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| Classic shot-R21/22 interior (896235) | |
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| (896238) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Feb 6 21:51:04 2010, in response to Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by R42 4787 on Sat Feb 6 21:38:23 2010. The bad old days. Things were seriously out of control by the mid-'80s. Grafitti, "deferred maintenance", Berie Goetz a gun...it was a difficult era... |
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| (896247) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by joe c on Sat Feb 6 22:34:25 2010, in response to Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by R42 4787 on Sat Feb 6 21:38:23 2010. Those cars must've been dark when they were bombed.til next time |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (896254) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by error46146 on Sat Feb 6 23:26:36 2010, in response to Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by R42 4787 on Sat Feb 6 21:38:23 2010. What amazes me is that I can barely see any litter in that photo except for that cup on the chair... |
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| (896256) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by Nilet on Sat Feb 6 23:31:19 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by error46146 on Sat Feb 6 23:26:36 2010. Heh. Graffiti > litter. |
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| (896260) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by Zman179 on Sat Feb 6 23:59:58 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by joe c on Sat Feb 6 22:34:25 2010. Actually they were very well lit. The flourescent lighting covers were clear. |
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| (896262) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Sun Feb 7 00:08:01 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by joe c on Sat Feb 6 22:34:25 2010. Damn, they wrote on the floors!Betcha if you sat still enough someone would write on your jacket! |
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| (896263) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by Zman179 on Sun Feb 7 00:10:16 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by Mr Mabstoa on Sun Feb 7 00:08:01 2010. Betcha if you sat still enough someone would write on your jacket!Don't laugh, I've seen it happen to a homeless guy once, got tagged while he was sleeping. Man, NYC was rough back in the 80's. |
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| (896264) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Sun Feb 7 00:13:42 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by Zman179 on Sun Feb 7 00:10:16 2010. LOL, get out of here!Wonder if they also get scratchitied? |
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| (896276) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by joe c on Sun Feb 7 03:20:42 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by Zman179 on Sat Feb 6 23:59:58 2010. Wow,i guess everything started to get better towards the mid to late 80's.til next time |
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| (896286) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Sun Feb 7 08:04:13 2010, in response to Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by R42 4787 on Sat Feb 6 21:38:23 2010. Amazing that we ever tolerated this kind of stuff.... |
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| (896291) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Feb 7 08:52:10 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by Mr Mabstoa on Sun Feb 7 00:13:42 2010. I remember seeing cars whose windows were totally obliterated by spray paint. If there was scratchiti (and I don't remember seeing any back then), it would be covered over. |
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| (896292) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Feb 7 08:52:39 2010, in response to Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by R42 4787 on Sat Feb 6 21:38:23 2010. Sickening. I remember it well. |
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| (896319) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Sun Feb 7 10:26:26 2010, in response to Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by R42 4787 on Sat Feb 6 21:38:23 2010. Classic ?Bill Newkirk |
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| (896322) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Feb 7 11:01:36 2010, in response to Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by R42 4787 on Sat Feb 6 21:38:23 2010. It was hard being a railfan in the 1970's. Our beloved trains were filthy and marred by graffitti and broke down frequently . There were major derailments and fires nearly every week. It was hard to watch for those of us who were fortunate enough to remember the days of the 1960's when we still had three divisions and looked forward with anticipation to the openning of Chrystie Street Line and all the new services.In the space of a few short years our subway system was dragged into the abyss. A victim of municipal neglect, public indifference ,vandalism and crime. If you went railfanning you tended to do it in the daylight hours usually in the morning and early afternoon, but it wasn't a whole lot of fun riding in a car where all the windows were covered in graffitti and angle deep in garbage. In the early 1980's the MTA and the NYCTA under the leadership of Richard Ravitch and David Gunn began the programs that enabled the system to begin the climb out of the pit. The rebuilding of the magnificent Redbirds for the #7 Line and the arrival of the new R-62's for the #4 Line, together with increased yard securiy and vastly improved car maintenance, car cleaning among other things laid the foundation for the great system that we have today. I know its not perfect but its light years ahead of what we had back then. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (896327) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Feb 7 11:28:08 2010, in response to Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by R42 4787 on Sat Feb 6 21:38:23 2010. This car was already retired by the time this photo was taken, right? |
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| (896335) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by Fred G on Sun Feb 7 12:02:41 2010, in response to Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by R42 4787 on Sat Feb 6 21:38:23 2010. Ouch!your pal, Fred |
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| (896341) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by arnine on Sun Feb 7 12:09:54 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Feb 7 11:01:36 2010. I agree with you |
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| (896343) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by Zman179 on Sun Feb 7 12:16:14 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Feb 7 11:01:36 2010. ...but it wasn't a whole lot of fun riding in a car where all the windows were covered in graffitti and angle deep in garbage.But it was a lot of fun riding in dark subway cars, especially with someone inside blasting a radio playing old school rap. |
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| (896348) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Feb 7 12:28:50 2010, in response to Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by R42 4787 on Sat Feb 6 21:38:23 2010. Ah, memories. By 1986, this is what they all looked like. Imagine a wider version with forward facing seats and that's what the R16's looked like :( |
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| (896349) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Feb 7 12:29:53 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Feb 6 21:51:04 2010. The Goetz thing was actually positive....it brought renewed attention to subway crime. |
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| (896350) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Feb 7 12:30:52 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by error46146 on Sat Feb 6 23:26:36 2010. Yeah, even though the cars were covered in grafitti, they were probably cleaned more often than now....including a mop, sweep and window wash at every terminal. |
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| (896351) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Feb 7 12:32:59 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Feb 7 11:01:36 2010. This is why there is such a dearth of photos from nycsubway.org from the late 70's and early 80's. Most that do exist were taken by employees.I was scared just taking a $10 Walkman on these trains. Forget a camera! |
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| (896354) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Feb 7 12:36:37 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by Newkirk Images on Sun Feb 7 10:26:26 2010. This was my view of the subway as a kid. I could never imagine a grafitti free system until I was a teenager. It's amazing that I still became a railfan. |
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| (896361) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Sun Feb 7 13:00:32 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by Zman179 on Sun Feb 7 12:16:14 2010. Wasn't Dinkins mayor then ? Karl M |
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| (896362) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by 9 local on Sun Feb 7 13:01:29 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Feb 7 11:28:08 2010. I'd think so. |
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| (896364) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Feb 7 13:02:13 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Sun Feb 7 13:00:32 2010. Koch. Dinkins took over after grafitti had been eradicated, in 1990. |
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| (896367) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Feb 7 13:04:31 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by 9 local on Sun Feb 7 13:01:29 2010. No, they ran like that, sometimes in even worse condition, at the end. |
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| (896368) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Feb 7 13:05:13 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by 9 local on Sun Feb 7 13:01:29 2010. Well theres no seat on the left |
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| (896369) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Feb 7 13:05:42 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Feb 7 13:04:31 2010. Although the lack of seat panels in the lower left hand corner leads me to believe this car was either under repair or it was JUST retired. |
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| (896373) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by 9 local on Sun Feb 7 13:11:06 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Feb 7 13:05:13 2010. Yeah, that's probably a good indication that it wasn't running anymore. I mean, trains ran in bad condition, but I don't think they ran seatless. |
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| (896374) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Feb 7 13:14:48 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Feb 7 13:05:13 2010. And what about the missing access panel to the door on the right? |
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| (896418) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Sun Feb 7 14:57:39 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Feb 7 13:14:48 2010. In the 80s when they were scrapping trains the old fashioned way, it was common for cars to be stored on the streets of SBK RY unguarded. Scrap thieves with shopping carts and even rail buffs with basic tools carted all easily removable recycable items before they put those fences up on Second and First avenues. Very likely where this picture was taken. |
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| (896424) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by R42 4787 on Sun Feb 7 15:46:13 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by BLE-NIMX on Sun Feb 7 14:57:39 2010. Based on the interior Newport cigarettes ad card and car condition, I can roughly estimate the date of the photo as c. 1988, shortly after the R21/22s were pulled from service and awaiting scrap. |
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| (896428) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Sun Feb 7 16:08:44 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by R42 4787 on Sun Feb 7 15:46:13 2010. I took many pictures during that time era. I can't see the number of the car behind the pole, I have alot of cars pictured before during and after retirement at that time |
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| (896431) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by JBar387 on Sun Feb 7 16:22:23 2010, in response to Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by R42 4787 on Sat Feb 6 21:38:23 2010. Looks like this one was on the way to the scrapper like her sisters. Notice the door pannel and motor are missing on the right. I'd say it is SBK yard. |
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| (896432) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Feb 7 16:27:01 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by BLE-NIMX on Sun Feb 7 14:57:39 2010. Exactly |
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| (896449) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by murray1575 on Sun Feb 7 16:50:52 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Feb 7 11:01:36 2010. Actually, the rebuilt Redbirds on the #7 were inferior to those on the other lines (2,4,5). The WF cars were overhauled (in-house) but a lot of the original SMEE technology was retained. The ML cars had much better dynamic brakes among other improvements which were added during GOH by M-K. I rode the R-33ML cars many times on the #2 and they ran well until the end. Too bad body rot forced their retirement. However you are correct in your other observations about the overall condition of the system. It is a far better system than we had years ago. Nowadays one of the biggest complaints is about all the GO's taking place at night and on weekends. At least the MTA is trying to keep the system in good repair. The bad thing is with all the ways the MTA is putting its hands in our pockets to pay for it some day we will all go broke. |
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| (896469) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Feb 7 18:32:51 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by murray1575 on Sun Feb 7 16:50:52 2010. At least the MTA is trying to keep the system in good repair. The bad thing is with all the ways the MTA is putting its hands in our pockets to pay for it some day we will all go broke.The MTA not only had to undo years of neglect but now has a system many parts of which will soon reach their 100th birthday if they haven't done so already. Anything that old that is in constant use (24/7) certainly need a good deal of repair and upkeep . Unlike other systems we don't shut down at night. This is after all "The City That Never Sleeps." Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (896486) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by irt1958 on Sun Feb 7 19:40:17 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by 9 local on Sun Feb 7 13:11:06 2010. I've seen seatless cars.Back in the early 80s on the Lex, I saw some missing seat panels that were taken out by vandals and thrown onto the tracks, from between the cars. This caused a grounded third rail (I saw a bright blue flash coming from somewhere followed by an explosion) which probably tripped some breakers. Service was stopped until the breakers were reset, as they were doing this, they we're searching for suspects; earlier I saw some kids running from the rear of the train and one of them had huge buck teeth, I told a transit worker (a short, stocky powerful looking dude) the incident and gave him a description. (the bucked toothed kid) and as they were walking by he grabbed him, and his friend. They didn't protest, and went with the workers quietly, good chance they were guilty. |
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| (896487) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Feb 7 19:49:04 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Feb 7 12:29:53 2010. The Goetz thing was actually positive....it brought renewed attention to subway crime.Especially the nut Goetz himself.
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| (896489) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Feb 7 19:50:21 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by Mitch45 on Sun Feb 7 08:04:13 2010. If it weren't for David Gunn, the cars would still look like that today. Just saw Transit Transit this month and they showed the new cars before having grafitti removed. Gouldn't believe how extensive it was. Just like in the 80s scrawled across the entire bottom panel of the car. We just don't see it anymore because it is cleaned off right away. But it is still a problem. |
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| (896492) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Feb 7 19:55:27 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Feb 7 11:01:36 2010. Back then in the early 80s, when you got on a train at one terminus, (especially the IRT) there only was 50% chance that you would get to the other terminus. Sometimes you were kicked off a train more than once during a single trip. The major problem was trains taken out of service due to door problems. It got so bad, that the passengers started revolting refusing to get off trains when asked to. The police had to be called delaying other trains even more. Other times they were just taken to the yards. It was a fun time. |
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| (896494) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Feb 7 19:57:40 2010, in response to Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by R42 4787 on Sat Feb 6 21:38:23 2010. Those straphanger handles are my favorite design of all time. I'd buy one of those if one were available. The only ones they sell are the ugly ones that replaced them that have no class. |
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| (896499) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Feb 7 20:23:24 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Feb 7 19:57:40 2010. They are nice aren't they? |
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| (896500) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by R42 4787 on Sun Feb 7 20:25:12 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Feb 7 19:57:40 2010. You mean the R17/21/22 straphangers? The Redbird strap holds I prefer. |
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| (896501) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Feb 7 20:27:29 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by R42 4787 on Sun Feb 7 20:25:12 2010. Thats what I agree with. All of them from R10 to R22 |
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| (896506) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by R42 4787 on Sun Feb 7 20:48:15 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by murray1575 on Sun Feb 7 16:50:52 2010. The #7 R36 cars got only a partial overhaul in the early/mid 80s, which was mostly cosmetic-AC installation, repaint in all white body and new beige/orange interior along with only very modest mechanical rework. In the early 90s (1991-93) the GE R36s (9558-up) finally got a decent rebuild, with RT-2 braking package installed, new doors, propulsion, controllers and significant reworking, with some parts coming from the mothballed R30s. However the WE R36s remained more or less intact down to the SMEE and WE CAM units. As a fact, R36 9400-01 at Corona now the only Redbird set in per se original condition, more or less, excluding AC refits, flooring and repainting.While most of the #7 R36s were overhauled in-house at CI, some were also done at Buffalo by GE. All the ML R33s were done in house too, at 207 Street. MK rebuilt all R26/28/29s. |
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| (896507) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by arnine on Sun Feb 7 20:49:37 2010, in response to Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by R42 4787 on Sun Feb 7 20:48:15 2010. Hmm thanks for info |
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| (896513) | |
Re: Classic shot-R21/22 interior |
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Posted by Neil Feldman on Sun Feb 7 21:16:39 2010, in response to Classic shot-R21/22 interior, posted by R42 4787 on Sat Feb 6 21:38:23 2010. I never realized some of the R21/22's got the "Orange Door", and beige interior treatment! Although that is horrible looking inside to which you can barely if even see outside that car! |
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