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| Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? (893503) | |
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| (894311) | |
Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by 33rd Street on Tue Feb 2 10:58:44 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by Union Turnpike on Mon Feb 1 21:11:34 2010. Did PATH provide service between 33d Street and 9th Street while the Sixth Avenue IND was out or were they affected also?The PATH lines were also affected. There was no service from 33rd to Christopher Street stations. |
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| (894318) | |
Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Feb 2 11:36:55 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by William A. Padron on Tue Feb 2 08:56:33 2010. They were also on the R16's, but they said "Via 6th Ave".Color was light green. |
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| (894335) | |
Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Feb 2 11:59:40 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Feb 2 11:36:55 2010. The R-32s had an MM sign on the multicolored route curtains that were installed in the front destination slot. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Feb 2 12:53:23 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by 33rd Street on Tue Feb 2 10:48:20 2010. I've been on that line. The food is worth the wait. |
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| (894370) | |
Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Feb 2 13:09:43 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by Union Turnpike on Mon Feb 1 21:11:34 2010. All the TA would have had to say was that the CC would be operating between 205 St and Stl and the rush hour D would be operating between Bed Pk and 34/6. That would have even been less confusion. |
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| (894439) | |
Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Tue Feb 2 17:23:56 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by ntrainride on Mon Feb 1 20:26:43 2010. IIRC: Express-on-local Hoyt, Metropolitan; then express QP and Roosevelt. It may have also stopped at Myrtle and/or Broadway. |
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| (894444) | |
Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Tue Feb 2 17:34:39 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by Avid Reader on Mon Feb 1 20:53:01 2010. Everything I've read said it ran straight from Continental to the Fair with no intermediate stop. AFAIK there is no station shell on the lower level. |
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| (894478) | |
Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Feb 2 18:14:02 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by Avid Reader on Mon Feb 1 20:53:01 2010. There was a lower level station at 75 Avenue? |
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| (894485) | |
Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Feb 2 18:25:20 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Tue Feb 2 17:34:39 2010. No, the yard tracks do run underneath the station. So WF trains would travel under the station. |
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| (894492) | |
Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by f179dj on Tue Feb 2 18:37:01 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Tue Feb 2 17:34:39 2010. That is correct.There is no station shell on the lower level of 75th Avenue. I switched at CTL for a long time and made many long relays to JYD along both walls. The lower level at 75th has only an emergency exit on the northbound to the upper level (under a staircase). O/W it is typical IND benchwall that was not added after the fact. |
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| (894500) | |
Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Tue Feb 2 18:46:41 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Feb 2 18:25:20 2010. The question was whether the WF train stopped at 75th Av. The answer was no, since there was no station. |
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| (894501) | |
Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Tue Feb 2 18:47:22 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by daDouce Man on Tue Feb 2 18:14:02 2010. No station, just tracks. |
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Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Tue Feb 2 19:18:50 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by daDouce Man on Tue Feb 2 18:14:02 2010. If only. If correctly configured, that would provide a whole load of local terminal capacity, far better than Continental. |
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| (894523) | |
Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Feb 2 19:29:43 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Tue Feb 2 18:47:22 2010. I thought so. |
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Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by Eric B on Wed Feb 3 16:19:44 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Feb 1 09:28:50 2010. Like this one: ?
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Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by italianstallion on Wed Feb 3 19:49:01 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Feb 1 21:20:03 2010. TA Dept. of Redundancy:"Please cooperate with us while we work around the clock on a 24-hour basis." |
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| (895000) | |
Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by Broadway Buffer on Wed Feb 3 20:55:36 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by randyo on Tue Feb 2 13:09:43 2010. With the IND's letter system, were they decided based on trunk route or their destination or both? For example, the C operating from Wash Hts via 8 Av is technically wrong, but a C from Bedford Pk via 6 Av would be correct according to how the original system was set up? |
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Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by 33rd Street on Wed Feb 3 21:09:23 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by Broadway Buffer on Wed Feb 3 20:55:36 2010. I'm going to answer this to the best of my ability. The way the IND had the Wasington Heights and Concourse lines was simple. The A (express) and B (local) when the LCL terminated at Wash Hts-168 when the EXP terminated at Inwood-207. The C (LCL) and D (EXP) when the LCL terminated at BPB or 145 (depending on the time of day) when the EXP terminated at Norwood-205. This pattern of course lasted till March of 1998 when the B and C lines swapped northern terminals.If anybody could correct me, please do so. |
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Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Feb 4 10:58:51 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by Broadway Buffer on Wed Feb 3 20:55:36 2010. Yes:A/AA: Washington Heights - 8th Avenue Express/Local B/BB: Washington Heights - 6th Avenue Express/Local C/CC: Concourse - 8th Avenue Express/Local D/DD: Concourse - 6th Avenue Express/Local E/EE: Queens - 8th Avenue Express/Local F/FF: Queens - 6th Avenue Express/Local Neat system, isn't it? Pity it wasn't particularly relevant to operations. |
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Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Feb 4 19:38:48 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 1 22:00:09 2010. The funny thing is, Queens-Kew Gardens, Jamaica-Parsons Blvd and Jamaica-169th St. signs survived. I have those in both bulkhead and side sign varieties. Queens-Roosevelt Av is another story. It's another needle in a haystack along with World's Fair. Not to mention Concourse-Fordham Rd. |
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| (895413) | |
Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 4 20:11:38 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Feb 4 19:38:48 2010. Those would all be much older signs. FWIW, quite a few of the arnines I worked had brand new oilcloth on quite a few cars in 1970 that had nothing unusual on them. So I suppose they had to be changed out every few years ... |
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Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Feb 4 22:35:42 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by 33rd Street on Wed Feb 3 21:09:23 2010. As originally intended,the A/AA combination was Wash Hts 8 Av, B/BB was Wash Hts 6 Av, C/CC was Concourse 8 Ave and D/DD was Concourse 6 Av regardless of the south terminals or branch lines. Single letters were expresses and double letters were local with single letters being assigned to trains that ran express anywhere along their routes. That's why the E carried a single letter even though it was local in Manhattan since it ran express in Queens. The new MTA is throwing the old route designations out the window due to its desire to do away with double letters. |
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| (895636) | |
Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Fri Feb 5 10:57:37 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Feb 4 19:38:48 2010. And also, as rarities seen, "Brooklyn Crosstown", "Bronx Express" and "Houston-Essex". They were the ones seen on the very earlier snapshots of the R-1 (or R-4) cars at the 207th Street Yard during the 1930's.Could it also be possible that the R-1/9's may have had a destination for "Fulton-Utica Av."? That reason is because I remember seeing one photo of them (from a possible opening day celebration of the Fulton Street Line) with its front terminal roll sign set in a way that might had suggest that, by seeing just a little peak the bottom of its lettering viewed at the top of the glass. -William A. Padron ["Lafayette Ave."] |
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Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Feb 6 16:52:11 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by William A. Padron on Fri Feb 5 10:57:37 2010. According to info on the IND Fulton St Line, there were some rush hour A trains that terminated at Utica during the time that Rockaway Av was the terminal. That would be the reason for Utica signs. I am only guessing but the Houston/Essex sign might have been meant for a possible station at Essex St on the Houston St Line had the middle tracks at 2 Av been extended through to So 4 St. At the very end of the two tunnels S/O 2 Av, the tracks start to spread and the is what appears to be the start of a trackway for either a diamond Xover or a middle track. I have heard that it was actually for a middle track for a 3 track station at that point similar to Bedford/Nostrand on the G where trains from either uptown Manhattan or Brooklyn could be turned back, thus the reason for the sign. |
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Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by 33rd Street on Sat Feb 6 17:01:38 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by randyo on Sat Feb 6 16:52:11 2010. Building a station at Houston & Essex would have made any sense. |
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Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Feb 7 09:04:28 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 4 20:11:38 2010. That side curtain I acquired with those interim Queens terminals is pristine. Either it cleaned up exceptionally well or it came from a car that was assigned to 207th or Concourse Yard. |
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Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 7 15:40:18 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Feb 7 09:04:28 2010. Or maybe it was a spare that never got taken out of the box ... |
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Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by peppertree5706 on Mon Feb 8 17:28:07 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Feb 1 11:56:55 2010. Better than inventing a "PP" line. Or even a "P". |
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Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Mon Feb 8 18:17:21 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Mon Feb 1 12:41:13 2010. FLATBUSH FATZ! |
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Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 10 02:54:39 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by italianstallion on Wed Feb 3 19:49:01 2010. Around the clock is technically a 12 hour basis. :-) |
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Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Wed Mar 10 09:13:00 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Feb 2 11:59:40 2010. I think one of the "photos from today's date in history" on nycsubway.org from yesterday had a Steve Zabel shot from 1973 of a pair of R-32s in CIY with the sign set to "MM". If anyone wants to look for it, be my guest. |
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Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Wed Mar 10 09:20:30 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Feb 1 11:54:48 2010. Is that T/O trying to hide his face? Even 40 years ago, they were paranoid LOL |
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Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Mar 10 10:23:41 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Feb 1 21:21:06 2010. It *says* 6th Avenue on it... so........Either you are it are wrong. ROAR |
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Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Mar 10 10:24:39 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Feb 1 11:54:48 2010. LION is surprised to see 27/30s on the IND in those days. Him thinks that was not done either.ROAR |
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Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Mar 10 11:40:27 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Feb 1 21:21:06 2010. I know. I was referring to the post where someone said they had seen a picture with the sign AT 34th St. |
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Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Mar 10 11:41:22 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Wed Mar 10 09:20:30 2010. My guess was that he was shielding his eyes from the flash. |
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| (910000) | |
Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Mar 10 12:10:12 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by peppertree5706 on Mon Feb 8 17:28:07 2010. With a yellow strip map route color!!! :-) |
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Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Mar 10 14:21:42 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Mar 10 10:23:41 2010. A train "called" the DD operated in 1962 due to the closure of the 6th Av Line between 34/6 and W 4 St but in contradiction of the train signs it operated via 8th Av rather than 6th. A Concourse express operated in rush hours between Bed Pk and 34/6 but it also had an incorrect designation being called a "C/8 Ave Express" even though it operated via 6th Av. The proper thing to do would have been to call the 205 - Stl service the CC and the Bed Pk - 34/6 the D but typical of the incompetent and know nothing planners that existed in the TA and continue to exist in today's MTA, misnamed trains operated during that period. |
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Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Wed Mar 10 14:54:29 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by randyo on Wed Mar 10 14:21:42 2010. Well, they didn't do the correct thing according to the design of the lettering system, but they did label the trains in such a way to make it obvious that something was up. |
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Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by Union Turnpike on Wed Mar 10 16:36:02 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Wed Mar 10 14:54:29 2010. Didn't the 1962 (DD) actually run Norwood-205th Street to Stillwell Avenue via CPW/Eighth Avenue Local and Houston Street while the 1962 (C) ran Bedford Park Boulevard to 34th Street-Herald Square via CPW/Sixth Avenue?I believe the (BB) ran all day from 168th Street to 34th Street-Herald Square during this two week period in December 1962. I think the (F) also operated in two sections. I'm not sure if PATH was affected while the Sixth Avenue IND> was closed from 34th Street-Herald Square to West Fourth Street-Washington Square. |
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| (910061) | |
Was There Ever An Actual (QQ) ? |
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Posted by Union Turnpike on Wed Mar 10 16:46:53 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Mar 10 12:10:12 2010. Hello Subchatters: Maybe another dumb question but in 1960 when letters were extended to B.M.T. lines and began to replace the numbers, was there ever an actual (QQ) (if only briefly) or was it the (Q) (QB) and (QT) and would anyone know what the typical operation was - did all three lines ever operate together or did the (Q) (QB) and (QT) operate separately by day part?Thanks I think the (QT) ended when the (QJ) began. |
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Re: Was There Ever An Actual (QQ) ? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Mar 10 17:07:06 2010, in response to Was There Ever An Actual (QQ) ?, posted by Union Turnpike on Wed Mar 10 16:46:53 2010. No. The logical use of QQ was for the QT, but the original BMT route letters assigned QT to this run. My guess is that the Brighton line service pattern just did not fit into the original double letter meaning. There were three distinct services, one local (QT), one express (Q) and one which was local, but skipped many stations the QT did (QB). |
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Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962? |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Mar 10 17:29:33 2010, in response to Re: Did The (DD) Briefly Run In 1962?, posted by Union Turnpike on Wed Mar 10 16:36:02 2010. The AA and BB service patterns were reversed during that period. The AA ran only during rush hours and the BB ran only during non rush just the opposite of the normal service patterns. The F at that time normally terminated at Bway/Laff except late nights, midnights and weekends when it terminated at 34/6. During this emergency, the F terminated at 34/6 24/7. As I mentioned in my latest and several earlier posts regarding this subject, Trains marked C and DD did run as you indicated, but based on the IND lettering system, they were both misnamed. |
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| (910078) | |
Re: Was There Ever An Actual (QQ) ? |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Wed Mar 10 18:18:24 2010, in response to Re: Was There Ever An Actual (QQ) ?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Mar 10 17:07:06 2010. In BMT terms, Brighton was 1 and riders determined how it was running based on marker lights. The Brighton service didn't match the IND concept so when letter designations were assigned around 1960, the express was called Q (like the IND). The locals became QB (Brighton via bridge) and QT (Brighton via tunnel).Myrtle-Nassau got M because it was an express in Brooklyn; N was an express in Manhattan; LL and RR fit the pattern, as did TT. MJ was a real oddball because the "J" stood for "Jay" instead of "Jamaica" as it did for JJ, QJ and RJ. |
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Re: Was There Ever An Actual (QQ) ? |
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Posted by BMTLines on Wed Mar 10 18:23:43 2010, in response to Re: Was There Ever An Actual (QQ) ?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Mar 10 17:07:06 2010. Essentially there was one express - the Q operated express in both Manhattan and Brooklyn.The QB and QT were the locals. The only difference was that the QB operated via bridge and the QT via tunnel but aside from that they made all local stops. The QB operated weeknights and weekends and the QT operated weekdays - they never ran at the same time. |
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Re: Was There Ever An Actual (QQ) ? |
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Posted by Union Turnpike on Wed Mar 10 18:40:15 2010, in response to Re: Was There Ever An Actual (QQ) ?, posted by BMTLines on Wed Mar 10 18:23:43 2010. Thank you. |
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Re: Was There Ever An Actual (QQ) ? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Mar 10 18:58:43 2010, in response to Re: Was There Ever An Actual (QQ) ?, posted by BMTLines on Wed Mar 10 18:23:43 2010. Right, but calling both QQ would be confusing, so they came up with QT and QB, which took the meaning of double lettered routes into a new area. |
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Re: Was There Ever An Actual (QQ) ? |
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Posted by sfnyc on Wed Mar 10 20:15:44 2010, in response to Re: Was There Ever An Actual (QQ) ?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Mar 10 18:58:43 2010. As someone who grew up in the 60's on the Brighton line and lived between a local and express stop (Parkside Ave and Prospect Park), I can shed some light on this.There was never a QQ or Q train. The Q train came into existence much later--either in the late 70s or early 80s. In the 60s, there was the QB and the QT. The QB was the Brighton Express and operated during the week over the Manhattan Bridge. The QT was the Brighton Local and operated all of the time and went through the tunnel and then made local stops along Broadway. When the D was introduced to the Brighton Line sometime in 1964/65, it became the Brighton Express and replaced the QB. I remember it well as the R9 cars were a complete change for the Brighton line. The QJ was introduced at this time as the Brighton Local and went through the tunnel and traveled the Broad St/Chambers St. loop. I think its destination was Jamaica, but I could be wrong on that. During morning rush hours to Manhattan, there was a QB special train that traveled up Broadway. It also ran in the evening rush hour to Brooklyn. There were only a few trains scheduled. Some time in the 70s, the M was introduced on the Brighton line and it replaced the QJ. My brother is on this site also and perhaps his recollection is better than mine. |
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Re: Was There Ever An Actual (QQ) ? |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Wed Mar 10 20:55:22 2010, in response to Re: Was There Ever An Actual (QQ) ?, posted by sfnyc on Wed Mar 10 20:15:44 2010. Your recollection of the 1960s service is incorrect. The Q was the Brighton express; QB (via bridge) and QT (via tunnel) were the locals, respectively. When the Chrystie connection went into operation in 1967, the Q was replaced with the D. QJ was a local via tunnel to Nassau Street and Jamaica. The QB was a peak-direction local to/from 57/7 in Manhattan. The QJ was replaced by the M in 1972.
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Re: Was There Ever An Actual (QQ) ? |
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Posted by sfnyc on Wed Mar 10 21:11:55 2010, in response to Re: Was There Ever An Actual (QQ) ?, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Wed Mar 10 20:55:22 2010. thanks for the clarification. I stand corrected. |
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