 2010. Spider-Pig: Around 1970 or so, the (3) operated with nine cars. That seemed like an odd amount.The (8) operated with four R12 cars. |
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| (910086) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Wed Mar 10 18:49:56 2010, in response to Re: IRT train length, posted by Union Turnpike on Wed Mar 10 18:48:25 2010. And don't forget the 8 cars on the 7, on weekends. |
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| (910097) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by fisk ave jim on Wed Mar 10 19:19:40 2010, in response to Re: IRT train length, posted by LuchAAA on Wed Mar 10 18:49:56 2010. Growin up under the Flushing line, late 50's-early 60's, I'd be walkin to school on Roosevelt Ave & always looked up to see whats runnin. Back then, they'd run 9 car trains M/F & 6 car trains on the weekends.Once & a while on a Monday morn, I'd see 6 R12's & 3 R 14's together to makeup a 9 car weekly consist. They went to longer lengths just before the '64 World's Fair. Lo-Vs & 39 World's fair cars were long gone by then. |
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| (910099) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by R42 4787 on Wed Mar 10 19:22:44 2010, in response to Re: IRT train length, posted by fisk ave jim on Wed Mar 10 19:19:40 2010. The 7 went to cars in 1962-63, prior to the delivery of R36s (R12/14/15/17 was being used at the time). As late as 1984, 8 cars ran on weekends. |
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| (910100) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Wed Mar 10 19:28:48 2010, in response to Re: IRT train length, posted by fisk ave jim on Wed Mar 10 19:19:40 2010. Yup.And the 8 car trains always had the famous "fan car" as the third car from the north motor(third car Flushing-bound). |
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| (910125) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by North-Easten T/O on Wed Mar 10 21:17:27 2010, in response to Re: IRT train length, posted by LuchAAA on Wed Mar 10 19:28:48 2010. No when they cut the train down from 11 cars to 8 they took the signal and a pair off from the end. |
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| (910127) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Wed Mar 10 21:20:47 2010, in response to Re: IRT train length, posted by North-Easten T/O on Wed Mar 10 21:17:27 2010. Hmm, but in the last days of the Redbirds on the 7, the single was always 3 North (by then, they weren't cutting the trains anymore). |
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| (910190) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Mar 11 00:35:38 2010, in response to Re: IRT train length, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Wed Mar 10 21:20:47 2010. True, but when 11s were cut to 8s, the 3 car butt on the north end which contained the non single was always what was cut. This was by the way, before the mini GOH and installation of A/C. |
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| (910191) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Mar 11 00:46:01 2010, in response to Re: IRT train length, posted by randyo on Thu Mar 11 00:35:38 2010. So -3(drop 3) was all they had to do to get a consist? No? |
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| (910193) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by R42 4787 on Thu Mar 11 00:54:44 2010, in response to Re: IRT train length, posted by randyo on Thu Mar 11 00:35:38 2010. By the mid 80s, the R33 WFs were regularly the third north car, which more or less became standard practice by the time the R36s got reworked with AC by 1984. Only in the mid 1990s was the practice of dropping the single car during the summer period standard (also ridership was lower due to no school). |
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| (910194) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Mar 11 00:55:14 2010, in response to IRT train length, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 10 17:55:39 2010. Back in the days of the Hi-Vs and Lo-Vs, IRT mainline expresses ran 10 cars M-F during "normal" hours. Midnights the expresses ran 5 cars as the 10 car consists were cut 5 X 5 for midnight service and added up again for AM service. Locals ran in 5 car and later 6 car consists with the exception of the Pelham Line which I am not sure of since I never rode that line very much at all. Weekend express services ran 7 cars and that included Fri late PM into Sat Mid and Sun PM into Mon Midnight. Since the cutting and adding pattern on Fri PM and Mon Midnight was different from the rest of the week, additional switchmen had to be on staff on those nights to lay up and put in the additional 3 car butts and solid trains. When the R types first started to appear on the various lines, mainline train lengths changed. The Pelham Line went to 8 Car trains of R-17s which were cut to 4 cars on midnights. In the late 1960s to mid 1970, Pelham went to 10 car trains with the arrival of more new cars. Since originally IRT platforms could not accommodate a full 10 car train due to the end doors extending past the platform ends, West Side services ( ! & 2) used 9 car trains until the platforms were lengthened in the late 1960s. Since Lex Av services needed full length trains, Lo-Vs had to remain there until the platforms were appropriately lengthened. In 1959, when West Side services were extensively modified, the Bway Lcl (#1) ran 8 car trains until the mid 1970s when train lengths were increased to 10 cars. The Lenox ( #3)retained 9 car trains the longest due to space restrictions in 148 St Yd caused by overhead building construction preventing 10 car trains from being laid up on most tracks. By utilizing yard space in 137 St Yd an Bway, the #3 has been able to be increased to 10 cars in recent years. |
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| (910196) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Mar 11 00:58:57 2010, in response to Re: IRT train length, posted by R42 4787 on Thu Mar 11 00:54:44 2010. I have to argue with you. Low ridership does not belong in any thread about the 7 line. |
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| (910228) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Mar 11 06:53:32 2010, in response to Re: IRT train length, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Mar 11 00:58:57 2010. Ain't it the truth!! Those 10 car Flushing trains were always packed in the rush hour. |
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| (910232) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Mar 11 07:55:04 2010, in response to Re: IRT train length, posted by randyo on Thu Mar 11 00:55:14 2010. I remember seeing and riding on 5-car 3 trains and 7-car 1 and 2 trains on Saturdays in the late 70s. |
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| (910249) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by sloth on Thu Mar 11 08:34:50 2010, in response to Re: IRT train length, posted by R42 4787 on Thu Mar 11 00:54:44 2010. once in awhile you'd see a pair of r33wf's in the middle of the train in addition to the single. |
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| (910288) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu Mar 11 12:28:41 2010, in response to Re: IRT train length, posted by sloth on Thu Mar 11 08:34:50 2010. Sucked for the C/R if they were in the middle and it was a hot day (assuming this was post-GOH). |
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| (910309) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by milan1834 on Thu Mar 11 13:52:52 2010, in response to IRT train length, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 10 17:55:39 2010. When I was growing up, express Lo-V and Hi-V consists were always 10 cars on weekdays, 7 cars (or sometimes 6) on weekends. West Side locals were always 5 cars. (Usually, these were Hi-Vs, but on weekends, some Lo-Vs were used.) In 1959, when the massive service changes were instituted, 8-car weekday 1 line trains and 6-car weekend consists were the rule.Pelham locals on weekdays were always 8 cars, regardless of whether they were R17s or older stock. On weekends, 5-car older trains and 4-car R17s were the rule until all platforms got extended. When R21s and 22s were introduced, as RandyO stated, the 9-car length was the rule on weekdays. However, the R-types on the Lex was always 10 cars. Flushing Line had a max 9-car length until some R17s (6500-6549) were moved over from the Main Line. When the WF cars started to appear in 1963, 11-car trains were introduced. |
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| (910319) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Mar 11 14:49:00 2010, in response to Re: IRT train length, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Mar 11 00:46:01 2010. Correct. |
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| (910320) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Mar 11 14:51:27 2010, in response to Re: IRT train length, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Mar 11 00:58:57 2010. I worked in the schedule office during that time and most lines ran a "light riding" supplement during the summer until the supplements were incorporated into a summer pick. The Flushing Line never ran light riding supplements but the R-33 single was cut out of the consists during the summer months. |
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| (910321) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Mar 11 14:52:39 2010, in response to Re: IRT train length, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Mar 11 07:55:04 2010. That was tried briefly including 5 car #6 trains and 7 car #4s. |
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| (910322) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Mar 11 14:54:39 2010, in response to Re: IRT train length, posted by milan1834 on Thu Mar 11 13:52:52 2010. When I attended Queens College in the 1960s, there was a brief period when the Flushing Line ran 10 car trains until the arrival of the R-36s when 11 car became the max. |
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| (910327) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Mar 11 15:20:49 2010, in response to IRT train length, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 10 17:55:39 2010. I appreciate all of the responses. I'm also looking for how it was when the IRT opened in 1904 and when they lengthened the platforms. IINM, they did the east side first, then the west. |
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| (910382) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by fisk ave jim on Thu Mar 11 18:32:42 2010, in response to Re: IRT train length, posted by randyo on Thu Mar 11 14:51:27 2010. Forgive a non TA worker for his ignorance;Whats a "light riding" supplement?? |
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| (910549) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Mar 12 01:07:13 2010, in response to Re: IRT train length, posted by fisk ave jim on Thu Mar 11 18:32:42 2010. During the summer and on selected holidays when a daily schedule is operated rather than a Sunday or Saturday schedule, the rush hour headways would be thinned out a bit since the anticipated riding on those days would be slightly less than a full daily schedule. |
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| (910581) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Mar 12 06:54:33 2010, in response to Re: IRT train length, posted by randyo on Fri Mar 12 01:07:13 2010. Ok, Thanks! |
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| (910584) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Fri Mar 12 07:48:29 2010, in response to Re: IRT train length, posted by randyo on Thu Mar 11 00:55:14 2010. I remember the 4 train having 7 car consists, on the weekends, in the early 80s. When they first started getting the R-62s and had a car shortage. |
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| (910669) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Mar 12 13:27:11 2010, in response to Re: IRT train length, posted by randyo on Thu Mar 11 14:52:39 2010. I vividly remember the conductor on those 5-car 3 trains being between the first and second cars n/b. |
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| (910699) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by Joe on Fri Mar 12 14:48:47 2010, in response to Re: IRT train length, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Mar 11 15:20:49 2010. I can't talk about 1904, but I bet a good description of express and local service on the original route (City Hall to 145 Street and Broadway) is available somewhere.---- In the 1945-1950 era on the Broadway-7th Avenue line, my recollection corresponds with RandyO. The 10-car expresses from Van Cortlandt Park to New Lots would have three lead cars in this formation: Motor, trailer, motor, so they could be cut off on weekends. The fourth car would be a motor, to lead on weekends. I don't recall how those 7 cars were set up, perhaps four motors and three trailers. ---- Our train would switch to the express track at 96th St, and 5-car locals (originating at either 137th Street or 145th & Lenox) would handle the local stations. My first recollection of platform lengthening is from 191st to 103rd in the late 1940's. I cannot give the reason, but I think there had been a restriction on opening the center doors of the first and tenth cars. The later big station lengthening job was caused by the plan to send Van Cortland Park trains to South Ferry on the local track. That led to the abandonment of the 91st Street station in 1959. Joe |
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| (910816) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Mar 12 20:34:37 2010, in response to Re: IRT train length, posted by Joe on Fri Mar 12 14:48:47 2010. The consists of the Hi-Vs on Bway was from S to N: MTMTMMMMTM. The cars were set up in 5 car units with the 3 motor 5 on the south and the 4 motor 5 on the north with the pilot motor on the south end of the 3 motor 5 and the pilot motor on the north end of the 4 motor 5 . During midnights the trains were cut 5 X 5 and all the trains had to add back up the same way they were cut so that the pilot motors (battleship/hand operated doors) would be at the ends of the trains. On Fri PMs, since 7 car trains were operated, the 3 north cars (MTM) were cut from all the trains that remained in service and also from the trains that would be put in for Sat AM service. That left the consists as 5 motors and 2 trailers MTMTMMM. That meant that the pilot motor on weekend Bway exp trains was always on the south end. Lo-V Lines like White Plains, Woodlawn and Bronx Pk (later E180) also kept their motor to trailer consists the same way, but since all the Lo-Vs were MUDC the return makeups weren't as critical as they were on Bway. Pelham was a slightly different animal since I believe it ran 7 car lcls, but since I very seldom rode Pelham in my younger days, I can't be sure what it operated. Maybe someone out there who lived in that part of the Bronx might recall. |
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| (910818) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Mar 12 20:36:47 2010, in response to Re: IRT train length, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Mar 12 13:27:11 2010. That was probably to make it easier to drum up the door controls at the end of the weekend when the 4 north cars were added back on for daily service. |
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| (910866) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Fri Mar 12 22:57:23 2010, in response to Re: IRT train length, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Mar 11 07:55:04 2010. I remember the 1, 2, 4, and 6 Trains operating seven car trains and the 3 and 5 Trains operating five car trains in 1977. |
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| (911043) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by NewLots to 242 on Sat Mar 13 13:12:15 2010, in response to Re: IRT train length, posted by randyo on Fri Mar 12 20:34:37 2010. I remember it exactly as you wrote with one or two little additions. From 1945 to 1952 I lived down the block from Livonia Avenue where the New Lots ran, and then moved to Eastern Parkway corner Kingston, and continued using the New Lots line daily until 1957. IIRC, in the years around '55, on the weekend the south terminals of the two West Side expresses were switched, so we got the Lo-Vs, New Lots to E180/Dyre. Some of them were only six cars. Possibly made up from two sets of threes cut from the 10's? That ended when the R21's came in in '56. |
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| (911290) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Mar 13 21:03:03 2010, in response to Re: IRT train length, posted by NewLots to 242 on Sat Mar 13 13:12:15 2010. I remember that weekend service pattern also. I don't know exactly when it took place, but by the time the Bway Exp was almost 100% R-21/22, the south terminal was Flatbush 24/7 but definitely by mid 1958. |
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| (911291) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Mar 13 21:03:28 2010, in response to Re: IRT train length, posted by NewLots to 242 on Sat Mar 13 13:12:15 2010. I remember that weekend service pattern also. I don't know exactly when it took place, but by the time the Bway Exp was almost 100% R-21/22, the south terminal was Flatbush 24/7 but definitely by mid 1958. |
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| (911331) | |
Re: IRT train length |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Mar 13 21:22:52 2010, in response to Re: IRT train length, posted by randyo on Fri Mar 12 20:34:37 2010. How many of the Hi-Vs kept their manual end doors until the end? |
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